Paul Washer's shocking message

[arcticmonster2003]

Great message, though long (about an hour).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

[Captain.Theophilus]

I used to be a big-time disciple of Paul Washer. I had dozens of his sermons on tape, I distributed them freely through mixes or "sermon jams" on youtube.

I used to think that Jesus loved me and that Paul Washer was helping lead me to that Jesus. I now see that Jesus loves me, and that Paul Washer wanted to lead me away from that Jesus.

I am a "died-in-the-wool" "paul-washerist." I could tell you every bit of trivia about his sermons, the majority of his views on any sermon he's ever preached, and his answer to any question. I used to listen to him day-in-and-day-out, because I thought he was inspiring revival in my soul.

All of Paul Washer's doctrines hinge on the certainty of the great majority of the human race burning in eternal Hell, and this did more to damage my view of God than anything I've ever believed. He says, and I paraphrase:

"Humans in their natural fallen state are like orcs in Lord of the Rings, you want to cheer when they get their head chopped off"
"If God created the entire human race for no other purpose than to send them to Hell he would still be loving and merciful"
"The modern American church (insert baseless allegation here) always teaches (insert 2nd baseless allegation here) which is contrary to all of (insert baseless, unproveable statement about Church History) all of church history."
"God didn't have to love you, but because you are in Christ he does. If you are not in Christ however, you are a worm, a dragon, a good-for-nothing but to be thrown out in the mud. But if you are in Christ, trust me he loves you more than anything!!! Just make sure to examine yourself, [i.e. stress yourself out, wear yourself into the ground daily trying to make sure you are saved] if you are not, you are demonstrating that you are not a true Christian, and you need to repent so you can know you are truly saved."
"If you are not repenting every day, you are not saved."
"My views are the views of the Church for 2,000 years and anything else is heresy and the teaching of false prophets."
"Many people who proclaim the name of Jesus [i.e. show contrition, perhaps even knowledge of Jesus will not be saved"

Some of these paraphrases are a little generous, but I believe they communicate the gist of his messages.

Basically if you disagree with him you are a heretic, or distorting true theology, or hurting the cause of the Church. He is the closest thing I've ever seen to a cult leader without being an actual cult.

I tried so hard to fall in love with his God, he sounded so right and I believed him so intensely, because I wanted to seek Jesus so badly, but the only thing Paul Washer's teachings ever did in the long run of many years was make me hate God.

He is a poor teacher, and in my opinion little more than an eccentric psycho/sociopath who somehow got a hold of a microphone.

[Captain.Theophilus]

So much pain caused by placing our hope in man's teaching... 

As you've probably guessed I realized this and stopped trusting in his teaching years ago :)

That being said, let's be real -- everything is man's teaching. The Bible was written by 40 different men, and the pastors or authorities who interpret it, from the layman to the pastor to the pope are all men. Even if we interpret the Bible ourselves, we are still men interpreting it.

Granted, we trust that the Bible is God's word and not merely men's words, but still each book was written by men with their particular personality, influences, etc dictating some of the results, such that even the interpretation of each book is determined by the author [ i.e. we interpret Paul differently than David, etc.]

[joeteekay]

Disagree with you partly Captain.
The Bible is indeed the interpretation of men from the Holy Scriptures.
The Holy Scriptures were inspired by God through His faithful servants.
In a earlier post on one forum I wrote:
I believe in the reconciliation and salvation of ALL, that aeons never means forever, but age - abiding and that we are not to follow a man. Only follow Jesus Christ.
Best scripture translations IMO are Concordant Literal Version, Young's and Rotherham Emphatic

[Captain.Theophilus]

Disagree with you partly Captain.
The Bible is indeed the interpretation of men from the Holy Scriptures.
The Holy Scriptures were inspired by God through His faithful servants.
In a earlier post on one forum I wrote:
I believe in the reconciliation and salvation of ALL, that aeons never means forever, but age - abiding and that we are not to follow a man. Only follow Jesus Christ.
Best scripture translations IMO are Concordant Literal Version, Young's and Rotherham Emphatic

Oh, so am I supposed to trust the teaching of man (you) that Concordant Literal, Youngs, and Rotherham are the TRUE translations? Or should I trust the teaching of the KJVist MEN that theirs is the true translation? Am I to trust the teaching of you, a MAN that we should only follow Jesus and not men? Does not that statement defeat itself?

Sorry, but the "trust teaching of God, not man" argument is vacuous at it's core. At the very best, all of us have strong opinions, which we presume, hope, and trust are not from men, but from God, but none of us can know for sure, because the genesis of the belief is either from us or from other people.

[jabcat]

Joe said "IMO", which is the spirit of how we're asked to post - "as I understand", "I believe..", etc.

Actually, I believe the genesis of what/how we believe can be from God - and best be, even if spoken through a man but by the Holy Spirit. 

2 Peter 1:21 is of course an interesting scripture, mentioning prophecy specifically, but still showing how it came about - spoken by men, "moved/carried along by the Holy Spirit".


As far as the scriptures discussion, maybe this will be helpful in some way;    http://tentmaker.org/forum/rules-and-faq/moderatortm-expectations-regarding-the-scriptures/msg84791/#msg84791

[Seth]

Great message, though long (about an hour).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

I believe that false doctrines are an automatic judgment against the carnal mind. The scriptures clearly teach us to spiritually discern the things of God, to compare spiritual things with spiritual. Disobedience of that commanded hermeneutic, results in judgment upon the carnal mind by way of doctrines that lead them into suffering. Bearing this suffering causes them to look for Jesus somewhere in that darkness, to find the Love he surely spoke about.

The ironic thing about all this, is that it's guys like Paul Washer who usually get so tired and ground down by this judgment that they end up being the very ones who turn around and become passionate believers in UR when they start to see the more full council of God.

It just all reminds me of the Saul of Tarsus's of the world.

[ded2daworld]

I guessed I missed something. Oh yeah, it was the IMO jab said was in Joe's post. Was it removed? if so why?
I was a big Paul Washer fan myself and read his books and listened to his sermons. In a way, it was he that drove me to Ultimate reconciliation with his sick, twisted version of a "loving" God.  :Chinscratch:

[jbertonbounds]

Yesterday Yahweh put it on my heart and I wrote a lengthy email to a friend who is my former ET pastor.  He had emailed an ET article to a group of addressees, including me.  He has been preaching the darkness of ET for decades.  I emailed him back and shared UR with him along with a lengthy list of scripture verses which declare ALL will be saved.  It was clear in his response that he was agitated - he had scanned through the email without reading it thoroughly, then stated that all who do not believe will be cast into hell.  He also brought up the old familiar statement, "You are saying a person can do anything he wants to do and it won't matter because we are all saved anyway?"  Then he says that I was calling the article he had emailed me a sham. 

Hey, that's all OK by me.  I planted a seed, and I prayed that the Lord water it, give it warmth and light, and cause it to sprout truth in his heart. :HeartThrob:

He was a former pastor.  I am waiting to see if the Lord gives me a command, so to speak, to share this with my current pastor (I am not attending church, but my membership is still hanging out there).  I have shared it with him once already and I am praying for the Lord to do a work in his heart also.  I'm ready when Yah is! :banana:

[marie glen]

been reading the Bible on my own for 33+ years.. shied away from the minus love versions being preached soon after being handed a bible.. It's not that hard to read it how the Spirit of God intends (intended) imo!

I don't believe in throwing out the Word (the mighty sWord) of God which tip of, can easily separate threads of untruth from threads of truth in all tapestries of life, doctrine and philosophies..

Daily bread and (new) wine (the Spirit) - Jesus' most important instructions to followers given on the very eve of His crucifixion / execution.. And since He was crucified for us, the least we can do is get the message right!
Just my opinion : )

[Jock]

This man is a false prophet. The very thing he preaches against, he is.

Jock :doh: