Citizenship?

[micah7:9]

I'm asking this question because there is much going on in America today, that for me as an American citizen and veteran that bothers me alot.
Yet, I was drawn to Jesus by the Father and I believe that by His faith I am being saved to be born again of the Spirit. So my question is,
should I be involved in the goings on of today in America? I have looked for evidence in the Bible which would invlove me. I found this
Luk 20:23  But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
Luk 20:24  Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
Luk 20:25  And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--

Rom 13:1  Let every individual be obedient to those who rule over him; for no one is a ruler except by God's permission, and our present rulers have had their rank and power assigned to them by Him.
Rom 13:2  Therefore the man who rebels against his ruler is resisting God's will; and those who thus resist will bring punishment upon themselves.
Rom 13:3  For judges and magistrates are to be feared not by right-doers but by wrong-doers. You desire--do you not? --to have no reason to fear your ruler. Well, do the thing that is right, and then he will commend you.
Rom 13:4  For he is God's servant for your benefit. But if you do what is wrong, be afraid. He does not wear the sword to no purpose: he is God's servant--an administrator to inflict punishment upon evil-doers.
Rom 13:5  We must obey therefore, not only in order to escape punishment, but also for conscience' sake.
Rom 13:6  Why, this is really the reason you pay taxes; for tax-gatherers are ministers of God, devoting their energies to this very work.
Rom 13:7  Pay promptly to all men what is due to them: taxes to those to whom taxes are due, toll to those to whom toll is due, respect to those to whom respect is due, honour to those to whom honour is due.
Rom 13:8  Owe nothing to any one except mutual love; for he who loves his fellow man has satisfied the demands of Law.

Am I to accept that The Lord is not the One who brought this time upon the earth/world/kosmos? To be involved with those who stand for America and Her Constitution, am I
releasing my faith in believing that I/Myself must make a stand rather than take the world's situation to the Lord in prayer and supplication? To rest in Him?
Most of what I have read and studied in the Word of God to walk in the Way, goes awry to how I am to be in the world as an American citizen.
Where truly is my citizenship? I find no place where I am to fight against, " Let every individual be obedient to those who rule over him; for no one is a ruler except by God's permission,
and our present rulers have had their rank and power assigned to them by Him.
Therefore the man who rebels against his ruler is resisting God's will; and those who thus resist will bring punishment upon themselves."

Is perhaps, the yet carnal man that I am, the one who revolts against the things that is instructed in the Bible and thinks or believes that getting into the fray, with my American citizenship
rather than resting in the knowledge, belief, and faith in,(my) ".... citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ-- "

Thank you :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[ded2daworld]

Good thoughts Micah. I too am torn. I have no respect for the president but know he needs prayer. In the old testament, didn't God let some truly awful kings rule the Hebrews? They were even defeated in battle by total pagans at times. They had lessons to learn. America needs to "return unto Him". Until or unless they do, it will not be a pretty sight. I think we have been off track more and more for the last 50 years, starting with kicking the Bible and prayer out of schools which were originally instituted to teach respect for God but now teach the opposite.  :Chinscratch:

[redhotmagma]

For me, I cannot "pledge allegiance" to a flag.  Nor do I hold my hand over my heart when the national anthem is sung.  I've also stopped voting, or following politics.  My citizenship is not a dual citizenship.  Thats just me.  I don't go tell people to do the same.  I don't sit in protest while the star spangled banner is sung.  I definitely don't look longingly toward the flag.  I'm respectful, but again for me, those things are not where I'm putting any hope, or trust.  America may be (have been) a great nation, but it is not nor was it ever a "christian nation" as it has a human head.  There is only one nation ruled by the true head, and I just realize I am a foreigner in this country of America/the world.

Those are the ideal reasons I don't participate.  The practical reason I don't vote is because the entire process is rigged, at least at the national and probably the state level.  And I just won't be a part of their shell game. 

:2c:

[Lazarus Short]

We are called citizens, but we really are not.  What advantage is it, being a citizen?  Our constitutional rights are curtailed year by year, elections are rigged more and more, so our votes count for little, except locally.  I have stopped voting in presidential elections, for it's always the evil of two lessers.  We are given no choice except to pay interest on the very money we use, which the Constitution directs the Congress critters to have printed for us at no cost.  Even our religious liberties have been subverted by the back door, using the 501(c)(3) tax exemption to nudge the churches into compliance or lose the exemption - thus a de facto State Church has been set up.

Perhaps the worst is that, if you examine the past century on a deeper level than History 101, you will find that the United States, Inc. (yes, it is a corporation) has been waging an ever-more-focused war against God, and against God's people.  I'll skip over the horrors of WWI/WWII with its millions of dead Christians, as they were not exclusively the agenda of the United States, Inc.  The United States, Inc, did stand by and let China fall to Mao & Co., and again many Christians were killed.  Korea, ditto.  Vietnam, ditto.  Of course, it could be argued that USI just kills, and doesn't care if it bombs Christians or Buddhists.  The focus tightened in Gulf Wars 1 & 2 - Muslims were the putative enemy, but they saw their country invaded by a "Christian" country, so any Christians in the country became enemies.  Many were killed, and many more fled.  Christianity, which had been well-tolerated in Iraq, is now almost extinct there.  The Coptic Christians of Egypt hang on in desperation - their lives in a Muslim-majority country were never easy, but it's worse now.  Now, it's all happening again in Syria.

To address Micah's concerns, you cannot save America - it was lost long ago, and the Republic for which Old Glory stands was lost long ago.  That is why I don't give the pledge of allegiance any more.  We are under foreign financial dominance through the private "Federal" Reserve Bank, we are under foreign military occupation (An estimated 1 million foreign troops are on American soil with weapons and the real head of US military forces is a Russian general under UN auspices.), and most of our people are fed false political ideology and false theology, so that we rabidly support our very enemies. 

It is not the old days of patriots vs. redcoats, when an American could have weapons equal to or better than the Brown Bess of the British infantryman.  Our former French allies have gone their own way, and really don't like us anymore.  Our former Russian allies (Yes, Russia did more for the War of Independence than most are aware of...) are now semi-enemies.  Those who rule over us have the drop on us by a huge margin, and we are going to have to ride this out with prayer and fasting.

God will yet save this country, but I believe He's taking U.S. out to the woodshed first...for He scourges every son who He receives. 

[Deena]

I share similar concerns about my beloved America, although I have to believe God is in control and the outcome will be His. Martin Zender has a hilarious clip on youtube called "God put Obama in the Whitehouse." Maybe we cannot solve the problems, but this piece will give you a good laugh.

[jbertonbounds]

Dude's funny! :laugh:

[micah7:9]

I see no lose of anything. We are in the midst of salvation, He is the Lord and Creator and well aware of all the circumstances, those who believe with faith know this is but the eye to His storm.  God is Spirit and the words that I speak are Spirit. Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Rev 19:10  and I fell before his feet, to bow before him, and he saith to me, `See--not! fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus; bow before God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.'

Our trust must be in Him, all we see in our today is what we see...yet it is not real in us. Believe and know.

[eaglesway]

I believe God raised up America to be a sort of Cyrus to Israel in the last days. I also believe He established it as a free space for ideas to flow, grow.....sciences to spring up, arts to develop, and to show both the benefits and the consequences of freedom. I thnk each person should be led by the Spirit in whatever they do- and I believe the Spirit leads some people away from political conflicts for certain reasons and purposes at the same time He leads others right into the middle of them. I am at times led to cry out against injustice, but more in the way the prophets of Israel did that as a simple atriot- because altho I love America- I realize it is as a passing shadow and my citizenship is from above. I am an alien and a stranger here. My kingdom is coming- but is not yet in full bloom in the earth.

I only hope it comes to full bloom in me and in us.

I think God is withering the gourd(America) that hangs over Jonah(Israel) and protects him from the heat of the day. When we are reduced, as I think we will be. Israel will be left alone before the whole world and then we will all see the glory of God as He delivers them from their enemies.

[Warhawk17]

I believe God raised up America to be a sort of Cyrus to Israel in the last days. I also believe He established it as a free space for ideas to flow, grow.....sciences to spring up, arts to develop, and to show both the benefits and the consequences of freedom. I thnk each person should be led by the Spirit in whatever they do- and I believe the Spirit leads some people away from political conflicts for certain reasons and purposes at the same time He leads others right into the middle of them. I am at times led to cry out against injustice, but more in the way the prophets of Israel did that as a simple atriot- because altho I love America- I realize it is as a passing shadow and my citizenship is from above. I am an alien and a stranger here. My kingdom is coming- but is not yet in full bloom in the earth.

I only hope it comes to full bloom in me and in us.

I think God is withering the gourd(America) that hangs over Jonah(Israel) and protects him from the heat of the day. When we are reduced, as I think we will be. Israel will be left alone before the whole world and then we will all see the glory of God as He delivers them from their enemies.

Those are some very interesting thoughts on God's possible plan for America. Of course we don't know exactly what His plan is yet, but it is fun to speculate. America is a very interesting country with a lot of interesting people. As much as I love my home country, I realize that things are going to only get worse (Obama is speeding up that process just fine) before God reveals Himself to everybody, and we all turn to God and repent.

The democratic party is hell bent on taking away religious freedom and eliminating God from all public events. Socialism is such an evil concept too. Take away from those who work hard and give it to those who hardly do anything is so evil. Capitalism and the Republican party aren't perfect by any means, but it creates more jobs and gives people more of an incentive to work harder. Anyways, I like what Zender says in that video though. He said something else recently about how he thinks the one world government will be a Christian, right wing organization with a leader that is very well liked and appears to be a man of god.

He doesn't think it will be the democratic party because they are too evil, and it would be too obvious to deceive anyone, yet a right wing organization would fool a lot of people with it's self-righteousness and appearing to be holy.

[eaglesway]

there are none who do right, no, not one. each has gone astray, seeking their own ways, but He has laid upon Him the iniquity of them all

[Wayfaring Stranger]

I believe God raised up America to be a sort of Cyrus to Israel in the last days. I also believe He established it as a free space for ideas to flow, grow.....sciences to spring up, arts to develop, and to show both the benefits and the consequences of freedom. I thnk each person should be led by the Spirit in whatever they do- and I believe the Spirit leads some people away from political conflicts for certain reasons and purposes at the same time He leads others right into the middle of them. I am at times led to cry out against injustice, but more in the way the prophets of Israel did that as a simple atriot- because altho I love America- I realize it is as a passing shadow and my citizenship is from above. I am an alien and a stranger here. My kingdom is coming- but is not yet in full bloom in the earth.

I only hope it comes to full bloom in me and in us.

I think God is withering the gourd(America) that hangs over Jonah(Israel) and protects him from the heat of the day. When we are reduced, as I think we will be. Israel will be left alone before the whole world and then we will all see the glory of God as He delivers them from their enemies.

Those are some very interesting thoughts on God's possible plan for America. Of course we don't know exactly what His plan is yet, but it is fun to speculate. America is a very interesting country with a lot of interesting people. As much as I love my home country, I realize that things are going to only get worse (Obama is speeding up that process just fine) before God reveals Himself to everybody, and we all turn to God and repent.

The democratic party is hell bent on taking away religious freedom and eliminating God from all public events. Socialism is such an evil concept too. Take away from those who work hard and give it to those who hardly do anything is so evil. Capitalism and the Republican party aren't perfect by any means, but it creates more jobs and gives people more of an incentive to work harder. Anyways, I like what Zender says in that video though. He said something else recently about how he thinks the one world government will be a Christian, right wing organization with a leader that is very well liked and appears to be a man of god.

He doesn't think it will be the democratic party because they are too evil, and it would be too obvious to deceive anyone, yet a right wing organization would fool a lot of people with it's self-righteousness and appearing to be holy.

When fascism comes to America it will carry a cross draped in a flag.  I firmly believe that.

As for the state of the country, I used to get really riled up about it and I was a very concerned voter.  I would watch the "news" all day, read books, and generally surf the web looking for political news.  Now, since I've felt my calling back to the Lord, I just...haven't...cared.  Things are waxing worse and worse but what can I do?  I take my concerns to a Higher Authority than the government and rest them at His Feet.  I know that God is in control and everything that is happening is going according to plan.  I don't break any laws and I just go about my day.  The flesh and blood authorities on this planet can only harm my flesh and blood which is but a shadow of what is to come. 

That's me though, and some people are probably called to be active in politics and that is between them and God.

[eaglesway]

facism has already come to this country in that way IMO. There are several major streams that are contending- always, for the hearts and minds of people. We can cloister away from this, if we are led to, or we can stand and becounted for decency and kindness and wisdom- whatever the Lord leads us to do as indivduals. I am both a gospel musician and a folk musician. I routinely speak for justice and equity and kindness- and against all forms of extremism, liberal or conservative- because that is the gift and the call I received from my Father. However, for many years i was not a participant in any discussion except for the scriptures- and at that time I fully believe I was doing what God wanted me to do and I believe the same thing now tho I am doing something different. My saying is this- Let each one be convinced in their own mind and let every servant stand before their own master and perform the task He has presently appointed them to. :o)

[Warhawk17]

Do you guys think that we can understand Bible prophecy better by keeping up with current events around the world? Or vice versa?

[eaglesway]

vice versa

[Ken]

Hello Gold,

I appreciate your sentiments completely. 
Thanks for the post.

Ken