If Satan was REALLY Gods nemesis.....

[JulieTang84]

This is so logical even a child has no trouble understanding the concept.

Much has been written about Satan and all that he will do at the end of this age. People have lived in fear and dread because of these writings........

The simple fact is if Satan wanted to checkmate God and make God's plan (according to the anti-Uni's) fall to pieces, all he has to do is say: "No, I'm not doing it!" and sit back and watch the fun as God tries to make other plans. So much for knowing the beginning from the end.

But God does know the beginning from the end and there is just one logical conclusion and that God knows Satan is NOT going to refuse. Well of course this changes everything. Satan is NOT God's arch enemy, out to thwart God's every move. God is in control and Satan will not break free of God's plan just as Jesus did not.

Perhaps Satan is nothing more than a scapegoat for our imperfections.

Just my thoughts,
Julie

[micah7:9]

That works. :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Of course there is one thing, which is, Jesus never wanted to break free of God's plan. God has no "arch enemy", but the scriptures use the word "adversary for a reason. But yes of course God is and always has been in control and a gillion moves ahead.

It is like some folks who believe God gasped when Adam and Eve disobeyed and then formulated a plan, "Oh My, they have fallen, I never expected that, What shall I do? I know, I will have a son and sacrifice Him to win them back to me!"

In the long view, we know who made the plan and who causes "all things to work in accordance with His will".

In the short term, "Be sober and on the alert, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8

God may hav set him on the prowl- to keep us sharp.....or to provide a foil so we don't just lay around eating grapes in the promised land- but  whatever the reason He has done so..... only a fool would ignore Peter's warnng, or consider the devourer an unworthy foe.

[JulieTang84]

Thanks Eaglesway for your thoughtful response.

Unworthy or uneccessary? Of course I do not want to be confrontational but David said it nicely in Psalm 23. I have learned that my life is a product of my choices. I can live in fear, anger or sorrow or I can live in love, peace and light.

Should I fear evil, or trust God implicitly?

Psa 23:1   A psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

Psa 23:2   He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,

Psa 23:3   he refreshes my soul. He guides me along the right paths for his name's sake.

Psa 23:4   Even though I walk through the darkest valley, [fn] I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.....

But to your point. James speaks of the dire consequences for drawing away from God.

Jam 4:1   What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?

Jam 4:2   You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God.

Jam 4:3   When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

Jam 4:4   You adulterous people, [fn] don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Jam 4:5   Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us [fn]?

Jam 4:6   But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." [fn]

Jam 4:7   Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:8   Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

I am not saying Satan is not an unworthy opponent, but he feeds off of fear, anger, frustration etc.

This might cause a little contention, but I feel a better word for "resist" in vs7 is "dismiss." It seems to me whilst ever I am focusing more on resisting something, that something has my attention. More likely than not I would walk through the valley of the shadow of death (life) in fear because the adversary is always lurking.

Though, by dismissing something I can truly let is go. I have learned that I cannot draw close to God living in fear. By removing the blinders of fear, I can feel the love, the light and the peace and it is life changing.

I hope this makes sense.

Love Julie

[sheila]

well,I see both your points.  Fear can paralyze..this is true...but Love and TRUST go hand in hand..and to walk

with Him..it requires both. He has spoken to you about the adversary..and given counsel in regard to it.

  He has also said 'Fear not! fOR i HAVE OVERCOME .

    wE CAN NOT NEGATE  HIS 'WORD" IN REGARD TO THE ADVERSARY..OR THE COUNSEL HE GIVES

  ON THE NATURE OF IT[DOUBT HIS WORD] FOR THAT IMPLIES A LACK OF TRUST IN HIM,DUE TO FEAR

PARALYZING US AND OUR LOVE.

   WHY NOT LOVE AND TRUST HIM..THAT WHAT HE HAS SPOKEN OF THE ADVERSARY IS TRUE..AND ALSO

HEED HIS COUNSEL AS TRUE[BELEIVE HIM] AND TRUST HIM THAT HIS WORD 'FEAR NOT' AS HE LEADS

AND PROTECTS YOU..THROUGH YOUR WALK.

