Universal Salvation and solo scriptura

[Tom]

I personally prefer "monon graphe" to "sola scriptura" because I think the Greek manuscripts are more authentic than the Latin. I am an ex-Catholic from way back, and I agree that whatever else you're dealing with should agree with and not contradict scripture because I believe it is the inspired written word of God. That's the problem with church tradition, and I'm not just talking about the Catholic Church because the Protestant Church shares the same basic doctrine. I've had a mystical out of body experience, and it didn't contradict the word of God. It confirmed that God is light, God is love, and it directed me to scripture. So I consider it valid, but I don't base my belief on the mystical experience, only on the word of God. I have no use for church, ritual, or the false tradition of man that invalidates the word of God. So I'm good with "monon graphe."

Works for me.  When traditions just become something you do they start to mean nothing.  I remember reading the first chapter of Isaiah and saw God telling the Jews he was tired of their sacrifices and rote way of dealing with Him:  just going through the motions.

Amen, bro, that's the problem with church tradition, but "the word of God is living and operative." (Hebrews 4:12)

[jabcat]

I personally prefer "monon graphe" to "sola scriptura" because I think the Greek manuscripts are more authentic than the Latin. I am an ex-Catholic from way back, and I agree that whatever else you're dealing with should agree with and not contradict scripture because I believe it is the inspired written word of God. That's the problem with church tradition, and I'm not just talking about the Catholic Church because the Protestant Church shares the same basic doctrine. I've had a mystical out of body experience, and it didn't contradict the word of God. It confirmed that God is light, God is love, and it directed me to scripture. So I consider it valid, but I don't base my belief on the mystical experience, only on the word of God. I have no use for church, ritual, or the false tradition of man that invalidates the word of God. So I'm good with "monon graphe."

Works for me.  When traditions just become something you do they start to mean nothing.  I remember reading the first chapter of Isaiah and saw God telling the Jews he was tired of their sacrifices and rote way of dealing with Him:  just going through the motions.

Amen, bro, that's the problem with church tradition, but "the word of God is living and operative." (Hebrews 4:12)

Amen!   :2thumbs:

[eaglesway]

I agree that the Greek translations are superior in many ways to the Latin translations, but for me the measuring standard is how true they are to Hebrew thought and expression, rather than on the basis of word for word rendering, because the Greeks transliterated many of their own concepts and ideas and mythology into the word-as did the Romans and then later the English and the Germans.

IMO the only way to break through the veil of mistranslation is to go through both the Greek and the Latin into the Hebrew and Aramaic. Studying the writings of Moses, David and the prophets are the surest contextual background against which to compare, as Paul put it, "spiritual words with spiritual realities".

If our spiritual terms do not compare with spiritual realities........

such as Sheol vs Hades vs Hell(neither Hades or Hell compares with the spiritual reality of Sheol), or such as olam vs forever, eternal, everlasting......

we dont know what we are reading and speaking(altho we may be certain we do understand)

I think this language barrier is over estimated- I think the real barrier is in the ideological, philosophical and spiritual perspective changes when we read the scriptures from a Greco/Roman influenced English/European mind-set.

That is why the surest way to UNDERSTAND the scriptures what the MIND OF GOD is when He speaks a word(LOGOS-EXPRESSED THOUGHT) is to study them as a contextually integrated, unique expression of God's perspective on what is real.

I personally think it is this over-emphasis on individual words against a failure to grasp the scriptures in their topical contexts and historical contexts that is the reason for why people can miss the ABOUNDING EVIDENCE for the restoration of all things- because of how one word, such as olam or aion or kolassis is translated in one verse somewhere.

I became a believer in UR before I did the studies in language and translation because my faith in the overall contextual integrity of the scriptures convinced me of its truth. It was only then, as I started researching the reasons for the seeming contradictions that I was led on the trail through the translations, which(not without acknowledging the help of some other writers- mainly Andrew Jukes) the Holy Spirit led me to do in HEBREW through Lexicons and dictionaries that took the words back to the Hebrew roots.

"solo scriptura" is meaningless to me, because so many deceived people trumpet it like a mantra of self justification for their shallow understandings, lazy scholarship and spiritual indifference- based in presumptions they received from their mentors who were also shouting out "SOLA SCRIPTURA" as they paraded their errors and traditions about as if they were the very "sword of the spirit".

[Tom]

I agree that the Greek translations are superior in many ways to the Latin translations, but for me the measuring standard is how true they are to Hebrew thought and expression, rather than on the basis of word for word rendering, because the Greeks transliterated many of their own concepts and ideas and mythology into the word-as did the Romans and then later the English and the Germans.

