Institutionlized Churchs

[greenef]

Hi All,
Act 16:4 Now, as they went through the cities, they give over to them the decrees to maintain, which have been decided upon by the apostles and elders who are in Jerusalem."

Can someone explain the above passage of scripture to me? It sounds a lot like institutionalizing of Churches.
Is not this one of the main criticisms of the "Church movement" by the "Universalism movement"? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of this claim against the "world of Christendom".

[JulieTang84]

Great question and observation Greenef.


This answer will be somewhat short as I am about to go to "Church" myself.


Jesus spent a lot of time denouncing the religious practices of the "churches" of the time. The were steeped in tradition and the "law" according to their minds prevailed. A classic example is when a group of them were about to stone a woman for an adulterous act she was caught doing.


They were "justified" according to the law by stoning her, yet Jesus asked a simple question: "let the one who is without sin, throw the first stone" This was an utter check-mate and they all walked away. Jesus told the woman that he came to "save" the world, not to "condemn" it.


So I believe the Scripture that you read and quoted, refers to the need to "remove" tradition from the churches and replace with what Jesus emphasized during his ministry. Loving God and loving everyone else as oneself. He also taught that the Kingdom of God is within ourselves and that it is only through Faith, Hope and Love that this fact is revealed. Faith, Hope and Love - TRUST.


These was a very simple message. Jesus had removed the barrier of sin, having died for all. The religious rulers hated Jesus for this, and the death and hardships that the many apostles of Jesus  endured gives credence to the fact that breaking tradition was not easy. Still not easy today.


Well that is my take.....


Love Julie :HeartThrob: [size=78%] [/size]

[jbertonbounds]

Act 16:4 - As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem. [ESV]

It seems that there was some level of organization among the churches, which, in itself, is not a bad thing.  This is evidenced by the fact that there were decisions made and passed on.  We aren't told the nature of these decisions, but they weren't necessarily organization-governing decisions.  They may have been decisions that churches made on how to best minister to the poor, for example.  In such a case, Paul may have been passing information along for precedent purposes.  For example, he may have said something like this: "In Jerusalem we ministered this way, and it worked really well there."  If done right, organization can prove to be hugely beneficial.  Where the modern "church" has gone wrong is in the fact that there are many organizations which teach many different doctrines - doctrines of man, varying only by the mix-ratio of truth with lies.  At the time of Paul's writings, I suppose the doctrine of the church as preached by Paul was pretty much pristine, although Paul had to fight to keep it that way because there were occasionally people who would try to mix pagan beliefs in with the truth.

[bushy]

Hi All,
Act 16:4 Now, as they went through the cities, they give over to them the decrees to maintain, which have been decided upon by the apostles and elders who are in Jerusalem."

Can someone explain the above passage of scripture to me? It sounds a lot like institutionalizing of Churches.
Is not this one of the main criticisms of the "Church movement" by the "Universalism movement"? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of this claim against the "world of Christendom".

The chapter before this tells about the decision of the apostles and elders to free everyone of all but a few essentials because some men were teaching that in order to be saved one had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses and probably others rules too. Now days, as then the problem with churches is religion and controlling people with endless rules and what to believe or not believe. Even those essentials that they laid down then probably don't apply today like eating things offered to idols and things strangled. Those were probably because of offending people at that time.

[watchman1706]

It's important to remember that the most by far of new converts were Jews living in gentile cities who had themselves been following strict traditions already. Christianity was new and the Apostles were still receiving inspirational instructions from God himself. So they had to overcome old traditions and spread new instructions to many people living across the known world, living in isolated pockets, cut off from the church in Jerusalem.
Just like the new Christians had to fight the inclusion of Jewish traditions dictating the church practices, like circumcision, the natural inclination of man is to revert to his old traditions given to isolation, such as the Israelites and the golden calf, so the apostles had to instruct in a manner that the instructed would understand. They already were traditional in their lifestyles and the way they thought.
All they had seen previously was the synagogue and strict edicts. Perhaps the apostles found this the most effective method.

:2c: :Chinscratch: :dunno2:

[T-Bone]

To: Julie Tang 84

Regarding your mention of "loving God and loving everyone else as ourselves" , I always thought that was the two main pillars of the New Testament until I read Gary Amirault's article in Tentmaker.org titled "The Two Pillars of the New Testament" that has shed new light on this thought . You may want to check it out. Otherwise , I agree with all of the other posts as to why these decrees were necessary. All good points and I think quite accurate assessments.

[Seth]

Hi All,
Act 16:4 Now, as they went through the cities, they give over to them the decrees to maintain, which have been decided upon by the apostles and elders who are in Jerusalem."

Can someone explain the above passage of scripture to me? It sounds a lot like institutionalizing of Churches.
Is not this one of the main criticisms of the "Church movement" by the "Universalism movement"? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of this claim against the "world of Christendom".

I don't think the universalism movement should criticize the idea of fellowship combined with order. The Bible talks about meetings, and the Apostles proscribe certain best practices. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The most important things is that it all be done in TRUTH, or the fruit goes sour quickly.

[eaglesway]

the decrees, as I recall, were given in order to prevent the law from being wielded over the new Gentils just coming into the gathering of believers.

They were few and simple

Abstain from fornication,
from idolatry,
from things strangled?(perhaps related to pagan practices related to witchcraft/sacrifice),
from blood(shedding blood?)

These decrees were for the purpose, i believe, of establishing some basic safety of things that are immediately and irrevocably destructive to maintaining a walk of faith in Christ, so that jewish believers(most of the first leaders of the fellowship were jewish) would also hav a clear understanding that they were not to weigh in on the gentiles with the requirements of the law, which many of them kept in various measures(which was "OK" but unnecessary and not to be put on any who were already free from law).

[rosered]

 
  wow , good posting to all  , great  post John /EW !
  I believe the main   thing the  the apostles were   sharing going from city to city   was  trying to  show  everyone   that   serving the Lord now was going to be done in SPIRIT  and truth

and not serving God   in the flesh anylonger
by those  exisiting   blood and goat sacrifices and high priest  services  etc   and idol worship   etc   , like  those above posts also  touched on
   this new LAW  they were sharing was going to be  constrained by the LOVE FOR CHRIST dwelling within them  , being thankful and  having faith  in what God has done for  man , not what man can do for God  ,  Paul confessed ,he thought killing off the new christians was doing God a service  , but saw how blind he was  when the scales fell off his eyes   after His encounter with Jesus the Lord  on the road to Damascus   when the LIGHT had shone  on him personally /individually



We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 


2Cr 5:9  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 


2Cr 5:10   For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 


2Cr 5:11   Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 
2Cr 5:12  For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. 


2Cr 5:13   For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. 
2Cr 5:14   For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 


2Cr 5:15   And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 


2Cr 5:16   Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 


2Cr 5:17   Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 

I believe that the Spirit of God though Christ was  leading them  and sharing the goodnews of the Lord Jesus Christ     to change  these  folks lives and minds and hearts towards God the Father in the Spirit to worship  and please Him  in the truth and setting them free from those dead works .

[eaglesway]

Absolutely!