Chamber of Hewn Stones and the Second Death

[WhiteWings]

The Temple curtain/veil was really huge. 60feet heigh x 30 feet wide x 0.25 feet thick.
Estimated weight 4-6 tons. Took 300 priests to carry/open it.
The weight of the stone lintel the curtain hung on was 30 tons.

When Jesus gave up the ghost there was an earthquake. The lintel broke and ripped the veil in half.
The falling lintel also damaged the Chamber of Hewn Stones. The high court where the priests sentenced Jesus to death.
Priests could only pass a death sentence when in the Chamber of Hewn Stones.
But that chamber was badly damaged so they couldn't go there anymore. Other sources state the event Pilate limited the authority of the Sanhedrin and moved them to the Trading room. (they never returned) So from that point on they couldn't pass a death sentence anymore.

If the Temple is a pattern Heaven how can the Judge in heaven pass a death sentence? (LoF the 2nd death)
Yeah I know God is higher than those priests; I also know God follows His own patterns.
:Yeahright:

[sheila]

   He doesn't  the sheep inherit the Kingdom,when He seperates goats from sheep...men are sheep...scapegoats[sin in flesh/evil spirits] go into destruction

    YOU MEN ARE SHEEP AND I AM GOD.......Jesus bought back ALL men. Mankind only expierence first resurrection...if not while alive in flesh..

    then at death[end of 1000 year reign, 930 years old Adam and 70 years Last Adam..for 1000 years or DAY OF GOD'S JUDGEMENT].

    the resurrection post death of the righteous is for man. still 1st resurrection].and the resurrection of the wicked is satan released from the abyss to go forth and deceive

for a short time   [see legion cast into swine ...begging not to be abyssed...to have a demon abyssed is to bind him from going forth and deceiving man...

  it is a place of inactivity/death...to send into LOF is the total end of something..such as death..going there...and death being no more

[WhiteWings]

So for you the goats are just the dross of the gold?

[marie glen]

The falling lintel also damaged the Chamber of Hewn Stones. The high court where the priests sentenced Jesus to death.
Priests could only pass a death sentence when in the Chamber of Hewn Stones."

That's awesome! I've never heard that before..!!

This whole thing (life as we know it) imo, is the proving of what works and what cannot..

..before anyone can "be like Christ" (surely?) they have to understand and fully know good from evil, which is (imo) also life from death, and true from untrue..

All part and parcel of His Great Plan(ning) that all fully comprehend good from evil.

Showing every single one "in heaven and earth" what would be the natural (uninterfered with) result of becoming im-perfect, the opposite of God/Life/Perfection, which would be the opposite of life.. (and in chains, as imperfection can not reverse its course and become perfect, but are "in chains awaiting judgment"/or that is, awaiting the natural results and outcome of imperfection, opposite of God/Purity/Life.

But! this also tells us that God can only BE perfect. Or, He too would fade...

Therefor, imo, the only possible outcome of all this (the outcome of life as we presently know it, this veil, and human history) can only be, The Best One Possible. Because Perfection makes no mistakes.

[sheila]

  the 'hewn' stnes are not cut out by human hands..but by God nd His spirit.  they devestate...the false image...........

     idol...in book of Daniel...God's judgements destroy man's false deceived blind shrouded partial light judgements......

        the stone becomes a mountain that fills te earth.  It is a mountain of Blessing of God for man..not a curse...

    no mre curse..oon that mountain  a new song is sung...NO LIE WAS FOUND IN THEIR MOUTHS...

     the HOUR OF HIS JUDGEMENT....HAS COME[thus judge nothing before the proper time]  then Babylon falls[Nebs

   image/Daniels vision]

   when His judgements come,He promises nthing hidden will not be revealed......LIGHT  for those that see through a glass

darkly....grey areas will cleaar up....Man will understand..and not be an easy target for every lying deceiving spirit out there.

[WhiteWings]

Sheila can plz answer my question about the goats?

[sheila]

scapegoats picture that wicked generation[that perish in the wilderness and do not enter into the Holy city]

   flesh and blood caan not inherit.  two goats..one lot for the Lord nd one lot for Azazael.  zzaels lot are the goat shaped demons

spoken of in the nscriptures.WW..

   the Shulamite is a little goat shepherdess...she joins her flock with His ...tell me,you whom I love ,where you graze

your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday[Highest light]

    as sheep and goats are seperated....God's lot and Azaazael's lot....goat from goat

[WhiteWings]

the Shulamite is a little goat shepherdess...

Wasn't she a 'scarecrow' in the vineyard?

