The nature of Gehenna and the Lake of Fire as judgments

[rosered]

  Hi Seth !!
  its good to see you back again !   I love what your sharing and see it very much  the same way ! we always agreed alot in the past   as I recall .
  I  too  see this short time  that we are in the flesh   and the devil has this short time to destroy it
   for   the days of our flesh was shortened   from   1000  years    Adams flesh ended at  930 years   to 70 years in the Psalms   80 by grace   and than we FLY away !!
Jesus is the resurrection and the Life !  this to me is the first and only death some will experience  here as others  will undergo the 2nd death    that harms them  , note its harm   , I see this as the sting of the tormentors of Rev 9  .. the 5 months ! labour pains    , and its always about removing the PRIDE  and   false  images and lies  and murderous hearts !
just a few thoughts  , love how you covered much in a few posts!   my  scripture site is not working so  , I just   winged it lol  :laughing7:

Me too! I have been thinking about the connection between Revelation and the 10 plagues of Moses. 10 Commandments: the strength of sin is the Law. Locusts tormenting man....sin tormenting man? I think there is a case to be made for it but I haven't looked into it all the way. I think it's interesting how the locusts have human faces and take on human characteristics ("for they devour eachother")

  Amen to that  , the smoke of their torment !!   fear causes torment 
perfect Love cast out fear
   I know from along time ago
  Loxoco    made a post about the  beasts / animals and how they fear the  the Fire
  Well God is a consuming Fire 
It made sense to me !  after reading ECC 3  and how Solomon / son of peace  was  given wisdom   of the earth   , but a greater than Solomon  is here   Jesus Christ

  Solomon shared this    and showed me how much  is hidden in our hearts that must be revealed by the LIGHT / JESUS CHRIST !
If you  think about it , our hearts   are where all  things are found within us !!  as Gods work 
Life death , sin  , righteousness etc ,  the kingdom      GRAVES !  its all there to be exposed  by the power of God  though Jesus Christ  and its the deeds that are always judged  , over and over we see the deeds/works /actions  as    wages / rewards   for that mind set .

Ecc 3:10 I have seen the burden God has placed on us all. 


Ecc 3:11 Yet God has made everything beautiful for its own time.

He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God's work from beginning to end. 
Ecc 3:12 So I concluded there is nothing better than to be happy and enjoy ourselves as long as we can. 


Ecc 3:13 And people should eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of their labor, for these are gifts from God. 


Ecc 3:14 And I know that whatever God does is final. Nothing can be added to it or taken from it. God's purpose is that people should fear him. 

Ecc 3:15 What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again. 


Ecc 3:16 I also noticed that under the sun there is evil in the courtroom. Yes, even the courts of law are corrupt! 


Ecc 3:17 I said to myself, "In due season God will judge everyone, both good and bad, for all their deeds." 


Ecc 3:18 I also thought about the human condition—how God proves to people that they are like animals. 
Ecc 3:19 For people and animals share the same fate—both breathe  and both must die. So people have no real advantage over the animals. How meaningless! 


Ecc 3:20 Both go to the same place—they came from dust and they return to dust. 


Ecc 3:21 For who can prove that the human spirit goes up and the spirit of animals goes down into the earth? 


Ecc 3:22 So I saw that there is nothing better for people than to be happy in their work. That is why we are here! No one will bring us back from death to enjoy life after we die. 


  But I see JESUS CHRIST  AS THE LIFE  BACK FROM THE DEAD  in verse 22  , where Solomon had not experienced this yet!       

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

Yes, man himself is a beast

Ecclesiastes 1:13
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore (ra - evil)  travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised (humbled) therewith.

Yep, God has a purpose in turning man over to an evil travail. We see this today clearly. Turn on the nightly news and then tell me your opinion of the human condition. We are truly humbled by this evil travail. And all who build their house on the sand, a different foundation than our Rock, will experience great loss.

Pride is the ultimate blockage of the light, that when removed, the Light exposes the destruction.

[rosered]

:thumbsup:

Yes, man himself is a beast

Ecclesiastes 1:13
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore (ra - evil)  travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised (humbled) therewith.

Yep, God has a purpose in turning man over to an evil travail. We see this today clearly. Turn on the nightly news and then tell me your opinion of the human condition. We are truly humbled by this evil travail. And all who build their house on the sand, a different foundation than our Rock, will experience great loss.

Pride is the ultimate blockage of the light, that when removed, the Light exposes the destruction.

  Amen  to that Seth !!

  I can see them  old  testament stories  like King Neb , he was a  tree cut down /kingdom   built in pride and ignorance  , but the watchers  left the roots in the earth    at Gods command ,  he  was humbled  by suffering of his flesh and humanity  and was given  a beasts heart !    its also a heart of a beast that destroys Babylon  ,, to eat her flesh and burn her with fire    , oh the irony   of  that !  only to Praise and glorify God in the end
pride comes before  a fall !
Dan 4:16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
Dan 5:20 But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:
Dan 5:21 And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.

  I see Job as  going though suffering of his fleshy  humanity  to     in the end to Glorify God , learning all things are given from Gods power and NOT our own !

I could not get on TM  yesterday
  but today , its all up and running  smoothly again

Praise God !  :thumbsup:

[sheila]

I couldn'teither,Rose.

[rosered]

I couldn'teither,Rose.

:thumbsup:   I know , its strange but true .
 
God works in mysterious ways  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

and his heart was made like the beasts,

Awesome. "his heart was MADE (by who? God) to be like the beasts"

Given over....

I never saw that before.

[sheila]

Man,who isheld in honour,withoutunderstanding..is as the beast...leave the stump inthe earth

    ...seven times..tilhe is wettedwiththe dew of heaven.........

[Seth]

I keep getting confirmation as I continue to study the scripture about the Lake of Fire as God turning man over to his own sin to be humbled by it:


Psalm 32:1-5
Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them AND in whose spirit is no deceit. When I kept silent (didn't confess sins), my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy on me; my strength was sapped as in the HEAT of summer.

Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the Lord." And you forgave the guilt of my sin.

Through David we again witness the difference between grace to the humble and resistance of the proud. For the humble they receive forgiveness of sin. Blessed is NOT ONLY the one whose transgressions are forgiven, but in whose spirit is no deceit (read: forgiveness of sin unto salvation from sin). Nobody is blessed whose sins are forgiven, yet in whose heart remains deceit.

For those who live not by faith, who keep silent, and cover their own iniquity, again, we see the sapping of strength by the heat (tormented without rest, "day and night"). Notice that through this day and night tormenting by one's own iniquity, that God's hand is heavy on them. It's a judgment. This scripture does not contain the threat of hell, but the wrath of the Day of the Lord as labor pain on a pregnant woman. Sapping strength, humbling man by rendering unto him according to his works: his own sin as a judgment upon him.

[Seth]

This is one of the reasons I am glad Tentmaker and Gary is clearly differentiating itself from the "Doctrine of Inclusion." There is a branch of UR that claims everyone is blessed by God even if they have deceit in their hearts about who they are, that they are not saved from sin, but saved while in sin. That's no kind of blessing at all.