  DENYING TRUTH IS NOT THE WAAY  WE OVERCOME.  BUT ACCEPTING WHAT HE TELLS US[TRUTH]

AND FEAR NOT..AND TRUST IN HIM

   SATAN IS THE 'SCAPEGOAT'  TWO GOATS CHOEN BY LOTS..ONE THE LORD'S OFFERED UP TO HIM...

  THE OTHER FOR 'AZAZAEL'..WITH SIN PLACED ON IT..TO BE SENT OFF TO PERISH IN THE WILDERNESS

AND NEVER ENTER THE HOLY CITY AGAIN[PICTURING WICKED 'GENERTION' SEED THAT DID NOT

ENTER THE PROMISED LAND BUT PERISHED]....

   TWO GOATS WORK THE PEOPLES DELIVERANCE FROM SIN...THE LORD'S AND AZAZEL'S........

   ONE ASCENDS ON THE ALTAR TO GOD..THE OTHER PERISHES.  THE HIGH PREIST CONFESSES

ALL THE PEOPLE'S SINS UPON IT[AZAZAEL...A STRONG MAN LEAD'S IT TO PERISH. THE GOAT THAT RISES

FROM THE ALTAR

TO GOD HAS NOT SIN ON IT.....FOR THE SIN IS PLACED ON AZZAEL'S GOAT

   BY THESE TWO GOATS...THE PEOPLE'S SINS ARE REMOVED..ONE REPRESENTS SINLESS FLESH..THE OTHER

  SIN IN FLESH.   THAT'S HOW I SEE IT,ANYWAY.

   

   



   OTHER SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF GOAT-SHPED DEMONS IN THE WILDERNESS

[eaglesway]

A Christian has no reason to fear the adversary. Only thing to fear is our own ignorance of his wiles. If God warns us to be aware and wary, then it is foolishness to be ignorant and asleep concerning spiritual darkness and spiritual warfare. In all this we rejoice because we know that our God is our defense. Yet, He warns, "Put on the full armor of God" and tells us, "Our weapons are not natural(intellectual/emotional/physical), but mighty through God for the pulling down of every stronghold and tower that exalts itself against the true knowledge of God".

So we do as we are encouraged in the Holy Spirit to do so we can be effective ministers of reconciliation, deliverance and healing.

[sheila]

PS  TO ME...ONE GOAT REPRESENTS SINLESS FLESH[LORD'S] WITH THE LORD'S SPIRIT LEADING

  THE OTHER REPRESENT'S SINFUL FLESH OR MAN OF SIN/SON OF PERDITION THAT GOES INTO

EVERLASTING CUTTING OFF..WITH THE ADVERSARY'S SPIRIT ACTIVE IN IT[WAGES/DEATH]

     

[sheila]

PS...I AM NOT FAULTING ANY LITTLE ONES...WHO BEING PARLYZED BY FEAR HAVE THEIR LITTLE FACES

BURIED UNDER HIS CLOAK..KNOWING HIM...HE WILL HOLD THEM..AND SPEAKING TO THEM AS THEY WALK

  THIS WAY..AND ARE 'KEPT' OF HIM..IN TIME...THEIR TRUST IN HIM GROWS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY

  'TAKE COURAGE' AND ARE ABLE TO TKE THEIR FACE FROM THIS POSITIN..AND LOOK ON THE THINGS THAT

   HE SPEAKS OF,WITHOUT FEAR.

   AS THEY GROW IN CONFIDENCE,IN HIM, THEY SHALL BE ABLE TO 'HANDLE' SERPENTS

[rosered]

 

  Hi Guys ,   
I remember being taught to fear satan in church as a little child  and not God who was a loving  God 
but   we are to fear God and not satan ,  that was giving satan some kind of power over you , to me 
fearing the Lord  is not a bad thing at all , it soon turns to reverance   for Him when you develope a persoanl relationship with Him and He becomes close and near , not some God  so far away   and not obtainable  to  reach     
we have lots to learn and still learning   to this day  , its an education , I would NOT trade for the world 
because when we had the world  it was found  void  and empty  , pointness 
  with God our new lives are full   and promising     , we never know love till we know God   , who is love   , becoming a parent  helped   me the most in all honesty      ,  we are dissapointed with  our childrens choices  but never stop loving them    , and you are there  for them , no matter what happens    and  interceed with     help only a parent understands     , with God though Christ its even more so to me  .     everyones experiences are different    , making it impossible to judge    anything before its time   to  be revealed        to me
   just some thoughts on the difference between     than and now   and how easy it is to forget where we come from and out of    .    :dsunny:

[JulieTang84]

I have been given to believe that any thought, word or deed that is not a blessing to our Heavenly Father is a backward step. I know that I will stumble still, even though I have stumbled so many times in the past.

Is it because of Satan or my weak will? Does the cause truly matter? I think not.

If I beat myself stupid for my ignorance I am denying the very Grace of God. If I stand defiant and say "God, you made me this way! Deal with it!" am I not mocking the Grace of God?

As a child, I never wanted to displease my folks, though looking back, I failed more times than I care to remember. Did they Love me any less? No, on the contrary, my folks rejoiced in my exploring my world and if I pushed boundries and was hurt or over stepped the mark, it was with a contrite heart that took whatever came my way. Disappointing my folks hurt me more than it hurt them, but I was learning and growing and soon boundries and expectations grew naturally, ignorance and to some degree, stupidity gave way to wisdom.

Is this not the same as our growing with our Heavenly Father? I am sure he does not want any of us to sit in a hole being to afraid to move for fear of doing something wrong. I think of the servant who buried his single piece of silver out of fear. What would have happened to the guy who was given 5 peices of silver and his investments had not came through? Very little, though I am only guessing, I feel that his Master would have congradulated him for getting out and trying. He may not have recived the silver of the others though.

But is this not what our Father wants from us? To get out and explore, to live and push a few boundries not out of fear but for the joy of learning and discovery. Sure we will fall, but God will be there to pick us up if we have a contrite / humble heart. What parent doesnt welcome the chance to be there for a child? God is not less loving and forgiving. He does not want us walking around in fear and in darkness. He does not want us to hold anything back but to live in love and light. To find joy in his Creation and to love everyone and everything.

This all might sound a little airy fairy, but should it?

Jhn 12:46    I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Love Julie

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob:   Well said Julie !!     love  to you as well

[sheila]

  DOESN'T SOUND 'AIRY/FAIRY' AT ALL!!!

        i LIKE TO DRAW AND PAINT AND WRITE...CREATIVE FREEDOM ALLOWS ME TO EXPRESS

  MYSELF BETTER..WHAT IS INSIDE FLOWS MORE SMOOTHLY...

   I TOOK A FEW CLASSES IN WRITING AND PAINTING..AND REALIZED THAT IF A TEACHER GAVE

ME A SPECIFIC CRITERIA OF DO'S AND DO'S AND DON'TS...i COULDN'T HARDLY MAKE A MOVE!

FOR FEAR THAT IT WAS WRONG! THE FEWER 'LAWS/REQUIREMENTS' THE BETTER I DID!


   FOR THIS REASON THE HOLY SPIRIT REQUIRED ONLY A FEW NECESSARY THINGS..IN ADDITION

TO JESUS COMMAND TO LOVE GOD AND YOUR BROTHER AS YOURSELF....IF YOU DO THESE THINGS

YOU WILL PROSPER[SPIRITUALLY]  GROW IN  HEALTHY SPIRITUAL WAY, REMAIN INNOCENT/HEALTHY


   BUT IT IS ALSO WRITTEN,MY PEOPLE PERISH THROUGH LAACK OF KNOWLEDGE...AND SO...

LEARNING THROUGH OUR MISTAKES AND THE MISTAKES OF OTHER'S IS PART OF OUR MATURATION.

  WE CAN BE INNOCENT AND A VICTIM AND SLAUGHTERED..AND WE CAN ALSO BE INNOCENT AND

DISCERNING AND LIVE.


   A LONG TIME AGO..FATHER TOLD ME..YOU CAN LISTEN TO ME AND HEED WHAT I SAY...AND LEARN

THE EASIER WAY..OR LEARN THE HARD WAY...BUT LEARN YOU WILL!


  WELL..MANY YEARS HAAVE PASSED..AND I DID INDEED HAAVE TO LEARN SOME THINGS THE HARD

WAY!  MORE THEN I CARE TO REMEMBER...BUT GRADUALY I LEARNED IT WAS 'IN MY BEST INTEREST'

TO LISTEN AND HEED HIS COUNSEL.


   HE NEVER FORSOOK ME..IN SOME OF THE MESSES I GOT INTO[GOT INTO PLENTY] BUT HE LET ME

  FEEL FULLY THE EFFECTS OF SOME OF MY FOLLY..AND IT WAS 'HARD' CIRCUMSTANCES..AND

HARD LESSONS. ONCE I GOT THE 'GIST' OF THE LESSON..HE SHOWED ME THE WAY OUT OF IT.


     WHAT I HEAR IN THE COUNSEL OF GOD IN THE MATTER OF THE ADVERSARY..IS LOVING COUNSEL

  AND WARNINGS TO HELP US AVOID SOME 'HARD' THINGS..AND NOT HAVE TO SUFFER THEM......

  HE GIVES US HIS DISCERNMENT TO HELP US...AS WE DEVELOPE AND LEARN[DISCERNMENT] AND GROW


   I FIND..THAT HE DOES NOT TELL US THESE THINGS..WITH THE OBJECT OF CONDEMNING US FOR

THEM IF WE DO PERHAPS FAIL TO HEED THEM...BUT AS A LITTLE 'HELP' ALONG THE WAY TO MAKE

IT EASIER FOR US.


   REGARDLESS,  WE ALL ARE GOING TO LEARN SOME THINGS THE HARD WAY..AND SOME EASIER


   GOD HIMSELF WILL FINISH OUR TRAINING..AND ALL THE CHILDREN WILL BE TAAUGHT OF GOD.

[sheila]

PS   I just realized this was ll in caps!  didn't mean it as a yell......please know this  :HeartThrob:

   my vision isn't real good,nor my typing..........I apligize if anyone for even a minute..thought that

  i would 'yell' at them

[JulieTang84]

 :HeartThrob:   DEAR SHEILA YOU NEED NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR OFFENDING ME :)

I WRITE THIS IN UPPERCASE OUT OF RESPECT FOR YOUR EYE SIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND WORDS

[JulieTang84]

Thank you rosered.

Your post said it all. I am so amazed at the number of Christians that call God their Father, and then attribute things to him that my Father would/could never do.

What part of Perfect do they not get. If we as mere humans know how to nurture and protect our children; how much more so must our Loving Father.

He must be like the father of the Prodigal son, who came out running when his wayward son returned. He did not sit in his parlor fuming that his son never wrote or anything like that. I would say all was forgiven, but I really don't think that there was anything to forgive.

God is Love.

Love  :HeartThrob: Julie

[dajomaco]

Just my thoughts

The battle is for my mind .
There is only one place, my flesh, my spirit, the Holy Spirit and the adversary meet, and that is in my mind.

My concept of  time is that no one, absolutely  no created being has the power to control time. We have no explanation for the absence of time.

I could not walk talk or breathe without remembering the past
and making calculation on how to proceed in the future.
These cognitive skills are innate in every flesh being.
The flesh is dead as soon as I am not able to recall the past.
I would not know how to walk let alone ride a bicycle. 

There is one place, that my mind, my spirit, and the Holy Spirit can be,
and that is in the NOW .
It is impossible for the adversary to be in the Now.
He accuses us of the past .
An accusation would have no merit unless the offending act 
had already occurred .
The purpose of an accusation is to extract a judgment and punishment for the future.

The enemy is disarmed because the Spirit is Now.
The past is already dead before it started.

The Spirit can comfort us and bring peace in the middle the storm.
The storm front is where the flesh with all it's truths meets the Spirit which is truth.
In our minds.   

[lomarah]

Wow awesome stuff here all!!

Welcome Julie, I love your posts already sis! :)

Amen Rose, awesome post!

Sheila I personally love it when you yell at us. Makes me all excitable like, YES AMEN GIRL, PREACH IT SISTA!!! 

Daj ya blew me away there...  :thumbsup:

[JulieTang84]

Thanks everyone for making me feel so welcome. I appreciate you all and just love where this thread is headed. Christ told us to become as little children, not in the sense as acting like a child, but realizing when it comes to Spiritual matters, we have so much to learn. Jesus just wants us to realize it. Only then can we step off of our self proclaimed pedastools of self importance and begin to see things they really are.

Some will ask: and just "how" are they? Well any how I want them to be. Isn't this typical child behaviour, very short memories when it comes to hurt feelings and disappointments. There is too much else going on to dwell on the bad.

But there is more to becoming as a child, but certainly no less important. I was lucky, because I could trust my folks totally. Oh, I might not always get what I wanted, but I never had to worry about my next meal or where I would sleep. I always had clothes and shoes and looking back I can see how hard it was for my parents during tough times, but I never had to worry about. It was not my job.

Yet, things change. Sometimes to the point that those carefree days are just a forgotten memory. Now everyone is seemingly on our backs, nothing is certain anymore. We fight so hard for stability, security only to see it crumble before our very eyes. Never nice but the first glimmer of hope is smile, when we look objectably over the mess we've made.

This was a valable life lesson for me and like the prodigal son, I didn't need my Heavenly Father for help. It was a test. If just tried a little harder, worked a little longer even prayed a little more fervently, I would come through. I just forgot my limitations. I forgot that I live and breathe by the Grace of God. I forgot that all I had to do was hold out my hand and He would take it. What I forgot was "TRUST"

This is what I believe Jesus meant first and foremost. Trust in the one that has control and leave the hard stuff for him.

So sorry for rambling.

:HeartThrob: Julie

[micah7:9]

Of course there is one thing, which is, Jesus never wanted to break free of God's plan. God has no "arch enemy", but the scriptures use the word "adversary for a reason. But yes of course God is and always has been in control and a gillion moves ahead.

It is like some folks who believe God gasped when Adam and Eve disobeyed and then formulated a plan, "Oh My, they have fallen, I never expected that, What shall I do? I know, I will have a son and sacrifice Him to win them back to me!"

In the long view, we know who made the plan and who causes "all things to work in accordance with His will".

In the short term, "Be sober and on the alert, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8

God may hav set him on the prowl- to keep us sharp.....or to provide a foil so we don't just lay around eating grapes in the promised land- but  whatever the reason He has done so..... only a fool would ignore Peter's warnng, or consider the devourer an unworthy foe.

"...but the scriptures use the word "adversary ..." What happened to that illusive word "satan"? that is bantered about so much. I only bring it up cause I ain't never seen that type of wording, you know not using the word satan. Please excuse my interference. :HeartThrob:

And "Just my thoughts. The battle is for my mind ." (dajomaco) well said. :dsunny:

[marie glen]

hi, JulieTang84! :hiya:
And welcome to Tentmaker forums! I get some very strange reactions when I come out with the statement 'everything is perfect!" People think I'm crazy! They say look at the wars! Look at the crime! Genocides! Drought. Starvation. Pestilence (both virile and chemical). How can you possibly say life as we presently know it is perfect!?

I truly believe it is because God (Yahweh) is in complete control! Does he have an arch enemy (more than the rebel in all of us?) Imo, yes, but ONLY because God willingly and with full conscious intent, chose to endow thinking ability (to angel and man, which the scripture, imo, supports). And this of course would be one reason He built in the rescue/reconciliation/atonement from the very foundation of all creation. Because it's easy to see that thinking ability, includes (though limited) the ability to make choices.

But since Yahweh is Life itself (who/what else could be?) and He's also, of course Perfection, then to wander from God and become imperfect (by any teeny tiny choice other than God makes or would make) is to become imPerfect, the opposite of Life. Hence of course the need to be reconciled back to Life/God/Perfection, the perfection of course coming to believers at the (1st) resurrection.

I mean seriously, why? would God wait so long and only create the universe & man an woman not only after the 1st bound-to-occur rebel thought occurred but had matured into outright subterfuge and sedition? didn't He know what would happen?! :laughing7: Of course He did! I believe so we would all take this unavoidable journey/lesson all together.. angel and man kind.. Unavoidable, that is, if there's to be thinking ability/rational creatures. Therefor, life even as we presently know it, is utterly perfect because we are learning an inescapable foundation truth, mainly, that one cannot wander away from Life and live.

Perfect.. all is utterly PERFECT. (please excuse my zealous rambling) :smile:

[marie glen]

 P.S. -- Because God endowed thinking ability, thus eventually the ability to choose, death (opposite of God/Life/Perfection) came about, and now all suffer.. some even horribly!! But! God (Yahweh) being Life itself, the life force, experiences, suffers and lives through aLL sufferings which ever occur!! wHy would He put Himself through all that?? I find myself thinking because He's not creating an ant farm or robots but His very own family, one of many beautiful branches.. and an un-breakable paradise. Un-breakable for aLL will fully know and understand good from evil which is also life from death and true from untrue.

Peace and blessings.. :smile:

...and it's a shame ppl are afraid of things coming upon the earth (in its fallen state) for the signs given are very big and obvious, too bad more are not aware of them and could pass them on.. I believe there shall be "ten days" 'tribulation.. or should I say late days tribulation.. 45 days (dan12:11,12) cannot buy or sell w/ the last "ten days" escalating into the critical days many make so much of.. (THe "seven years/week has to do with a treaty/covenant/league" of "peace, peace")

[eaglesway]

Of course there is one thing, which is, Jesus never wanted to break free of God's plan. God has no "arch enemy", but the scriptures use the word "adversary for a reason. But yes of course God is and always has been in control and a gillion moves ahead.

It is like some folks who believe God gasped when Adam and Eve disobeyed and then formulated a plan, "Oh My, they have fallen, I never expected that, What shall I do? I know, I will have a son and sacrifice Him to win them back to me!"

In the long view, we know who made the plan and who causes "all things to work in accordance with His will".

In the short term, "Be sober and on the alert, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8

God may hav set him on the prowl- to keep us sharp.....or to provide a foil so we don't just lay around eating grapes in the promised land- but  whatever the reason He has done so..... only a fool would ignore Peter's warnng, or consider the devourer an unworthy foe.

"...but the scriptures use the word "adversary ..." What happened to that illusive word "satan"? that is bantered about so much. I only bring it up cause I ain't never seen that type of wording, you know not using the word satan. Please excuse my interference. :HeartThrob:

And "Just my thoughts. The battle is for my mind ." (dajomaco) well said. :dsunny:

Ever since Saturday Night Live I hav difficulty saying Satan (probably just what Satan wanted) haha.

No really, I just try to speak in words that mean what I think, Satan is, whether creatd so or having become so by choice- the adversary.

Th-Th-Th Thats all folks

[JulieTang84]

Marie Glen thanks so much for your welcome and thought provoking post. There is so much to consider. What about where Paul says of God having the right to harden the hearts of some to their destruction?

Sounds tough, but then Paul says that to those that have been given little than little shall be expected and the punishment light. However, to whom much has been given, much is expected.

It is late, but I truly believe that this has more to do with becoming as little children than trying to second Guess God.

:HeartThrob: Julie