There is no antichrist!

[Robert Sparks]

After reading the Bible as an unchurched atheist I was surprised to learn that there is no antichrist.
I was sure there was because you hear so much about him on TV (The History Channel).
Well that should be a first hint that there is no antichrist.
All speculation as to the identity of a so called antichrist is a result of man just making stuff up whole cloth, misinterpreting scripture mixed with (I believe) satanic sleight of hand.
There is so much nonsense about the antichrist out there because people read the Bible with a non Biblical preconceived worldly expectation of what to expect.
The world tells us to expect AN antichrist, not the Bible.
It's not the Beast(s), it's not the son of perdition, it's not the false Prophet, and "anti" Christ doesn't mean "in place of" Christ.
These are all lies mostly spread by unknowing Christians.
There is no single antichrist in the Bible and the Bible is very clear that there are many antichrists and they've been around since Christ completed his earthly work.
There are probably millions of antichrists in the world.
Where did this idea of a single antichrist come from?
I assert it was Satan's idea.
There is someone that the Bible tells us we need to be looking out for and if we are looking out for an imagined "antichrist" we will never find this hidden man.
The son of perdition is our guy.
He is AN antichrist for sure -one of many- but if he is changed into 'THE antichrist' then we lose him in a morass of millions of possible antichrists and will speculate endlessly as to his identity.
That's just what we see in the world.
If the imagined antichrist is a Beast, son of perdition, false Prophet etc. then he could be anyone and we are no longer looking for the man who God told us to look for and that's the son of perdition (the man of sin).
By calling him "THE antichrist" we have lost our hint as to his identity.
The "son of perdition" is found only twice in the Bible. The first time he is mentioned it's in regard to Judas the betrayer of Christ John 17:12. The second time the son of perdition is mentioned is in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;.
Since Judas is the example of the son of perdition we now have our clue as to the coming man of sin's identity. A betrayer. Can a Muslim betray Christ? Nope. Can a United States president betray Christ? Nope. In order to betray you have to be on the inside and a Christian to begin with.
We are looking for a Judas "type" who sells out Christ for money. If you want to know who the man of sin is then study who Judas Iscariot was. Judas was one of the 12 apostles who handled the money and NEVER called Jesus the son of God. He only ever called Jesus Rabbi (teacher). That's our clue. There is only one son of perdition coming (not two) and he will be pretending to be one of us.

[Tom]

We have one thing in common. I'm also "unchurched," but I'm a believer. I don't agree with the distorted version of scripture presented by the History Channel or the church, but I believe scripture is the inspired written word of God which reveals expectation of salvation from death for all mankind even atheists such as yourself.

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." (1 Corinthians 15:22)

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers" (1 Timothy 4:10)

You said, "After reading the Bible as an unchurched atheist I was surprised to learn that there is no antichrist." Below you will find quotes and commentary of the four places in scripture where the word "antichrist" is found.

"18 Little children, it is the last hour, and, according as you hear that the antichrist is coming, now also there have come to be many antichrists, whence we know that it is the last hour.
19 Out of us they come, but they were not of us, for if they were of us, they would have remained with us. But it was that they may be manifested that they are not all of us.
20 And you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all are aware.
21 I write not to you seeing that you are not acquainted with the truth, but that you are acquainted with it, and that no lie at all is of the truth.
22 Who is the liar, if not he who is denying, saying that "Jesus is not the Christ"? This one is the antichrist, who is disowning the Father and the Son."(1 John 2:18-22)

"18 The term "antichrist" occurs only in John's epistles. The prefix "anti" now has the meaning of "against" and antichrist signifies one who is against Christ. But "anti" originally meant "instead of", and this is its significance in "antichrist". An antichrist is one who takes Christ's place, a substitute or counterfeit christ. John speaks of them as coming out from amongst the circle of the saints. The indiscriminate use of this term for the coming prince of Daniel (Dan.9:26), the lawless one of Paul (2 Thes.2:8), and the first wild beast of the Unveiling (Un.13:1) is to be deplored. No clear conceptions can come of confusing these titles. Antichrist, as a substitute for Christ, is probably to be identified with the second wild beast which had horns like a lambkin (Un.13:11). This one only has a likeness to Christ and deceives those dwelling on the earth.
     The antichrists are probably identical with the false christs which were foretold by our Lord (Mt.24:24; Mk.13:22) who would deceive, if it were possible, the very elect. The spirit of antichrist is already in the world and may be known by certain definite characteristics. One is the denial that Jesus is the Christ. The second is the disowning of the Father as well as the Son. The third is the disavowal of the flesh of Christ, that He has come in flesh in the past (1Jn.4:3) and that He is coming in flesh in the future (2 Jn.7). Only those who definitely deny these things are in reality possessed of the spirit of antichrist. It should not be applied to all who oppose Christ, or who teach false doctrine, but rather to those who deceive by pretending to take the place of Christ. The term is never associated with open opposition but rather with secret deception. Whoever, and whatever, displaces Christ is imbued with the spirit of antichrist. It will culminate in the future manifestation of one who will be received by Israel as their long desired Messiah." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 369)

"1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God, for many false prophets have come out into the world.
2 In this you know the spirit of God: every spirit which is avowing Jesus Christ, having come in flesh, is of God,
3 and every spirit which is not avowing Jesus the Lord having come in flesh is not of God. And this is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and is now already in the world." (1 John 4:1-3)

"1 The only true standard for testing spirits is the written revelation of God and its testimony to the living revelation, which became flesh and remains flesh. In this passage the reference is to His coming in the past. In John's second epistle he warns against the deceivers who are not avowing Jesus Christ coming in flesh-that is, in the future. In both cases those who make Him a spirit are associated with the spirit of antichrist (2Jn.7).

3 The spirit of antichrist is the spirit of the world. It does not want the Christ of the Scriptures, but prefers some substitute more suited to its taste. This spirit has come to pervade, not only the world, but the nominal church, which has become largely a religious world. In it rites and ceremonies are substituted for the salvation of Christ, the energy of the flesh takes the place of the power of the Spirit, and the wisdom of men displaces the wisdom of God. The world is to be saved by social service and sanitation and reconciled by reform. Everywhere are signs that the majority of the churches have lost faith in God's Christ and are attempting to find some better means of carrying on God's work than through the power of His Son." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament pages 370,371)

"for many deceivers came out into the world, who are not avowing Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

"7 The principal object of this letter seems to be a warning against those who spiritualize the coming of Christ, and deny His physical appearance in the future. In the first epistle it is "having come" (4:2) . Here the present participle is used—"coming"—and can refer only to His manifestation in the day of the Lord. (See Mt.16:28, 24:30, 26:64; Mk.13:26, 14:62; Lu.21:27.) This involves the great truth of His physical resurrection and ascension, and confirms the literal understanding of the prophecy that "And His feet stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem from the east" (Zech.14:4).
     Truth is emphasized in this as love is emphasized in the third epistle. The many deceivers cause grave concern. Truth is imperiled and is now to be made a test of fellowship and a condition of offering hospitality (10). It will not be a time of recovery of truth but of its perversion. The test of fellowship in the present is conduct and not doctrine." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 373)

[Robert Sparks]

I became a believer in Jesus and the Bible when I read the Bible at the tender age of 49. I believe the Word is of God and is God.
Because I was an atheist and 99% of my friends were atheists I kept my conversion a secret for over a year where all I did in that time was read the Bible sometimes 16 hours a day.
I had no church and no internet crazy theories to confuse scripture.
I love the Word and I love Truth.
There is no Antichrist coming (they have been here for 2000 years).
The Bible clearly speaks of an antichrist spirit in the world since the completion of Christ's earthly mission.
There is no antichrist coming.
They have been here since Christ exited his tomb alive.
Thanks for your comments Tom.

[JulieTang84]

Thanks for bringing up a very inteesting topic.

Luk 11:23
"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Jesus wasn't interested in fence sitters anymore than he was those whom openly ridiculed him. They were anti Christ and His message in so many ways.

So many try to take literally the symbolic words of Revelation.

I do have a question for you though. People can only be lead away by a would be pied-piper if they want to. The reasons maybe many, but lead away they are. If say a pragmatic person came along with a NEW message, of a NEW LOVE; many would follow and dare I say, some Christians too. Why?

Is it because they still haven't found what they are looking for? Or is it because Father has hidden himself from them? I believe the answer is YES to both. Logically, any antiChrist is so because they know of no other way. Clearly there is a lesson for us. Is it to watch out and steer clear, or is it LOVE them by doing good, etc to them? Sowing seeds of love, patience, goodness, gratitude, etc.

Now one could argue that if Father has hardened their hearts, then who am I to go against him? Many will throw Scripture at them and be entirely justified in doing so. However, I think Jesus taught us to LOVE first and foremost and any Scripture given should be given in and through love. For true Love fears nothing.

In short, no antiChrist:

Eph 6:13-17
Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Jock]

That's our clue. There is only one son of perdition coming (not two) and he will be pretending to be one of us.

No doubt he'll be teaching eternal torment!

[eaglesway]

I think he will be teaching that there are many gods and there is no judgment to come.                                 

[Jock]

Eaglesway



I think he will be teaching that there are many gods and there is no judgment to come. 

Good point.                               

[jbertonbounds]

Some religions are all out antichrist.  Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam to name a few.  As someone said, antichrist is everywhere and has been around for two millennia.

[JulieTang84]

Some religions are all out antichrist.  Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam to name a few.  As someone said, antichrist is everywhere and has been around for two millennia.

Jbb I would be a little careful of such accusations JBB.

I would not consider such eastern religions (not islam) as being of the anti Christ type because they seek not to change the world with lies and deception. This sounds much more like the  acts of the average Christian church. Islam is just a religion of hate. They do not speak word pleasing to the ear.

Please never forget that Gather reads hearts. All we have is the fruit. Perhaps the eastern religions are making the most of what they have. What if they do not find the love and peace that they were given it Christianity?

Are they too blame. It is not like Christianity is the shining light on the hill. That's why we are here is it not?

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[jbertonbounds]

Some religions are all out antichrist.  Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam to name a few.  As someone said, antichrist is everywhere and has been around for two millennia.

Jbb I would be a little careful of such accusations JBB.

I would not consider such eastern religions (not islam) as being of the anti Christ type because they seek not to change the world with lies and deception. This sounds much more like the  acts of the average Christian church. Islam is just a religion of hate. They do not speak word pleasing to the ear.

Please never forget that Gather reads hearts. All we have is the fruit. Perhaps the eastern religions are making the most of what they have. What if they do not find the love and peace that they were given it Christianity?

Are they too blame. It is not like Christianity is the shining light on the hill. That's why we are here is it not?

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

Consider the following scriptures, which define "antichrist" for us (which are 3 of only 4 scriptures in the bible that even mention "antichrist"):
1 John 2.22 - Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4.3 - and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
2 John 1.7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Orthodox Jews are all-out against Yeshua.  They deny he is the savior.  They are therefore antichrist.
Buddhists do not believe Yeshua is the savior.  They believe there is another way to heaven.  They are therefore antichrist.
Hindus do not believe Yeshua is the savior.  They believe there is another way to heaven.  They are therefore antichrist.
Muslims hate Yeshua and deny him adamantly.  They are therefore antichrist.
Christianity is all about Yeshua.  They may have faulty doctrine with ET, but they are definitely not antichrist.

[Warhawk17]

I think he will be teaching that there are many gods and there is no judgment to come.                               

Could you elaborate on that a little bit? What do you mean by many gods?

[JulieTang84]

Consider the following scriptures, which define "antichrist" for us (which are 3 of only 4 scriptures in the bible that even mention "antichrist"):
1 John 2.22 - Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4.3 - and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
2 John 1.7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Orthodox Jews are all-out against Yeshua.  They deny he is the savior.  They are therefore antichrist.
Buddhists do not believe Yeshua is the savior.  They believe there is another way to heaven.  They are therefore antichrist.
Hindus do not believe Yeshua is the savior.  They believe there is another way to heaven.  They are therefore antichrist.
Muslims hate Yeshua and deny him adamantly.  They are therefore antichrist.
Christianity is all about Yeshua.  They may have faulty doctrine with ET, but they are definitely not antichrist.

I believe you are missing several key points.

The Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ. However, they cannot be the anti-christ because they are not trying to deceive the world. In truth, they are trying to stay alive; hardly the trademark of a true anti-Christ.

Both the Buddhists and Hindus are a peaceful and loving religions. One can not love without the spirit of Love. The religions have a record of peacefulness for hundreds if not thousands of years. Who knows how much or how little Jesus has revealed himself to them, yet by their fruits we can learn much. A blind loving person is hardly a threat, nor are these religions. Blind and deaf maybe, anti-Christ material, definitely not.

Muslim, are full of hatred and jealously. They want know one happy and deny everything that is not of Allah. Once again this hatred began 1000's of years ago. They are anti Christ as much as they are anti everything.

But you chose to ignore my views concerning the Christian church. Why is that?

The anti-Christ is ANTI CHRIST because they UNDERSTAND FULLY WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE STANDS FOR

The antiChrist seeks to pervert the truth (knowing it fully) to gain power and to condemn peoples allover the world. The truth that they peddle is anything but calming or peaceful. They have destroyed families, killed millions in crusades denied the light of truth and caused people to live in fear of a hateful vengeful God that seeks glory in roasting millions alive in utter misery for all eternity.

I respect you are lot JB, but I really believe you have dropped the ball on this one.

Love Julie   :HeartThrob:

[bj127]

Thumbs up Julie.  What better place to deceive and lie than within the Christian Church?  It's been happening and, I believe, will grow stronger especially combined with a strong right wing political alliance.  The anti Christ is or will be hiding in plain sight.

[jabcat]

..all about Yeshua. 

:thumbsup:  Amen.   "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish...whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son."  John 3:16, 18

quote - 1 John 2.22 - Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4.3 - and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
2 John 1.7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world..


I personally think there are (at least) 2 sort of separate issues here.  1)  problems in the "church" (some are not really in the ecclesia, as they have the name only but have never been spiritually reborn - (Paul said "not all are of the faith"), and  2)  the antichrist.     Christianity certainly has its problems, and certain groups within it have done outright dastardly deeds - even in the name of God.  But IMO, that's generally not truly knowing Him, but rather a  head knowledge/mouth confession without having had the miracle of spiritual new birth ("Lord, Lord, haven't we"..."I never knew you").   But still, I don't believe that describes true believers on Jesus, or, that it fully explains the  antichrist issue.   

  As far as the actual antichrist discussion,  it may be hard to know exactly who/what all that is.  I.e., is it "just" those in  the scriptures above, or also something/someone else?  I'm not sure, I'm no Book of Revelation expert.  :)       Still it seems the quoted scriptures tell us pretty clearly where the starting point is.  The rejection (or just not  yet  having been given eyes to see and faith to believe) on God's Son as Savior - and then what else may be involved :dontknow: (son of perdition for example?).  So questions for me on the antichrist.  But to the basic "Christian" and other religions issue;  Romans 10 - "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.  How can they believe in whom they have not heard?"      I believe all that goes along with the understanding that only the ecclesia are saved in this age, with the rest being brought in later.  "Every knee will [must] bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father".   

[Jock]

Concerning the christian religion. It is a religion, basically an institution but I don't think we should label and demonize the people. I have known some very fine people in the past who are in churches. I ask you, who is the judge? He will send the reapers out at the end to separate the wheat from the tares. If we did, I have no doubt that we would pull up some of the wheat in the process.

Isa 58:9  "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
You will cry, and He will say, 'Here I am.'
If you remove the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness
BTW, I do believe that there will be a man "The son of perdition" who will have great popularity and influence however, there is a lot of speculation about this, but I do believe that the Lord will keep us up to speed.

Jock.  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

If we did, I have no doubt that we would pull up some of the wheat in the process.

Maybe so but also keep in mind Jesus, the 12 and many OT people fought false doctrines. Even until death.

[Jock]

WW, I wasn't speaking of doctrines, but the people.

Here is a contribution by Walid Shoebat.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvbXdsHXxE4

[JulieTang84]

Concerning the christian religion. It is a religion, basically an institution but I don't think we should label and demonize the people. I have known some very fine people in the past who are in churches. I ask you, who is the judge? He will send the reapers out at the end to separate the wheat from the tares. If we did, I have no doubt that we would pull up some of the wheat in the process.

Isa 58:9  "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
You will cry, and He will say, 'Here I am.'
If you remove the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness
BTW, I do believe that there will be a man "The son of perdition" who will have great popularity and influence however, there is a lot of speculation about this, but I do believe that the Lord will keep us up to speed.

Jock.  :2c:

By no means am I suggesting that all Christians are anti-christs. However, to be fair, when presented an alternate view of Scripture, most will reject it and ask: "what if you are wrong?"


This will not bode well I am sure as they are trading love and peace for fear.


It could be that some person seeks to unite the world and uses the Christian church as the platform. Then begins to promise life everlasting while eradicating thousands who stand in the way of "The Lord"


A sickening but all too probable scenario.


Thanks Jock,


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Jock]

That's a thought, being as we are Universalists, we must believe that the anti-Christ (if he is a man) will ultimately be saved? I guess that goes for Cain, Amalek, Saul, Judas, and all and sundry, albeit in the second resurrection?

:

That way, we can more easily love our enemies knowing that they will be vivified as new creations

I may just be blowing bubbles here   

:dunno2 Jock

[WhiteWings]

WW, I wasn't speaking of doctrines, but the people.

Doctrines are followed by people. The wheat and tares are indeed people but just as well as people following doctrines. Anyway my point was Jesus confronted them without being afraid to pull out the wheat.


:2c:

[Jock]

I get your point BUT Jesus told His disciples not to pull up the tares. False doctrine is poison so I'm with you on that.

[WhiteWings]

Jock, I think I wasn't very clear. I was not trying to prove you wrong. I was merely trying to show you a conflicting view. And personally I can't explain away that conflict. Yeah, I know Scripture doesn't conflict; but my limited understanding isn't part of Scripture..... :winkgrin:

[Jock]

WW, that's cool bro. After years of churchianity, I am having to shed all of the excess baggage that I accrued. Being here in Tentmaker is really helpful to me, plus it challenges me which is needful.

Jock  :banana:

[lomarah]

Been out of the church for years now and I'm still shedding lol... I hear ya bro!

[sheila]

no what,guys?  Your post made me thinkof Paul..whosoviciously attacked Christ's body

of beleivers...and because he did it in ignorance..Paul said the Lord had mercy on him...and

he[Paul]was like one born out of season causeofit.  He realized his own raod..would have been

with the other Pharisee's etc.