[WhiteWings]

scapegoats picture that wicked generation[that perish in the wilderness and do not enter into the Holy city]

   flesh and blood caan not inherit.  two goats..one lot for the Lord nd one lot for Azazael.  zzaels lot are the goat shaped demons

The ones that are said to be clung to us?

[sheila]

well,WW if she be perceived as such..it is surely for this reason.  Proverbs 30;17  the eye that mocks a father and

scorns obediance unto a mother will be pecked out by the ravens of the valley

[WhiteWings]

Well your view that the goats are demons kinda 'solves' this verse

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

If those at the left hand are humans God changed His mind. If they are demons there is no such change of mind because demons are (ofspring of) angels.

[sheila]

Yep...they are what He seperates us from.....man receives the Kingdom prepared for him.

[JulieTang84]

Yep...they are what He seperates us from.....man receives the Kingdom prepared for him.

What then of this dear Sheila  :HeartThrob:

1Cr 3:11. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,

1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.

1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Many times people have told me that this could not possibly happen, yet Paul clearly states that though this person, loses everything, this person will be saved as if by fire.

What fire?

Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

Yes, God is the "Spiritual" fire that will burn for ever, for all eternity. Nothing or no one will ever extinguish Him. One can see that the fire of God is just like the supposed Hell fire. Does this mean that the fire will burn away man's sinful nature forever? Of course not, as Paul stated above: the fire will burn only while there are impurities to burn. Just like a fire burning in a forest, it can only burn while there is something to burn.

But what is the real purpose of this fire? Not what you might assume. Read on.

Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.

Yes, every impurity will be washed away, and Gods children ALL OF THEM NOT A SELECT FEW. will be as pure as white snow.

Man will be saved as if by fire. Father will cleanse everything including Satan himself. He will be as a brother.

Love Julie.   :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

we escape through the flames when He seperates misleading evil spirits that have had us involved in 'sin works'

    He come to break up the works of the devil,and shall.  Deceived man and overcome man..is used of the devil

to do his works in men's flesh[pleses note how satan entered Judas,and on pharisee and sadducee brought forth

the 'works of the devil" and if they had known they would not of crucified the Lord oof Glory..but the kingdom of darkness

that deceives the entire inhabited earth[dark shroud that covers]......  thus, Jesus cry Father forgive them they know not what the

y do...thus men that re deceived and think they do God a favour when they kill you..shall find those works burnt up..s

as a wrk of the devil/not  service to God....escape as through the fire..when God cnsumes such works as stubble./tares


     Now Jesus works is of the Father..for the salvation of man...He asked the offspring f viper on the pharisees nd saducees

   'WHO WILL SAVE YOU FROM THE Wrath.The salvation f man is God's glory....His will being done both in heaven and

on earth..deliver us from the wicked one


   Furthermore,God has maade a distinction between man and the fqallen angels.   Michael disputing over the body of Mses

with satan,said 'THE LORD REBUKE YOU!"  Jesus is satans rebuker...He showed himself rebuking evil spirits on men

  while here in His ministry..and the time will come when HE shall deal with all of them on a very large scale.


   Goodnews for man...bad news for satan and his demons.


   All Israel is not Israel..do you not know that satan and his angels are bastards? those born of God do nt sin..and dwell

in incorruptible vessels. If they were spirit sons of God they would not sin in spirit..nor in deed due to the incorruptible

body....

   it is appointed unto men to die once..it is appointed unto satan to die twice..as the twice dead.

   this is about seed producing after it's kind  and the enmity between the seeds...tares are burned up..so is chaff.........

   Jesus as kinsman redeemer..has raised up seed for dead Adam before God.  Adam and His progency,of which it was and is the

will oof God they be made in His likeness and have dominion on the earth..........not satan's rebellious bastard image.......

       God sowed good seed..an enemy come in the night and sowed tares.    let them bth grow until harvest......

then He sends His angels forth to seperate the tares and bind them foor burning...and brings the wheat into His barn...

    threshing at the threshing floor=seperation of the chff

   Luke 3;17  I baptize you with water,but one more powerful then I will come,the thongs of whose sandals I am unworthy

to untie He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor

and to gather the wheat into His barn,but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

   man's chaff[flesh and blood that can not enter/seed raised up with it's own spiritual body]  and demonic spirits[tares]

are burnt with unquenchable fire.   what is our chafff? our outerman/Adam with sin in flesh that perishes/this body

underging this death. what is our wheat? seed of God sown a natural man raised up in resurrection f Christ/righteus

what are the tares? seed sown of the enemy that brings forth after it's kind.....

     Did Jesus come in flesh to save the fallen angels?   they were shown to be unworthy when they said 'here is the son,the

heir..let us kill him nd seize the vineyard for ourself.  they spoke all day long 'I know who you are,Jesus you Nazarene"

  one follwed Paul around crying out '[Acts 16;16] These men are the servant's of the Mst High God who are telling you what

you must do to be saved"  Insted,when satan found himself cast unto the earth...he become wraathful because he knew his time

was short[God shortened for the sake of the elect,lest no flesh be saved] and begun a campaign f demonic madness upon

the earth.

   Sataan himself will suceed in causing fir to come down from heaven. Hw? look....he is released and goes forth t gather

Gog and Magog-to gather them for baattle..and to surrund the camp of the Holy city He loves..BUT FIRE COMES DOWN

FROM HEAVEN AND DEVOURS THEM...and this is how satan himself suceeds in causing fire to come down from heaven

   it is because of His gret love that ye sons of men are not cnsumed....and it is also because of His great love for us

that satan is.

   does a leoprd change his spots. or do you make a silk purse  out of a sows  ear?


.


     

 

[WhiteWings]

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Taken very literally the above verse aligns perfectly with what I wrote in reply#10.

If a man just dies once he can't be part of the second death, because obviously that means die twice.
But the 2nd death is a different type of death than the first one so I'm not sure we should take it that literally. People also are said to "die to one self".
But they don't literally die at that moment but they die literally later. On top of that those that died to themselves (get rid of their old nature) quite often fall back into sin and later return to the narrow path again. Then they die again.
In that case they died thrice.

So 10x  :dontknow:

[mplsfitter539]

Great thread by the way.

I have pondered the second death myself and so far have concluded IMO that one can either be experiencing death on this side of the grave, or on the other side of the grave there is a second death. Those on this side of the grave who experience death (to self, carnal man, old adam) do not have to go through it (death) ever again. Those that have not experienced death (to self) must experience death (to self) after their resurrection...... 1 Corinthians 15:23 This will happen to each person in his own turn. Christ is the first, then at his coming, those who belong to him will be made alive......Their resurrection will be in their own turn.

[eaglesway]

Great thread by the way.

I have pondered the second death myself and so far have concluded IMO that one can either be experiencing death on this side of the grave, or on the other side of the grave there is a second death. Those on this side of the grave who experience death (to self, carnal man, old adam) do not have to go through it (death) ever again. Those that have not experienced death (to self) must experience death (to self) after their resurrection...... 1 Corinthians 15:23 This will happen to each person in his own turn. Christ is the first, then at his coming, those who belong to him will be made alive......Their resurrection will be in their own turn.

Thats how I see it too, defining death to self as faith in Jesus Christ, from His sacrifice that makes grace available for discipleship to Him as believers and children of God.

[WhiteWings]

well,WW if she be perceived as such..it is surely for this reason.  Proverbs 30;17  the eye that mocks a father and

scorns obediance unto a mother will be pecked out by the ravens of the valley

SOS 1:6  ...keeper of the vineyards.

If I'm informed correctly such a person ran through the grapevine all day and waved a cloth whenever birds sat down.

[sheila]

ah?? and Babylon has become a cage of unclean birds. maybe she helps...'catch us the little

foxes,that spoil the vineyard"? too.

  I had no idea....there is a scripture in OT about a womanwho shooed birds from carcass

of her husband.  and this is what Abraham did.  Genesis 15;11

[Lazarus Short]

The builders of the Temple rejected a certain stone for use as the cornerstone.  Some believe it was the Stone of Destiny, a replica of which resides under the coronation chair in England.  The real one was stolen in the 1950's (before the coronation of Elizabeth II, so she's not the legitimate Queen) by Scottish nationalists, and remains hidden to this day.  It contains a flaw in the middle, which excludes it from structural use.  We don't know if this stone was the LITERAL Stone that the Builders Rejected, but given its history, I believe it.

On the other hand, the lintel was chosen and approved by men, but proved inadequate to the judgment of God.  Keep in mind that the lintel carried the heavy curtain which separated men from the Holy of Holies. 

The way is now clear, with no threat of death, with the age-long barrier thrown down, to the very presence of God. 

[sheila]

 so then....the cheif cornerstone that the builders rejected...makes the people scott-free?

  is the flaw in the middle...flaw=if in legal paper may nullify it....thinking of legal/lawcovenant

  andthe flawof condemning a n innocentman..............

      also acrack in chamber of hewnstone?  just throwing out stuff!

[rosered]

The Temple curtain/veil was really huge. 60feet heigh x 30 feet wide x 0.25 feet thick.
Estimated weight 4-6 tons. Took 300 priests to carry/open it.
The weight of the stone lintel the curtain hung on was 30 tons.