IMO the only way to break through the veil of mistranslation is to go through both the Greek and the Latin into the Hebrew and Aramaic. Studying the writings of Moses, David and the prophets are the surest contextual background against which to compare, as Paul put it, "spiritual words with spiritual realities".

If our spiritual terms do not compare with spiritual realities........

such as Sheol vs Hades vs Hell(neither Hades or Hell compares with the spiritual reality of Sheol), or such as olam vs forever, eternal, everlasting......

we dont know what we are reading and speaking(altho we may be certain we do understand)

I think this language barrier is over estimated- I think the real barrier is in the ideological, philosophical and spiritual perspective changes when we read the scriptures from a Greco/Roman influenced English/European mind-set.

That is why the surest way to UNDERSTAND the scriptures what the MIND OF GOD is when He speaks a word(LOGOS-EXPRESSED THOUGHT) is to study them as a contextually integrated, unique expression of God's perspective on what is real.

I personally think it is this over-emphasis on individual words against a failure to grasp the scriptures in their topical contexts and historical contexts that is the reason for why people can miss the ABOUNDING EVIDENCE for the restoration of all things- because of how one word, such as olam or aion or kolassis is translated in one verse somewhere.

I became a believer in UR before I did the studies in language and translation because my faith in the overall contextual integrity of the scriptures convinced me of its truth. It was only then, as I started researching the reasons for the seeming contradictions that I was led on the trail through the translations, which(not without acknowledging the help of some other writers- mainly Andrew Jukes) the Holy Spirit led me to do in HEBREW through Lexicons and dictionaries that took the words back to the Hebrew roots.

"solo scriptura" is meaningless to me, because so many deceived people trumpet it like a mantra of self justification for their shallow understandings, lazy scholarship and spiritual indifference- based in presumptions they received from their mentors who were also shouting out "SOLA SCRIPTURA" as they paraded their errors and traditions about as if they were the very "sword of the spirit".

From what I've read the Latin corrupted the Greek through church doctrine. I don't read either. I just try to find the true meaning as you say contextually from what I think is the best translation. I know "sola scriptura" is the motto of Protestantism. I'm an ex-Catholic, ex-Protestant, ex-church member who studies scripture because I believe it is the inspired written word of God that is the source of truth. Since I'm an ex-church member, I no longer care about the creeds of the church or its rituals. I realize something is always lost in translation, but I think it's important to try to find the most accurate translation to know the truth. We can see what just changing a few words does to perpetrate the doctrine of torture forever in fire, and I think we have the Latin to thank for that. I don't idolize scripture, but I think it is a more reliable source of truth than church doctrine. So I agree with the Protestant idea that scripture is sufficient, but I disagree with the doctrine of Rome that the Reformation neglected to purge. That's why I'm an ex-church member and a member of no religious organization, but I am a member of the body of Christ who seeks the truth in scripture. As I've said a few times before, I don't think somebody even needs to fully understand the evangel to be a believer, but I study the written word of God because it inspires me like no church tradition does. I don't claim to be an authority. I'm just a fellow student like the rest of you. I've read the church history of persecution of believers simply for reading scripture. They were killed with fire. I've also read how the church distorted scripture to perpetuate its agenda of controlling its followers through fear of being tortured in fire forever. That's why I don't want to have anything to do with church doctrine or its distorted version of scripture. When I say church, I'm usually referring to both Catholic and Protestant because they are both guilty of atrocities and distorting the evangel. We are just supposed to forget about the past and think the church is doing good now, but I don't. I have received as much persecution online from church folks as I have from atheists. I feel sorry for all of them because I know it isn't their fault that they haven't been given the truth. That's why we need to study the truth from a reliable source and share it. Someone out there will have their eyes opened. We may never know about it, but we just need to plant the seed and let God make it grow. If we shine the light of truth that is the love of God into the darkness, folks will be drawn to it, but I think we need to consult a reliable source to fully understand what truth is. I can fellowship with folks of different opinions about different things, but I have to speak the truth as I understand it from scripture. If you want to talk about church doctrine, I'll pass because I'm not interested. I think we all have different perspectives, but it is interesting to share them with each other as long as we do it in love. That's what's happening here for the most part from what I've seen, and I'm grateful for all my brothers and sisters here. We don't all agree on everything, but what group of people do? God bless you all.

[eaglesway]

" As I've said a few times before, I don't think somebody even needs to fully understand the evangel to be a believer, but I study the written word of God because it inspires me like no church tradition does. "

Beautiful, and I agree  :thumbsup:

[Eduard]

I go by sola scriptura although in my country we are mainly Orthodox. They place tradition on equal terms with the Scripture, a bad mistake in my eyes.

[Tom]

I go by sola scriptura although in my country we are mainly Orthodox. They place tradition on equal terms with the Scripture, a bad mistake in my eyes.

I agree, brother. I was raised Roman Catholic. So I didn't get familiar with scripture until after I left the church because it's all about tradition.

[ded2daworld]

Does it even matter anymore? Even to say we belive sola scriptura it doesn't mean that to most.ET is a perfect example. Sola scriptura plainly says that ALL will be saved and ET says no only some.
Sola scriptura says 6 literal days about 6,000 years ago and many good christian believers that say sola scriptura say no, God meant something different than what it says.
Since it's all interpretation and we all enter into our interpretation with our preconceived world view and bias, Does sola scriptura matter anymore?
We all know people that can take almost anytthing the bible says and "make it fit" to what we want or what someone has convinced us is true. Are we taking their word over Gods'? They don't deny it directly but simply say it means what they want it to say. God help us all.
When we stand before God (and then fall at his feet in worship) I don't want to be one of the people that has to answer Jesus when he says, "Why didn't you believe me? I gave you over 30 different translations that all said essentially the same thing. You strained at the gnat and missed the camel. You didn't trust me to make sure my message was recorded accurately. :dontknow:

[Tom]

Does it even matter anymore? Even to say we belive sola scriptura it doesn't mean that to most.ET is a perfect example. Sola scriptura plainly says that ALL will be saved and ET says no only some.
Sola scriptura says 6 literal days about 6,000 years ago and many good christian believers that say sola scriptura say no, God meant something different than what it says.
Since it's all interpretation and we all enter into our interpretation with our preconceived world view and bias, Does sola scriptura matter anymore?
We all know people that can take almost anytthing the bible says and "make it fit" to what we want or what someone has convinced us is true. Are we taking their word over Gods'? They don't deny it directly but simply say it means what they want it to say. God help us all.
When we stand before God (and then fall at his feet in worship) I don't want to be one of the people that has to answer Jesus when he says, "Why didn't you believe me? I gave you over 30 different translations that all said essentially the same thing. You strained at the gnat and missed the camel. You didn't trust me to make sure my message was recorded accurately. :dontknow:

I hear what you're saying, brother, and I say "monon graphe" only matters if you realize it means to reject the false tradition of the church and seek the truth in the word of God. I think that's what Christ was telling folks about the Pharisees. I think the church is the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees. 

"you invalidate the word of God because of your tradition" (Matthew 15:6)

The problem seems to be that Protestant church folks think they're relying only on scripture, but they're blinded by church tradition. We're born into it church tradition and raised to believe it is the truth. Some folks never seem to come to the realization that it is a distortion of the evangel. I was born into the Roman Catholic Church. So I had no idea what it meant to believe "only scripture." I left it when I was a very young man, and I tried the Protestant Church for awhile years later. Eventually I came to realize that the Catholics and Protestants share the same basic doctrine. Then I decided to get out of the church and just get into the word of God. I thank God that I'm free from the bondage of the church, and I have the word of God to know the truth.

[Tom]

See the attached file for "The Gospels Differentiated" URV20P1 pages 69-86

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/CorrectlyCutting.html

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

See the attached file for "Eternal Torment Or Universal Reconciliation URV24P1 pages 77-123."

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[attachment deleted by admin]

[VineBranch]

Does it even matter anymore? Even to say we belive sola scriptura it doesn't mean that to most.ET is a perfect example. Sola scriptura plainly says that ALL will be saved and ET says no only some.
Sola scriptura says 6 literal days about 6,000 years ago and many good christian believers that say sola scriptura say no, God meant something different than what it says.
Since it's all interpretation and we all enter into our interpretation with our preconceived world view and bias, Does sola scriptura matter anymore?
We all know people that can take almost anytthing the bible says and "make it fit" to what we want or what someone has convinced us is true. Are we taking their word over Gods'? They don't deny it directly but simply say it means what they want it to say. God help us all.
When we stand before God (and then fall at his feet in worship) I don't want to be one of the people that has to answer Jesus when he says, "Why didn't you believe me? I gave you over 30 different translations that all said essentially the same thing. You strained at the gnat and missed the camel. You didn't trust me to make sure my message was recorded accurately. :dontknow:

Leave it to you to clear everything up and take all the fun out of playing around in the mess:  sheesh.   :laugh:  Thanks Bro. :thumbsup: