Preterism

[Jock]

I just found that there is a doctrine out there that's called "Preterism" I actually hate how main stream folks brand people who don't agree with them by making them an "ism" like Universalism! Anyhow it seems that there are various forms of Preterism, like partial, full, hyper, turbo LOL.

They are saying that many of the prophecy's in the Bible are past tense. Now, I am an ex Pentecostal so I have been very much futuristic through that particular lense. I just wanna ask here because if there is something to this, I wanna know and if not, I don't want eat of it.

Can anyone help??

Jock.  :Peace2:

[Seth]

My problem with all the futurism, preterism etc is that it pins prophecy down. How unsearchable are his ways and past finding out. I try not to abide by a set pattern of Bible analysis because they are mostly man made. A preterist is forced to filter everything through that funnel and could miss something that falls out. In other words, Preterists begin with preterism, rather than being open to the idea that you cannot pin God's prophecies down. The Israelites who killed Jesus taught us that.

[Jock]

That's very good Seth. I believe you have the right way of looking at things.

Thanks

Jock. :gimmefive:

[marie glen]

It seems to me we can see Bible prophecy falling into place in the world.. much the prophets wrote have been fulfilled such with Epiphanes the II? I forget who.. but definitely and antiChrist figure who fulfilled some/much, though it seems to me the Bible refers to a 'last days' as containing much of the same events

but the Book of Revelation is a bit different in that it seems to me to be the peak and culmination of man's doings and empires.. surely? we don't think they will continue on for ever.. of man is actually evolving into better people?

The 2nd law of science (the law of sin/imperfection and death) says all things are fading / falling apart. Why? Because we build without YHWH, thus we build on shifting sand.

If God is Life.. and who or what else is or could be? "In the beginning.. God."

And, He's Perfection, therefor it's not that big a leap to percieve that im-perfection is the opposite of life.. So a real pandora's box when God chose to endow rationality / thinking ability.. for sooner of later, someone , sometime is bound to think.. say..? do we really have to do everything God's way?  And, as soon as one differs from God's view /way in any teeny tiny detail, they become im-perfect. Opposite of Life, hence death and suffering.

Yet what was God's 'other' option? No rational creatures ever?

So, since He is responsible for evil, suffering and death (albeit 'somewhat' indirectly, yet directly in knowledge, not like God can ever make a mistake!!!)

Apparently (imo:) He desires rational, thinking creatures..

I would imagine before He did any single thing, He could see all possibilities spread out before His omnipresent and all powerful sight.. and has surely(?) done all things/ every single thing.. in order to bring about the best of all possible outcomes!

Can we think any less?

All this does not take away from the 2nd most held law of science. All things fade and fall apart. In life as we know it that is.. im-perfection being the opposite of perfection/life/God.

Since He is responsible, it is huige blasphemy (imo) to accuse Him of throwing away the majority of all persons.. or worse, allowing them to live a painful, torturous 'after'life.. after death actually, which (surely?) is the opposite of life..

Mightn't it make sense that God is Life. And to stray from God is to stray from Life.. and what we are learning is that to do so merely results in a puff of self destructive smoke.. This being proven to all, as what is the best teacher?

And we are rescued from the said opposite of life.. and also im-perfection, its cause. And the knowing of good from evil, which is also life from death, is being deeply engraved upon every heart, mind and psyche..

  :))

[marie glen]

that is to say, we can pretty much discover what prophecy is by how it was fulfilled, when given in the past.. what was fiery judgements? did they actually occur? Or do man's kingdoms and empires go on for ever..?

[marie glen]

In my reading years ago when I got to the prophecies, especially the Book of Rev I prayed to understand it, after all the book itself says "blessed are those who hear, listen and heed the message" so i assumed it was written to be read and understood / perceived.

What came back to me was a question "what are the strongest forces at work upon mankind, today?"

Immediately what came to mind is man's adult fairy tale of evolution as to origins (natural selection does occur, fish to men, or pond scum to all, has never been observed, which is what "science" is supposed to be, observation, and theories, if proven right, by the prophecies they inherently make.. do they come to pass??)

Didn't said theory turn western civilization, what used to be called Christendom, on its very ear? hence, a strong delusion and the false prophet! began as a man, but now is our white frocked magician(s) who do modern wonders and miracles like rev 13:13 in 1945(surely??) and 13:16-18.

This same false prophet, and its inherent prophecy (who is getting mankind to once again look to the stars) is one of those pointed out to be cast into the notorious LOF (state of not being?) - one of only two. Or three if we count the opposer and his angels.. which the Word says the dragon is thrown into.. And then at the very end of the loong 2nd advent, all those not believing will go to - if they still resist God's will??!! after they have experienced being resurrected, etc.

:2c: :Peace2:

[Jock]

It's true that there have been many anti-christs in the past. It seems that the same spirit pervades all of them. Nero, Napoleon, yes, Darwin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao zeDung, Pol Pot, Oppenheimer, and so many others. I'm sure that all of these characters are somewhere in the Prophets.

Then the Pharisees. It's easy to look at the real bad boys in condemnation but if I am doing or saying something in anger at another human being, esp a brother or sister, then would I not be of that same spirit?

As we look out of the window in spirit, what spirit do we see.

Blessings

Jock.   :Chinscratch:

[WhiteWings]

Dunno about that anti-Christ stuff. Usually it's a list of the worst people in history.
Were Napoleon and Oppenheimer really opposing Christ?
Why are there no popes on the list that hunted down protestants? Or any king that got involved in wars between Christian denominations?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's something totally different.
For me the real anti-Christs are the ones that cloud the Gospel with veils of darkness. That would include truckloads of ET scholars. Yeah for me they are far more anti-Christ than a Roman emperor that went to a pagan temple after he enjoyed seeing a dozen Christians being fed to the lions in an arena.

[Jock]

Hi WW, you're probably right about the truckload of ET scholars, lol. The Pharisees were of that ilk I think. Jesus told them that the prostitutes and tax collectors would enter the Kingdom before them, however He didn't exclude them.

I get a bit fed up with all this prophecy stuff, the blogosphere is awash with it. The only one I tend to listen to is Martin Zender, Clyde Pilkington et all.

[Tom]

I try not to get into theological discussions. I prefer to just interpret scripture literally as much as possible unless something is obviously figurative. Regarding preterism, I think some prophecies have been fulfilled, and some are yet to be fulfilled in the future. We are in the the third of five eons with the last two to come when Christ returns. They are "the eons of the eons" that has been mistranslated "for ever and ever." We believers will be vivified when Christ meets us in the air. Unbelievers will be judged before the great white throne a thousand years later and condemned to the second death, but they also will be vivified at the consummation of the eons so that God will be all in all.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[Jock]

Thanks, Tom. You laid that out nice and clearly.   :thumbsup:

[Seth]

It's true that there have been many anti-christs in the past. It seems that the same spirit pervades all of them. Nero, Napoleon, yes, Darwin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao zeDung, Pol Pot, Oppenheimer, and so many others. I'm sure that all of these characters are somewhere in the Prophets.

I believe that many of the things which appear external in the prophecies, like Revelation, we can find within ourselves. Like the cup of God's wrath. The whole world will drink from it. That signifies an internal judgment, one against the carnal mind which is at emnity against God. I believe we all have "the man of sin" within us when he sits in the temple of God ("know ye not that ye are the temple of God?") As though he is a God.

In other words, I think we need to see the seven churches (yes, including Laodicea) within ourselves. Both the positives and negatives. The ET world has a "that can't be talking about me" attitude about prophecy. Let anyone who says they stand, take heed lest he fall.

[marie glen]

It's my belief prophecy simply declares all untruth can only fall.. men's empires.. fall.. built on sand.. Of course the opposer wants to hide that.. and gather the world up in a dream of man's evolving greatness..

If there's no peak or climax (moral, conclusion, lesson) to the human story, why bother?

why not just wake us all up from repose as born again?

or as others believe, torture us all into belief?

To me prophecy is simply logic.

(And if the watchmen could see the sword coming they could give warning.. prophecy was given, I believe, as a testimonial to Truth, and Ezekiel said the watchman should be faithful and give a clear call of warning.)

:Peace2: &  :girlheart:

[dajomaco]

It's true that there have been many anti-christs in the past. It seems that the same spirit pervades all of them. Nero, Napoleon, yes, Darwin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao zeDung, Pol Pot, Oppenheimer, and so many others. I'm sure that all of these characters are somewhere in the Prophets.

I believe that many of the things which appear external in the prophecies, like Revelation, we can find within ourselves. Like the cup of God's wrath. The whole world will drink from it. That signifies an internal judgment, one against the carnal mind which is at emnity against God. I believe we all have "the man of sin" within us when he sits in the temple of God ("know ye not that ye are the temple of God?") As though he is a God.

In other words, I think we need to see the seven churches (yes, including Laodicea) within ourselves. Both the positives and negatives. The ET world has a "that can't be talking about me" attitude about prophecy. Let anyone who says they stand, take heed lest he fall.

I agree the word is the living word.
The word is for the living only.
There are no them and no us .

These are the last days of my flesh.
There is nothing I can know from the word that will help
me save my flesh and it's identity .

Death is a lonely thing.
We are comforted by the idea of bible prophesies and some how dying
as a group.

You die alone you and God and no one else.

This is a great comfort to me.

[ded2daworld]

preterism has many good points. Like all beliefs that are different from the mainstream, ET'ers condemn preterists to hell so there must be some truth to it.  :laughing7:

[dajomaco]

  This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, said to me: "Take this cup of the wine of wrath from My hand and make all the nations I am sending you to, drink from it. 16 They will drink, stagger,[e] and go out of their minds because of the sword I am sending among them."

The LORD roars from heaven;
He raises His voice from His holy dwelling.
He roars loudly over His grazing land;
He calls out with a shout, like those who tread grapes,
against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 The tumult reaches to the ends of the earth
because the LORD brings a case against the nations.
He enters into judgment with all flesh.As for the wicked, He hands them over to the sword—
this is the LORD's declaration.


Going a little farther,[a] He fell facedown and prayed, "My Father! If it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will."


1 Corinthians  11:25
In the same way, after supper He also took the cup and said, "This cup is the new covenant established by My blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

The flesh can only drink from the cup of God's wrath.

I think that there is a spiritual mystery that has to do with the words Jesus spoke on the cross
"my God my God why have you forsaken me "
Jesus defeated Satan through the flesh.
To be aware of the victory I believe Jesus for the first time identified  himself in the Flesh.