When Jesus gave up the ghost there was an earthquake. The lintel broke and ripped the veil in half.
The falling lintel also damaged the Chamber of Hewn Stones. The high court where the priests sentenced Jesus to death.
Priests could only pass a death sentence when in the Chamber of Hewn Stones.
But that chamber was badly damaged so they couldn't go there anymore. Other sources state the event Pilate limited the authority of the Sanhedrin and moved them to the Trading room. (they never returned) So from that point on they couldn't pass a death sentence anymore.

If the Temple is a pattern Heaven how can the Judge in heaven pass a death sentence? (LoF the 2nd death)
Yeah I know God is higher than those priests; I also know God follows His own patterns.
:Yeahright:

Well going by what I just read here ,      the new covenant  was taking place   , Jesus started fulliffing the law  as   tasting death for every man .
and so He alone has the right to judge us  than .    If death is the last enemy   and its appointed for man to  die once and than the judgment  ,  its true   in the old testament    that the dead know nothing
  for me that means we have to be born again and learn   the spiritual things   , because the elememets of the natural realm    are a blazing fire of tests and trials for the new babe in Christ to
overcome   IN CHRIST  , who strengthens us  ,   we learn to lean  on Him  and totally dependant   for Him to sustain us ,   by the pure milk of the word  , we are not ready for meat  yet  and that is doing the will of the Father  , because we have now become   the temple of the LIVING GOD  a new stone white and ready to be placed  as the Lord chooses 
just what I can  say in the simple   truth as  my own     opinion ,   those whom are wise  in thier own eyes are still decieved  ,  I always remember   the WORD  saying , its our own hearts that decieve us than  , not the devil nor God its all  a matter of   heart /mindset . that contnues     to need to be changed as a garment  , like a brand plucked out of the fire .  ZECH 3 apparently the fires have always been  as trials to to be saved from  .
Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

[rosered]

so then....the cheif cornerstone that the builders rejected...makes the people scott-free?

  is the flaw in the middle...flaw=if in legal paper may nullify it....thinking of legal/lawcovenant

  andthe flawof condemning a n innocentman..............

      also acrack in chamber of hewnstone?  just throwing out stuff!

  I like this , seems a stone can take alot of fire and yet  stay  complete , unless the stone   gets to hot and  disinigrates under the pressure of trying to    serve God and be in the world whom  hates/enemy  of  God  and does not know Him .


3rd person singular present of dis·in·te·grate (Verb)Verb1.Break up into parts, typically as the result of impact or decay.
2.(of a society, family, or other social group) Weaken or break apart

  a broken spirit and contrite/crushed  heart the Lord will not despise



Psa 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Strong's H1794 - dakah
to crush, be crushed, be contrite, be broken
(Qal) to be crushed, collapse
(Niphal) to be crushed, be contrite, be broken
(Piel)
to crush down
to crush to pieces
Strong's H1793 - dakka'
n m
dust
adj
contrite

[WhiteWings]

ah?? and Babylon has become a cage of unclean birds. maybe she helps...'catch us the little

foxes,that spoil the vineyard"? too.

A "little fox" is a young male/boy from the Benjamite tribe looking for a bride because in Judges 20-21 we read the other tribes vowed not to marry daughters of the Benjamite tribe. That would cause the tribe to become exinct.
The dance of mahanaim was an annual feast for young women to show they were ready for marriage (Valentines day is the Roman version)
Young men would watch and select a potential bride. At this feast the foxes came and stole brides. (herod the fox)

Song 2:15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.

Vines/vineyards are (virgin) women.

Song 1:6 Look not on me, because I am black, because the sun has looked on me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but my own vineyard have I not kept.

:2c:

[rosered]

ah?? and Babylon has become a cage of unclean birds. maybe she helps...'catch us the little

foxes,that spoil the vineyard"? too.

A "little fox" is a male from the Benjamite tribe looking for a bride because in Judges 20-21 we read the other tribes vowed not to marry daughters of the Benjamite tribe. That would cause the tribe to become exinct.
The dance of mahanaim was an annual feast for young women to show they were ready for marriage (Valentines day is the Roman version)
Young men would watch and select a potential bride. At this feast the foxes came and stole brides. (herod the ox)

Song 2:15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.

Vines/vineyards are (virgin) women.

Song 1:6 Look not on me, because I am black, because the sun has looked on me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but my own vineyard have I not kept.

:2c:

Awesome , I can see this  !!   thanks for sharing this WW!!
 

made me think of some other scriptures too !

the tender grapes

  and the grapes of wrath and the  grapes for the winepress!

ps these   threads remind me of   of pistons  firing in differnt directions , but still in the same ENGINE   .lol   :laughing7: