Trinity Discussion, split from "Something I Just Read"

[Molly]

3 But Jesus deserves far more glory than Moses, just as a person who builds a house deserves more praise than the house itself. 4 For every house has a builder, but the one who built everything is God.

5 Moses was certainly faithful in God's house as a servant. His work was an illustration of the truths God would reveal later. 6 But Christ, as the Son, is in charge of God's entire house. And we are God's house, if we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ.

7 That is why the Holy Spirit says,

"Today when you hear his voice,
8     don't harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled,
    when they tested me in the wilderness.
9 There your ancestors tested and tried my patience,
    even though they saw my miracles for forty years.
10 So I was angry with them, and I said,
'Their hearts always turn away from me.
    They refuse to do what I tell them.'
11 So in my anger I took an oath:
    'They will never enter my place of rest.'"

--Heb 3

[Molly]

The Holy Spirit is quoting himself in that passage:



10 So I was angry with them, and I said,

'Their hearts always turn away from me.
    They refuse to do what I tell them.'

11 So in my anger I took an oath:

    'They will never enter my place of rest.'"


--Heb 3

[micah7:9]

 :doh:

[Molly]

Sometimes the atheists are easier to put up with because at least, with them, what you see is what you get.

But the Lord makes this strange statement before the flood:


3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

--Gen 6


On the face of it, that sounds like he will only allow flesh man to live 120 year lifespan.   But, we know those before the flood were living almost 1000 years.  Weren't they flesh?  And, after the flood, various ages, today being about average 70+ years.


So what did he mean by that?   What if he meant 120 jubilee years?   In that case, 120 x 50 is 6000 years!


Will the Holy Spirit only contend with flesh man for 6000 years?  And, after that, the manifestation of the sons of God,--the Holy Spirit will only deal with spirit filled immortal beings?


"(14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. (15) But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."  [Rev 22]

[Molly]

Thanks, Speaktruth,

That looks really interesting.  I'll take a look at it.

[dajomaco]

The Holy Spirit is quoting himself in that passage:



10 So I was angry with them, and I said,

'Their hearts always turn away from me.
    They refuse to do what I tell them.'

11 So in my anger I took an oath:

    'They will never enter my place of rest.'"


--Heb 3

This does not fly.IMO

[Molly]

Isn't that the way it is written, daj?


I said,

quote...........................unquote

I swore an oath,

quote............................unquote

[speaktruth]

I usually do not involve myself in long discussions; but I just read a few more of the replies to this thread and learned that my reply is #654!!!   As long as I have become involved, I'll add just one more reply regarding why I have rejected the Trinity=Three persons in one God belief...

man was created a PHYSICAL person in the image and likeness of God SPIRIT Person- I do not consider man's spirit, soul, body as three separate persons.

This may be overly simplified, but it works for me. 

[Molly]

It's true, they are not three separate persons [spirit, soul, and body].  They are three in one [within ourselves].

But, don't they act like separate persons sometimes?

And, aren't the three parts of ourselves being saved separately, one after the other, with the redemption of the body last?



14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

--Rom 7

[speaktruth]

It's true, they are not three separate persons [spirit, soul, and body].  They are three in one [within ourselves].

But, don't they act like separate persons sometimes?

And, aren't the three parts of ourselves being saved separately, one after the other, with the redemption of the body last?



14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

--Rom 7

Molly, I really hesitated before hitting the post button as I do not like involving myself in long discussions; but now I'm happy I did as your reply has given me a whole new way of looking at the "three in one"... not so much as three "persons" in one because nothing you stated would have me--at least at this point--reconsider Trinity=Three PERSONS in one God.  For me, the word "person" needs much more Biblical support as per Three Persons in One God...   I will read more of this thread as time allows.

[Molly]

Thanks for your consideration, speaktruth.

I am just myself also beginning to truly appreciate the majesty and the might of the Holy Spirit, even though I've known Him all my life.

[jabcat]

That was an interesting post Molly.   :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Trinity speak....body-soul- and spirit.....man has a body and a spirit which according the Bible Gen.2:7 makes a soul. :dsunny:

[dajomaco]

Trinity speak....body-soul- and spirit.....man has a body and a spirit which according the Bible Gen.2:7 makes a soul. :dsunny:

Would I not be schizophrenic if I had to decide,
who replied to your post.

Me myself or I

[Molly]

The Temple has three parts--the outer court, the inner court, and the Holy of Holies.

[Molly]

Outer court--Jesus, Savior of all men--redemption of the soul.

Inner court--the Holy Spirit--redemption of the spirit.

Holy of Holies--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--redemption of the body.

[micah7:9]

Trinity speak....body-soul- and spirit.....man has a body and a spirit which according the Bible Gen.2:7 makes a soul. :dsunny:

Would I not be schizophrenic if I had to decide,
who replied to your post.

Me myself or I

Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

With out a body or a spirit...there can be no breathing creature. The human being IS a soul he was not given a soul, nor does he have soul.
Perhaps, schizophrenic may fit.

[micah7:9]

Outer court--Jesus, Savior of all men--redemption of the soul.

Inner court--the Holy Spirit--redemption of the spirit.

Holy of Holies--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--redemption of the body.

In the words of Ronald Reagan...."There you go again."

[speaktruth]

Molly.. thanks for the Temple three in one ...  I guess I am involved and very interested...  do you have scriptures that refer to the Temple and its three parts (I'm not questioning three in one... just would like some Scriptures and I could look for them, but no doubt you already have some.)

Micah... I think I understand your interpretation of Gen 2:7... but what do you do with 1 Thess 5:23?   which in the Greek states ....whole spirit AND soul AND body...    it seems that Paul understands man= spirit AND soul AND body    ????


AND I just read three new replies that were made as I was typing this.  However, my questions remain...  Molly, I need Scriptures for Temple and three parts AND Micah, what do you with 1 Thess 5:23.

[Molly]

Outer court--Jesus, Savior of all men--redemption of the soul.



29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!  [Jn 1]


Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered outside the gate. [Heb 13:12]


For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that believe. [1 Tim 4:10]




Inner court--the Holy Spirit--redemption of the spirit.




There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

--John 3



Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine,

you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

--Exodus 19:5,6


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

--Heb 10



1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.  Rom 8




Holy of Holies--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--redemption of the body



36And he spoke also a parable to them; No man puts a piece of a new garment on an old; if otherwise, then both the new makes a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agrees not with the old. 37And no man puts new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. 38But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.




21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.  [Rom 8]


:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Molly]

We, the especially people, born from above, can enter the Holy of Holies now, even though we do not yet have our glorified bodies, through the body and blood of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.



19Having therefore, brothers, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God;


22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

--Heb 10

[micah7:9]

Molly.. thanks for the Temple three in one ...  I guess I am involved and very interested...  do you have scriptures that refer to the Temple and its three parts (I'm not questioning three in one... just would like some Scriptures and I could look for them, but no doubt you already have some.)

Micah... I think I understand your interpretation of Gen 2:7... but what do you do with 1 Thess 5:23?   which in the Greek states ....whole spirit AND soul AND body...    it seems that Paul understands man= spirit AND soul AND body    ????


AND I just read three new replies that were made as I was typing this.  However, my questions remain...  Molly, I need Scriptures for Temple and three parts AND Micah, what do you with 1 Thess 5:23.

My friend, I believe you just better stay under the tutoring of Molly, she is in a pretty basic orthodox doctrine.
And yes the three parts of the temple is a wonderful study, and very true. You would do well to get the book by George Warnock, "The Feast of Tabernacles." for me it has been a very good study. Wore out one and had to buy another. (Just a suggestion)
As for 1 Thes. 5:23, you just go ahead and do your own research, my influence would only lead you away from the orthodox religion and it's presumptions. Besides, Molly has the 3 in 1 blessed trinity pretty well done pat. Just don't overlook that the Lord Jehovah Himself said He is One. And as far as I have found out He never retracted that statement, may the Lord bless you in your journey. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[Molly]

Molly.. thanks for the Temple three in one ...  I guess I am involved and very interested...  do you have scriptures that refer to the Temple and its three parts (I'm not questioning three in one... just would like some Scriptures and I could look for them, but no doubt you already have some.)

Micah... I think I understand your interpretation of Gen 2:7... but what do you do with 1 Thess 5:23?   which in the Greek states ....whole spirit AND soul AND body...    it seems that Paul understands man= spirit AND soul AND body    ????


AND I just read three new replies that were made as I was typing this.  However, my questions remain...  Molly, I need Scriptures for Temple and three parts AND Micah, what do you with 1 Thess 5:23.

Speaktruth, somewhere on this board is a long thread on the Temple, it was done mostly by Cardinal and Whitewings, I think, it has pictures and everything, and it was pinned.  But I can't find it now.  Does anyone know where it is?  Jab?


Yes, Micah, YHWH elohiym is echad which means 'united' and comes from the word meaning 'to unify.'

[speaktruth]

Micah, speaking of  "presumptions", my family and friends and the people with whom I do occasionally fellowship would really have a good laugh...I've been away from Religion of all sizes, shapes, colors, beliefs, etc ... for many, many years. My question to you re: 1 Thess 5:23 was a sincere attempt to learn how you deal with it...  I'm always willing to learn.   


Molly, I just read your last post and I already found whitewings reply on the "timelines chart" about an hour ago and printed it... I didn't see cardinal's name anywhere...   it turned out to be a 7-page study...

what I was actually asking you was for OT Scriptures that actually have the words:  inner court, outer court, holy of holies...  I prefer studying Scripture verses in context.  thanks 

[micah7:9]

Micah, speaking of  "presumptions", my family and friends and the people with whom I do occasionally fellowship would really have a good laugh...I've been away from Religion of all sizes, shapes, colors, beliefs, etc ... for many, many years. My question to you re: 1 Thess 5:23 was a sincere attempt to learn how you deal with it...  I'm always willing to learn.   


Molly, I just read your last post and I already found whitewings reply on the "timelines chart" about an hour ago and printed it... I didn't see cardinal's name anywhere...   it turned out to be a 7-page study...

what I was actually asking you was for OT Scriptures that actually have the words:  inner court, outer court, holy of holies...  I prefer studying Scripture verses in context.  thanks

Whitewings did a great job on the tabernacle as well as Cardnial, but Warnocks book is full of OT why's and how comes with very good pictures. The study was very extentsive. Up to you though. As for Thes. perhaps some other time. Go a lookin, cause my word don't hold to much exceptence around here I'm finding out. God bless. :HeartThrob: