"Is Jesus The Narrow Way?" A small step toward Christian Universalism

[WhiteWings]

It is trying to obtain salvation through obeying the Law.  It doesn't matter whose law or how many laws. Living by the law puts you on the road to destruction. Salvation is found only through Jesus. A salvation by the law is the same as being on the broad road. If the narrow way and gate is not Judaism that doesn't mean it is Jesus.

Matt 11:25-30 (AKJV)
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them to babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in your sight.
27 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


The yoke is the law. Less laws but still laws. Law against blasphemy for example.

[Tom]

I would like to post a brief paper I have written concerning what Jesus was speaking of regarding the narrow gate and difficult way. Find it as an attatchment with this post. Thank you.

Here is a link to the free download of Word Viewer for those of us who don't have Microsoft Office.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=4

For those of you who can't get Word Viewer, here is the text of the .doc file.

                                                        "Is Jesus the Narrow Way?

The following passages are usually taken as Jesus speaking of Himself being the narrow door or narrow gate. But Consider that the narrow gate and door is Judaism.

  Matt 7:12 All those things, then, which you would have men do to you, even so do you to them: because this is the law and the prophets.
V. 13 Go in by the narrow door; for wide is the door and open is the way which goes to destruction and great numbers go in by it.
V. 14 for narrow is the door and hard the road to life and only a small number
make discovery of it.
  Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the narrow gate: for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
1.)   Neither Jesus nor the Scripture call Jesus 'the narrow gate or difficult way.'
   Many times in Scripture Jesus describes Himself with the words "I AM..."
John 6:51:"I AM the living bread."
John 8:12:  I AM the light of the world."
John 10:9: "I AM the door."
John 10:11: "I AM the good shepherd."
John 15:1: "I AM the true vine."
But Jesus never says "I AM the narrow gate." Or "I AM the difficult way." He could've called himself any of these but He did not. He says He Is The Only Way, but never the Narrow, Difficult, Hidden Way.
  2.) Would any doctrine change had He clearly stated He was the door, gate, or way we should work to enter?
If we read these verses as though He spoke of Himself that would mean He taught that salvation is a result of working hard yet still not making it. They could read something like this:
   Luke 13:24 "I AM the narrow gate. Strive to enter in by me, the narrow gate: for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in by me and shall not be able.
   Matt 7:14 "Narrow is the door and hard the road to life. I AM the narrow door and only a small number find Me."
   This is salvation by keeping the Law.
  3.) Might something change if one believes Jesus isn't the narrow way, but that Judaism is? 
Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi speaking to Jews. In Matt.7:12 He is talking to Jews. He came for the Jews. Matthew 10:5-6; Matthew 15:24.
  So, if Jesus is not the narrow, difficult gate and path and we can put these terms within the religious timeframe in which they were spoken a great shift in our view of His work on the cross will occur. The relentless pursuit of God for us and His constant desire for relationship with us can finally make sense. Luke 14: 16-23 can take on a new light as His servants compel many to come. Not just a few. This change of perspective can help us see that we can easily become His children and run into His wide open arms. 
  The gate has been made easily accessible by Jesus. He made the gate and the path open to everyone when, at His death the VEIL, which separated everyone from God, WAS TORN DOWN from top to bottom.
2Cor 3:14 but (the Jews) minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that It Is Done Away In Christ.!
2Cor 3:15 "but unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart." There is no veil. The barrier between God and man is gone! We can now see God as the Prodigal Son's Father. He watches for all to come to Him. When we do He runs toward us.
                                                                      Bob Collins
                                                                        ©2012"

"12 All, then, whatever you should be wanting that men should be doing to you, thus you, also, be doing to them, for this is the law and the prophets.
13 "Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.
14 Yet what a cramped gate and narrowed way is the one leading away into life, and few are those who are finding it." (Matthew 7:12-14)

"12 Compare Lu.6:31.

12 To do as we would be done by is an ethical standard far above the world's attainment, yet far beneath the monitions of grace. The law and the prophets demand compliance with this code, yet supply no power to carry it out. Grace gives the ability, yet makes no demands, but rather entreats us to do as we have been done by in our dealings with God, rather than man.

13-14 Compare Lu.13:24.

13 The crowds enter a city by the broad road which passes through the wide gate. The narrow side-paths leading to a narrow gateway in some retired corner were seldom used and were always shut in the daytime and locked at night. Few find or use these paths. This is not an illustration of the gospel, but of the law. It represents an effort to attain life. It is not stated that few find life, but few find the path to it. All life is God's gift and can never be made by man, either in the sphere of religion or of science." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 19)

[fortytworc]

The yoke is the law. Less laws but still laws. Law against blasphemy for example.

White Wings: I believe the yoke is the teaching of the Rabbi.

[WhiteWings]

Correct. Jesus was one of them.

Please read this post: http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136452/#msg136452

[sheila]

narrow gate shut up at night......the very reason He says walk inthe light while ye have the light

    all things are lawfull[613]..but not all things are expiediant.....

     LOVE does NOT bind up heavy loads on men..impossible for men to bear............saadducees

and Pharisees  will[offspring of vipers] they are unwilling tolift their little finger.....

   eventhe Holy spirit declared a few necessary things...........see1Kings 12;13


        legalistic hard hearts will and do bind up heavy loads[oppresive laws/decree's]impossible

     to bear.


     the children are free from the temple tax..but in order that we don't stumble them.....
.

    it was easy fortherich men tooffer a bullock,goat  etc for his sin..to the preists.....but not

any easy thing to the poor....thus  when a rich man come he had his camelloaded down with

much to offer at the temple..

    thus the disciples were greatly astounded andasked 'who then can be saved?'

go sell your possessions andgive to the poor..andthencome follow me....thusitis easier

for acamel togothrough the eye ofaneedle[ then forarichman toenter the Kingdom.....the narrow

gateis the eyeof the needle.

     the worship at thetemple in Jerusalem and allit's requirements had become a hardship

onthe poor...why should the worshipping ofGod be more difficult for a poor man......

  why JesusandHisdisciple'shad to have miracle of provision to pay rquired temple tax.

itis the same today...when something meant as a kindness is turned  into a hardship...


e;xdeath infamily..andfuneralexpenses.people used to carry infood tothe mourning family

if you were a member of church..church would dothis tocomfort.

  now it has become a great hardship onthe poor...for not only dothey have the funeral expense

  they are nowexpected to feed all the funeral attendee's!!!  I have seen poor families

struggling to see to this very thing.

     the widow's mite and equity of judgement ofGod



   there is an account in 1 Kings 12;13...'Lighten the yoke your Father put on us"

      the younger men counseled......My little finger is thicker then my father's waist........

        My Father scourged you with whips...I will scourge you with scorpions.....thus..wefind

  in the revelation of Christ those sealed suffer not the 5 months of locusts scorpion tail stings

   many stripes tothe wicked servant...a whip to the moneychangers...repentofthe work

of your hands[laying up heavy loads onthe people] impossible to bear[in whatever maanner

   they would do to the two wittnesses..in the like manner it would be done untothem]

   fire comes out of theirmouths/=any tongue that rises up and condemns you..you shall

condemn....

      there is no longer a temple ta xbecause in that city there is no temple in it.

   at present..due to still inthis fleshly body..we have caesar's tax...funeral expenses etc

  income taxetc

    this isjust some ofmy 'ponderings'onthese things........ :Chinscratch:

[jbertonbounds]

LAW + MAN = DEATH
LAW + JESUS = LIFE

We all sin, and the law requires that sin be punished by death.
Jesus paid the debt by dying at the cross, fulfilling the requirement of the law.

[sheila]

  God has provided all menwith the passover Lamb...just as a ram inthe bush was provided for

  Abraham.  Thesacrifices required under law have beenfulfilled forus 'poor inspirit' relatives

[jabcat]

  God has provided all menwith the passover Lamb...just as a ram inthe bush was provided for

  Abraham.  Thesacrifices required under law have beenfulfilled forus 'poor inspirit' relatives

LAW + MAN = DEATH
LAW + JESUS = LIFE

We all sin, and the law requires that sin be punished by death.
Jesus paid the debt by dying at the cross, fulfilling the requirement of the law.

Amen.   :2thumbs:  Worthy is the Lamb.

[fortytworc]

When I realized that Jesus was not the narrow, hidden, difficult, hard to find, to enter and to walk in gate, way, path, etc. I saw His life ,love, pursuit of and sacrifice for me and the world in a clearer more focused way. He has made the entrance into Himself as open and easy as He can for all the world.(Thus part of the title of this paper 'a small step toward Christian Universalism'). The barriers are done away with in Jesus. He is not trying to keep out as many as He can. The Good News is really good news for all.
He is the Light. In Him there is no darkness. Where He is there is Light everyplace all the time. He really does love all of us.

[jbertonbounds]

I'm going to be bold and disagree with you, with all due respect and humility.  I do not believe Jesus was saying that Judaism was the narrow gate.  Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."  A gate is a way in, like a door, a passageway.  Jesus said "through me," such as one might pass "through" a gate.  There was a narrow gate, and a broad gate.  One was narrow, symbolizing a low traffic count.  The other was broad, symbolizing that most will use it instead.  IMO, this is a metaphor symbolizing how mankind will come to the Father - a few will find the Jesus gate, but most will go through the other way, the lake of fire.

Now there does seem to be a contradiction between these two passages of scripture:
Mat 7.12-14 -  "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.  For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
AND
Mat 11:30 - "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

HOWEVER, IMO:
Upon further study, these passages are used in different contexts.  The gate passage is used to indicate the quantities of people who will enter each gate.  The broad gate is easy because all you have to do is nothing - just follow your self-will, take care of ole number one, and live it up.  The narrow gate is hard to find because, as all of you should know, the truth is hidden for the seekers.  And it is difficult for a person to overcome self-will.  This difficulty has nothing to do with the yoke passage.  The yoke passage is used to indicate that Jesus freed us from the burdens of the man-made precepts the world so loves to create and enforce upon God's children (as with the Pharisees).  The yoke is the guiding component of the plowing outfit used on oxen.  Jesus audience was very familiar with oxen, plows, yokes, and beasts of burden.  They understood that Jesus was talking about bearing a heavy burden of Pharisee rules, and they longed to lighten that burden. 

[jabcat]

  IMO, this is a metaphor symbolizing how mankind will come to the Father - a few will find the Jesus gate, but most will go through the other way, the lake of fire.

I had said earlier that I thought Bob's view made a lot of sense, and now I'll say the same for yours jb.  Either way one takes the specifics of the narrow way, Jesus did say He is the way and no one comes but through Him.  So if it's Bob's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses.  OTOH, if it's jb's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses (the conditions being set for confession/rebirth as through fire).  So IMO, the end result is really still the same.   :2c:    The only difference might be in THIS life/age, where Bob's view might have more people getting saved now, while jb's view would be that less are saved now.  So do we believe most are coming to Jesus in this life, or do we believe most are still in darkness and won't see, come, taste until the consummation?  I guess I'd still lean to the latter.  Now can both views reconcile somehow, or is it one or the other...

[fortytworc]

I'm going to be bold and disagree with you, with all due respect and humility.  I do not believe Jesus was saying that Judaism was the narrow gate.  Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." 

Now there does seem to be a contradiction between these two passages of scripture:
Mat 7.12-14 -  "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.  For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
AND
Mat 11:30 - "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

HOWEVER, IMO:
  The broad gate is easy because all you have to do is nothing - just follow your self-will, take care of ole number one, and live it up.  The narrow gate is hard to find because, as all of you should know, the truth is hidden for the seekers.  And it is difficult for a person to overcome self-will.  This difficulty has nothing to do with the yoke passage.  The yoke passage is used to indicate that Jesus freed us from the burdens of the man-made precepts the world so loves to create and enforce upon God's children (as with the Pharisees).  The yoke is the guiding component of the plowing outfit used on oxen.  Jesus audience was very familiar with oxen, plows, yokes, and beasts of burden.  They understood that Jesus was talking about bearing a heavy burden of Pharisee rules, and they longed to lighten that burden.

I do apprecate your approach and humility. I used to participate in a Christian board which seemed to be filled with angry know everything people. I welcome discussion and disagreement done with kindness. As to your disagreements: My paper mentions that Jesus said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life...I believe this shows a difference in that He never said "I am the Narrow,or Difficult,or Hard to find Way." I believe Jesus is the Only Way to salvation. I also mention in some later remarks that even if I am wrong about the Judaism part the case,IMO is pretty strong that the narrow, hard to find,etc. part is not Jesus. Whatever it is, it is not Him. There are too many places where God makes it clear that He pursues us, and has made every effort to reveal Himself and His love for us. He is the One who remove the veil of separation.
If I may wih humility mention some thoughts on your remarks about the broad and narrow gates. You say "The broad gate is easy because all you have to do is nothing - just follow your self-will, take care of ole number one, and live it up. The narrow gate is hard to find because, as all of you should know, the truth is hidden for the seekers.  And it is difficult for a person to overcome self-will... The yoke passage is used to indicate that Jesus freed us from the burdens of the man-made precepts the world so loves to create and enforce upon God's children (as with the Pharisees). May I say that it seems to me that in giving your reasons why the easy way is easy and the hard way is hard you put yourself in the same situation as the Pharasees with man made precepts placed on others. More is assumed by you as to the Why of these things; where IMO my position has more Scriptural support. With humility,fortytworc 

[Ross]

Interesting comparison about narrow gates;
when handling sheep ready for counting/shearing/treating etc one usually has a gate which only allows one at a time.
A narrow gate of Christ being the way highlights even more that we are individuals among many and He treats us one at a time as we enter through Him.

[fortytworc]

  IMO, this is a metaphor symbolizing how mankind will come to the Father - a few will find the Jesus gate, but most will go through the other way, the lake of fire.

I had said earlier that I thought Bob's view made a lot of sense, and now I'll say the same for yours jb.  Either way one takes the specifics of the narrow way, Jesus did say He is the way and no one comes but through Him.  So if it's Bob's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses.  OTOH, if it's jb's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses (the conditions being set for confession/rebirth as through fire).  So IMO, the end result is really still the same.   :2c:    The only difference might be in THIS life/age, where Bob's view might have more people getting saved now, while jb's view would be that less are saved now.  So do we believe most are coming to Jesus in this life, or do we believe most are still in darkness and won't see, come, taste until the consummation?  I guess I'd still lean to the latter.  Now can both views reconcile somehow, or is it one or the other...

I think what you present sounds good. We may not know until we enter eternity if more are saved now or later.I guess that depends on your view of some of the differing details in universalism. The importance for me in seeing Jesus as not the hard...etc.way is in the effect it has on my relationship day to day with Jesus. How do I percieve Him as He is revealed in Scripture. Believe me, it makes a difference. Is He a whip cracking harsh disciplinarian who waits for me to mess up? Or can I easily walk with Him, rest in His arms and not have to hide when I do need His corection? Does His rod and staf comfort me or crack my head? I've been of both views, The latter is, I believe, better and more accurate. Thank you

[jabcat]

my relationship day to day with Jesus. How do I percieve Him as He is revealed in Scripture. Believe me, it makes a difference. Is He a whip cracking harsh disciplinarian who waits for me to mess up? Or can I easily walk with Him, rest in His arms and not have to hide when I do need His corection? Does His rod and staf comfort me or crack my head? Thank you

That's what I've been more focusing on, what the relationship is like, am I struggling and fretting or am I depending on Him and trusting that His yoke is indeed easy, and what does that mean as I interact with Him day to day.  Amen, thank you.  Blessings, James.

[fortytworc]

I was thinking on my last post and realized I had gotten just a little off track. Though in my day to day relationship with God I want to be like Adam and Eve, having close, easy, intimate times with Him I should want that to be solidly based on the Scriptures. In regards to my beliefs that Jesus is not the narrow way I still can say the Scripture is what I am grounded on.
If I am to understand that Jesus is saying (Paraphrasing)Luke 13:24 "I AM the narrow gate. Strive to enter in by me, the narrow gate: for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in by me and shall not be able.
   Matt 7:14 "Narrow is the door and hard the road to life. I AM the narrow door and only a small number find Me."
then salvation is by works. And even then my seeking and hard work will probably position me as one of the majority who "seek to enter in by Him and shall not be able."If He is hidden except for the seekers why do even they not truly find Him? So, I end up with as solid Biblical description of a Savior Who Loves to do all He can to reveal Himself in order to have that intimate day by day walk. It is, as they say, a win win situation.

[WhiteWings]

My paper mentions that Jesus said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life...I believe this shows a difference in that He never said "I am the Narrow,or Difficult,or Hard to find Way."

You say "The broad gate is easy because all you have to do is nothing - just follow your self-will, take care of ole number one, and live it up. The narrow gate is hard to find because, as all of you should know, the truth is hidden for the seekers.  And it is difficult for a person to overcome self-will... The yoke passage is used to indicate that Jesus freed us from the burdens of the man-made precepts the world so loves to create and enforce upon God's children (as with the Pharisees).

May I say that it seems to me that in giving your reasons why the easy way is easy and the hard way is hard you put yourself in the same situation as the Pharasees with man made precepts placed on others. More is assumed by you as to the Why of these things; where IMO my position has more Scriptural support.

I'm not so sure about Scriptual support. Let's try to align some of the relevant verses.

Jesus said He's the way/gate. Jesus is the only way to salvation, so if we find Jesus we find the gate.

Jesus spoke about a wide and a narrow gate. The narrow gate is the positive gate. The wide gate the negative one. Obviously Jesus is the narrow gate.

Conclusion so far: Narrow gate = Jesus = path to salvation.

Light and heavy yokes/burdens.
The yoke of Jesus was light. A yoke is a teaching. http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136452/#msg136452

Conclusion so far: Narrow gate = Jesus = path to salvation = light yoke = 'light' teaching.

Also review reply #23 which connects law with gate.


So the gate is about teaching, laws etc.
Of course faith, works and grace can't be left out of the picture. I'll start a new thread about that because, imo, the vast majority of Christians don't know what faith and works are/mean from a Biblical perspective.

  :Peace2:

[fortytworc]

It seems to me that what we have is:
Matt.7:13
1.)   There is a wide door
2.)   There is an open way
3.)   The wide door and open way lead to destruction
4.)    Many enter the wide door and open way
Matt.7:14
5.)   There is a narrow door
6.)   There is a hard way
7.)   The narrow door and hard way lead to life
8.)   Only a few discover the narrow door and hard way
Luke 13:24
9.)   We are to Strive to enter in at the narrow gate
10.)    Many will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

So far we have: Wide Door and Open way=Destruction + Many enter here=Many destroyed
                             Narrow Door and Hard Way + only a few even discover it +Those who work hard (strive) to enter this gate will not be able to do so = Those few who discover this gate and way which leads to life cannot enter it= destruction

What we don't have: Jesus does not say He is any of these doors, gates, and ways.
What we don't have: any place in the Scripture: Jesus saying it is hard, difficult or near impossible to enter into life through Himself
What we don't have here or any place in Scripture: Jesus saying we are to strive to enter life through Him or that once we find Him as our way into life we will be SOL even if we work hard.
Conclusion:  Jesus is not a narrow door, a wide door, a narrow gate, a hard way, hard to discover.
I am really not trying to be difficult here. It's just that I have heard that these verses taught about Jesus being the narrow hard to find, hard to enter gate since I was 10 years old. I always accepted that. But I truly believe that He recently showed me that I had been taught wrong. Not that anyone was a heretic or that my view is always correct. But I have really seen a way to read these verses that is more in line with God's character than the other way.

[WhiteWings]

1-5] Agreed.
9] Agreed.

What we don't have: Jesus does not say He is any of these doors, gates, and ways.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus clearly states He's the way. Factoid: Easly Christians called themselves followers of the path/way.
"through" can be read as a gate.

What we don't have: any place in the Scripture: Jesus saying it is hard, difficult or near impossible to enter into life through Himself

Luke 13:24 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

For some reason it sounds difficult.... Perhaps the reason is:
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

But none of that means the teachings of Jesus as difficult. His yoke is light. The Pharisee/Mosaic yoke was very heavy.

What we don't have here or any place in Scripture: Jesus saying we are to strive to enter life through Him

I think that's exactly what Scripture says. Not only that it says it's the only way. --> THE way not A way.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

or that once we find Him as our way into life we will be SOL even if we work hard.

What is SOL?

Conclusion:  Jesus is not a narrow door, a wide door, a narrow gate, a hard way, hard to discover.

I guess it's no surprise I disagree  :winkgrin:


Summary of my thoughts:
- Jesus is the way, road, narrow gate.
- Many won't find it because they keep following their own set of laws
- It can only be found when Father starts drawing at the time He picks.

I am really not trying to be difficult here. It's just that I have heard that these verses taught about Jesus being the narrow hard to find, hard to enter the gate since I was 10 years old. I always accepted that. But I truly believe that He recently showed me that I had been taught wrong. Not that anyone was a heretic or that my view is always correct. But I have really seen a way to read these verses that is more in line with God's character than the other way.

It's good to think outside the box. But not everything outside the box is good. When we find a new box we must be prepared to think out of that box too.

:2c:

[jbertonbounds]

  IMO, this is a metaphor symbolizing how mankind will come to the Father - a few will find the Jesus gate, but most will go through the other way, the lake of fire.

I had said earlier that I thought Bob's view made a lot of sense, and now I'll say the same for yours jb. Either way one takes the specifics of the narrow way, Jesus did say He is the way and no one comes but through Him. So if it's Bob's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses.  OTOH, if it's jb's view, then I still believe the many/rest won't come through Jesus until later, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses (the conditions being set for confession/rebirth as through fire).  So IMO, the end result is really still the same.   :2c:    The only difference might be in THIS life/age, where Bob's view might have more people getting saved now, while jb's view would be that less are saved now.  So do we believe most are coming to Jesus in this life, or do we believe most are still in darkness and won't see, come, taste until the consummation?  I guess I'd still lean to the latter.  Now can both views reconcile somehow, or is it one or the other...

Absolutely. :thumbsup: Either way, Jesus is the one who purchased mankind, and no one will come to the Father but through him. 

BTW, Often when I share UR with Et'ers, they say, "So you're saying Jesus is not the only way?"  Dang!

[ded2daworld]

WW said, "It's good to think outside the box. But not everything outside the box is good. When we find a new box we must be prepared to think out of that box too."

Simply profound! :thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

1-5] Agreed.
9] Agreed.

What we don't have: Jesus does not say He is any of these doors, gates, and ways.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus clearly states He's the way. Factoid: Easly Christians called themselves followers of the path/way.
"through" can be read as a gate.

What we don't have: any place in the Scripture: Jesus saying it is hard, difficult or near impossible to enter into life through Himself

Luke 13:24 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

For some reason it sounds difficult.... Perhaps the reason is:
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

But none of that means the teachings of Jesus as difficult. His yoke is light. The Pharisee/Mosaic yoke was very heavy.

What we don't have here or any place in Scripture: Jesus saying we are to strive to enter life through Him

I think that's exactly what Scripture says. Not only that it says it's the only way. --> THE way not A way.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

or that once we find Him as our way into life we will be SOL even if we work hard.

What is SOL?

Conclusion:  Jesus is not a narrow door, a wide door, a narrow gate, a hard way, hard to discover.

I guess it's no surprise I disagree  :winkgrin:


Summary of my thoughts:
- Jesus is the way, road, narrow gate.
- Many won't find it because they keep following their own set of laws
- It can only be found when Father starts drawing at the time He picks.

I am really not trying to be difficult here. It's just that I have heard that these verses taught about Jesus being the narrow hard to find, hard to enter the gate since I was 10 years old. I always accepted that. But I truly believe that He recently showed me that I had been taught wrong. Not that anyone was a heretic or that my view is always correct. But I have really seen a way to read these verses that is more in line with God's character than the other way.

It's good to think outside the box. But not everything outside the box is good. When we find a new box we must be prepared to think out of that box too.

:2c:

Hey WW,  :thumbsup:.

[jbertonbounds]

My paper mentions that Jesus said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life...I believe this shows a difference in that He never said "I am the Narrow,or Difficult,or Hard to find Way."

You say "The broad gate is easy because all you have to do is nothing - just follow your self-will, take care of ole number one, and live it up. The narrow gate is hard to find because, as all of you should know, the truth is hidden for the seekers.  And it is difficult for a person to overcome self-will... The yoke passage is used to indicate that Jesus freed us from the burdens of the man-made precepts the world so loves to create and enforce upon God's children (as with the Pharisees).

May I say that it seems to me that in giving your reasons why the easy way is easy and the hard way is hard you put yourself in the same situation as the Pharasees with man made precepts placed on others. More is assumed by you as to the Why of these things; where IMO my position has more Scriptural support.

I'm not so sure about Scriptual support. Let's try to align some of the relevant verses.

Jesus said He's the way/gate. Jesus is the only way to salvation, so if we find Jesus we find the gate.

Jesus spoke about a wide and a narrow gate. The narrow gate is the positive gate. The wide gate the negative one. Obviously Jesus is the narrow gate.

Conclusion so far: Narrow gate = Jesus = path to salvation.

Light and heavy yokes/burdens.
The yoke of Jesus was light. A yoke is a teaching. http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136452/#msg136452

Conclusion so far: Narrow gate = Jesus = path to salvation = light yoke = 'light' teaching.

Also review reply #23 which connects law with gate.


So the gate is about teaching, laws etc.
Of course faith, works and grace can't be left out of the picture. I'll start a new thread about that because, imo, the vast majority of Christians don't know what faith and works are/mean from a Biblical perspective.

  :Peace2:

:iagree:

[jbertonbounds]

May I say that it seems to me that in giving your reasons why the easy way is easy and the hard way is hard you put yourself in the same situation as the Pharasees with man made precepts placed on others.

Really?  I don't believe I placed any Pharisee-istic man-made precepts on anyone.  How do you mean this?

[fortytworc]

When you say "The broad gate is easy because... The narrow gate is hard to find because... The reasons you give are not given her. The why is not explained. You do not come across as heavy handed and maybe I could have phrased my observation differently. I do not mean to say you are like a pharisee. Forgive me if that is how it sounded. I know for myself, it is easy to 'see' where someone else needs to fall in line to be living as I think. So when you gave reasons why others may be or not be on a given way or at a given gate I guess I read my own inclinations into you, which was wrong of me to do. Please forgive me.
On another note, you say " the truth is hidden for the seekers. when Jesus said "many will seek to enter but will not be able...?
Thanks for your patience with me.