You Reject Damnation Because You Hate God

[aaronclark1989]

Sometimes when I criticize the damnationist material that fundies spread one of the things I have heard say to me is the reason you reject  Hell or label the god who put forth such a pathetic system an evil bastard is because you hate God and want to oppose him and of course my response is I dont hate or oppose God I hate and oppose what you present as God and that the fact that you call a being who condemn certain people to eternal torment for any reason and then call it a loving and wise God that is the problem.

Religion can disguise love into hate and wisdom into foolishness.

[JulieTang84]

"Religion can disguise love into hate and wisdom into foolishness."

But what it cannot do is disguise lies as truth. Their fruits give them away.


Mat 7:15   "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Mat 7:16   By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Mat 7:17   Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Mat 7:18   A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Mat 7:19   Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Mat 7:20   Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

You know Father has a hand in their fruit, because they are absolutely blind and deaf to the truth, no matter how hard one tries to explain or present it.

All we can do is Love them and pray that we have the patience with them as Father has with us.

All in Father's time.

Love Julie :HeartThrob:

[aaronclark1989]

This one guy keeps saying I am hateful towards Christians because I criticize their damnation beliefs. I give fundies crap on their damnation material just like Yeshua gave crap to the Pharisees for they nonsene material. Also this guy just like the Pharisees responses to someone who criticizes their as hating Christians and hating God. :mock:

[jbertonbounds]

Sometimes when I criticize the damnationist material that fundies spread one of the things I have heard say to me is the reason you reject  Hell or label the god who put forth such a pathetic system an evil bastard is because you hate God and want to oppose him and of course my response is I dont hate or oppose God I hate and oppose what you present as God and that the fact that you call a being who condemn certain people to eternal torment for any reason and then call it a loving and wise God that is the problem.

Religion can disguise love into hate and wisdom into foolishness.

Absolutely true!

[jbertonbounds]

Hey, I do hate the god that they paint an image of, but that's not the true image of our god, Yahweh.  Yahweh is love!  And in the end, love wins out over death.

But don't forget that many believers believe in ET because that's all they have ever been taught, and even their bibles [seem to] teach it!  And most of the believers I know (ETers) do good works for the kingdom's sake.  They will receive a reward for their good works, because they will not be judged on the basis of whether they believed, but on the basis of their works, whether good of evil!

Granted, I have had some "Christians" be rude, judgmental, and even condemning to me over the issue of UR.  But my job is to put out the truth, and the truth scares them because their's is a gospel of fear.  It's all they know of Yah.  My proper response to that is to continue to hold them in high esteem as Yah's children whom he loves!  I can only do that through the power of Yahweh.

Praise the name of Yahweh!

[Seth]

Sometimes when I criticize the damnationist material that fundies spread one of the things I have heard say to me is the reason you reject  Hell or label the god who put forth such a pathetic system an evil bastard is because you hate God and want to oppose him and of course my response is I dont hate or oppose God I hate and oppose what you present as God and that the fact that you call a being who condemn certain people to eternal torment for any reason and then call it a loving and wise God that is the problem.

Religion can disguise love into hate and wisdom into foolishness.

To me, anything other than a scriptural argument gets nothing much more than "nuh-uh." If they want to oppose you scripturally, they will lose if you have all your scriptural support together. When you do that, they will derail and get into non-scriptural stuff like that.

[jabcat]

Some of kindest, lovingest, closest to Jesus people I know believe in et in hell.  They don't like it, they may even try to soft-sell it because they're uncomfortable with it, but they believe it's what the Bible teaches, so they believe they must be faithful.  I'll talk beliefs with them here and there to a point, but I truly don't believe in badgering them, despising them, or treating them anything less than brothers and sisters in Christ - with whom we're told to "let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.." and to "speak the truth in love".   

I know there are "militants" who believe in ET that would damn one to hell in a heartbeat - and enjoy it.  However, I truly believe that's the exception, and I've known several thousand believers in eternal hell, interacted with them intimately, broke bread and worshiped together - and we worshiped, believed in, and trusted the same Jesus.  We just had varying degrees of being given to see through each of our veils .    It's not up to me to say if and who, but honestly, I believe many who believe in ET have been given the faith to believe on Jesus as Savior and have that personal relationship with him;  whereas, many/some who believe in universal salvation only/mainly do so on a "doctrinal"/philosphical level, and don't really know Him intimately.   I guess different people have different calling, but I personally disagree with hostile debates and challenging people to arguments - some discussion, reasoning, then agreeing to either find common ground or amicably go our separate ways, seems scripturally sound according to my understanding.  Still, those are just my understandings, as we all look through a glass darkly.   

[JulieTang84]

Hey, I do hate the god that they paint an image of, but that's not the true image of our god, Yahweh.  Yahweh is love!  And in the end, love wins out over death.

But don't forget that many believers believe in ET because that's all they have ever been taught, and even their bibles [seem to] teach it!  And most of the believers I know (ETers) do good works for the kingdom's sake.  They will receive a reward for their good works, because they will not be judged on the basis of whether they believed, but on the basis of their works, whether good of evil!

Granted, I have had some "Christians" be rude, judgmental, and even condemning to me over the issue of UR.  But my job is to put out the truth, and the truth scares them because their's is a gospel of fear.  It's all they know of Yah.  My proper response to that is to continue to hold them in high esteem as Yah's children whom he loves!  I can only do that through the power of Yahweh.

Praise the name of Yahweh!

Absolutely beautiful JB  :HeartThrob:

It's not about them but about us. They do not have the light and are not responsible nor accountable for the darkness in which they live.

We, too are not responsible for the Light in which we have been give, but Father will surely hold us accountable on how bright we shine it. We MUST LOVE all as ourselves and feel no animosity towards anyone. There are many who are so pious towards the rude, judgmental and self-righteous, yet the likes of these are the blindest and deafest of all. It takes ALL of the FRUITS of the SPIRIT to sow the seeds of Love they so desperately need. On this we will hold account.


Thank you  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

  Well said Bro J ,
  many a good folks .
   My Mother  said in the nursing  home to me one day  ,  because of the varying   religious denominations    that offer   fellowship and hymns .and she attended many of the  hours of prayer  services  by different groups and times .
If they believe in Jesus  , thats a start and good enough for me !


  I thought  Mom , your right if Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith  , He cannot fail anyone
   and many are patiently waiting on the Lord and Looking to Jesus !


Hebrews 12:1-3
(KJV)

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

[jabcat]

   many a good folks .
   My Mother  said in the nursing  home to me one day  ,  because of the varying   religious denominations    that offer   fellowship and hymns .and she attended many of the  hours of prayer  services  by different groups and times .
If they believe in Jesus  , thats a start and good enough for me !
 

Exactly!  It's about Jesus!  I like thinking about "deep" things, digging into and understanding various doctrines, etc.  I do believe in Jesus Savior of the world and that all will be redeemed, and I "declare" it.  But boiling it all down to the nth degree, Paul said "I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus and Him crucified".

[jbertonbounds]

Some of kindest, lovingest, closest to Jesus people I know believe in et in hell.  They don't like it, they may even try to soft-sell it because they're uncomfortable with it, but they believe it's what the Bible teaches, so they believe they must be faithful.  I'll talk beliefs with them here and there to a point, but I truly don't believe in badgering them, despising them, or treating them anything less than brothers and sisters in Christ - with whom we're told to "let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.." and to "speak the truth in love".   

I know there are "militants" who believe in ET that would damn one to hell in a heartbeat - and enjoy it.  However, I truly believe that's the exception, and I've known several thousand believers in eternal hell, interacted with them intimately, broke bread and worshiped together - and we worshiped, believed in, and trusted the same Jesus.  We just had varying degrees of being given to see through each of our veils .    It's not up to me to say if and who, but honestly, I believe many who believe in ET have been given the faith to believe on Jesus as Savior and have that personal relationship with him;  whereas, many/some who believe in universal salvation only/mainly do so on a "doctrinal"/philosphical level, and don't really know Him intimately.   I guess different people have different calling, but I personally disagree with hostile debates and challenging people to arguments - some discussion, reasoning, then agreeing to either find common ground or amicably go our separate ways, seems scripturally sound according to my understanding.  Still, those are just my understandings, as we all look through a glass darkly.

Absolutely agree! :iagree:
:thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

Hey, I do hate the god that they paint an image of, but that's not the true image of our god, Yahweh.  Yahweh is love!  And in the end, love wins out over death.

But don't forget that many believers believe in ET because that's all they have ever been taught, and even their bibles [seem to] teach it!  And most of the believers I know (ETers) do good works for the kingdom's sake.  They will receive a reward for their good works, because they will not be judged on the basis of whether they believed, but on the basis of their works, whether good of evil!

Granted, I have had some "Christians" be rude, judgmental, and even condemning to me over the issue of UR.  But my job is to put out the truth, and the truth scares them because their's is a gospel of fear.  It's all they know of Yah.  My proper response to that is to continue to hold them in high esteem as Yah's children whom he loves!  I can only do that through the power of Yahweh.

Praise the name of Yahweh!

Absolutely beautiful JB  :HeartThrob:

It's not about them but about us. They do not have the light and are not responsible nor accountable for the darkness in which they live.

We, too are not responsible for the Light in which we have been give, but Father will surely hold us accountable on how bright we shine it. We MUST LOVE all as ourselves and feel no animosity towards anyone. There are many who are so pious towards the rude, judgmental and self-righteous, yet the likes of these are the blindest and deafest of all. It takes ALL of the FRUITS of the SPIRIT to sow the seeds of Love they so desperately need. On this we will hold account.


Thank you  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Tom]

Being aware of universal reconciliation has made me realize God really is love. I know God's not going to torture anybody in fire forever; all mankind will be saved from death; and all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled to God through Christ's death on the cross. I think it's counterproductive to try to convince folks about universal reconciliation or any other scriptural doctrine by doing so in a condescending manner even if and especially when we are being confronted by folks who believe in church doctrine. Most of us here were probably at one time unaware of the wonderful truth about universal reconciliation. We are only blessed to know it now because it has been revealed to us by God. Anything we say or do with fellow believers who are unaware of universal reconciliation should be done in love. Simply allowing God's love to flow through us to others is the best testimony there is to its overwhelming power to change lives. I love God more since I know the truth of scripture about universal reconciliation, and I also understand God's will more and know the answers to questions like why is there evil if God is omnipotent and omniscient? But believers don't have to understand all there is to know in scripture. I'm interested. So I study scripture to know, but all somebody needs to know is Jesus Christ died for our sins and was resurrected. Other than that there is scripture and then there is church doctrine. I think most folks were programmed with church doctrine. It takes some effort to deprogram from it. That seems to be an ongoing progress for many, but the point is that we shouldn't put down folks who don't understand all there is to know about scripture whether we're talking about universal reconciliation or whatever. We should love them and share information with them when we have an opportunity but always in a way that respects them as fellow believers who simply have a different perspective because of what they've been taught to believe previously just like most of us were in the past. Scriptural knowledge is not something to be proud about because we only have it due to the grace of God. The sword of the spirit is not to be used against our brothers and sisters, but "with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials" (Ephesians 6:12). We should communicate with believers and unbelievers in the spirit of God's love. Herald the word, and God will cause them to know the truth. It's hard to do that when we hear fellow believers say something like, "You Reject Damnation Because You Hate God," but I think the best thing to do is just keep quoting scripture. That's what Christ did when Satan confronted him by distorting scripture to try to deceive him. I learned the hard way that it's a waste of time to try to overcome anything in your life by the flesh. Watch the power of God operate through the word of God, and you will be amazed to see the saving grace of God!

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/BelievingAndUnderstanding.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CheckYourPanoply/Panoply016.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement012.html

[Jock]

God took me out of that system for a reason. However, I believe that we will be persecuted by the religious folks, mostly the leaders because they feel threatened by the UR doctrine. Jesus showed them love by telling them that they were sons of the devil! But Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive them.

I remember when Rob Bell brought his book out (Love Wins). The religious leaders and others grew fangs and came out of the cracks in the wall to condemn him. Some of the you tube videos were abominable.

Anyways, I agree that we must love them but I can't do it. Lord, help me to love these people?!

Jock.  :dunno2:

[Tom]

God took me out of that system for a reason. However, I believe that we will be persecuted by the religious folks, mostly the leaders because they feel threatened by the UR doctrine. Jesus showed them love by telling them that they were sons of the devil! But Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive them.

I remember when Rob Bell brought his book out (Love Wins). The religious leaders and others grew fangs and came out of the cracks in the wall to condemn him. Some of the you tube videos were abominable.

Anyways, I agree that we must love them but I can't do it. Lord, help me to love these people?!

Jock.  :dunno2:

We will be persecuted for speaking the truth by those who have not yet been given the ability to receive it by God, but, by loving them, we manifest the overwhelming power of God's love. That's why we're told to love our enemies. That's how it becomes evident that it is love that overcomes hate.

"Be not conquered by evil; but conquer evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

Consider the example of Paul who was the worst of sinners until he saw the light. His hate was changed to love, and he was so blessed that he had to tell everybody in the world.

I think it's kind of like when your kids come at you with hate because they resent discipline, but you still love them because you know they don't understand what's up.

It's not hard to let God's love flow through you to all if you realize that it's only because God only chooses to reveal the truth to some at this time that some haven't received it yet, and most of us here were all blind to the truth in the past. So it's about having compassion for the blind and deaf like Jesus did.   

"God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing" (Romans 11:8)

I think we should simply use the word of God, the sword of the spirit, to overcome the spirit that is causing the haters to persecute us. Don't try to do it with philosophical debate or you will get frustrated and offended. Simply speak the word of truth.

My mom had Alzheimer's. Before she died, she had a really bad attitude, but we kept loving her because we knew she didn't know what was really going on.

That's the way it is with those who have not received the truth of God's word. So we must have compassion for them, and just speak the word of God. God will cause those he has chosen to receive it.

[Jock]

Tom, outstanding post!! Very helpful and "doable".

:thumbsup:

Jock :banana:

Have a banana!