A sin unto death

[rosered]

I have been  wondering what  this sin unto death is that we are not supposed to pray  for concerning someone who is in that sin ? 

Its in 1 john 5 
I am always thankful for prayers answered  and  so Happy when God hears  our prayers 
we are to pray without ceasing 

I looked at some places   in Jeremiah where God told them NOT to pray for these people  , and its concerning idolatry
  I noticed here in 1John is says  keep yourselves from idols
   Does anyone know  if its  this sin  ?   
Or has anyone   wondered what the sin unto death  is    that we are Not supposed to pray for life for them ?

Just what is this ? I have wondered for many years and  looked over the years , but would love some others views   on this   sin unto death

  Thanks  for any clues to what this is ?


14 This is the boldness which we have toward him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he listens to us.

15 And if we know that he listens to us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions which we have asked of him.



16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for those who sin not leading to death.


There is a sin leading to death. I don't say that he should make a request concerning this.


17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.


18 We know that whoever is born of God doesn't sin, but he who was born of God keeps himself, and the evil one doesn't touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

20 We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ.

This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

[lomarah]

Hey Rosie! This is from WW:

The answer is kherem. Leviticus 27:28-29 Devoted/destined for destruction. Saving it is the highest form of rebellion against God.
All Joshua's wars where kherem because all cities he attacked where Nephlim strongholds. Including Mt Hermon which is a word play on kherem.

[rosered]

  Great!!! Thanks WW  from Lormarah  , Thanks Sis

I just need to read Joshua  7 better !   
wish he would just come back here and help me out !!  :dsunny:   Miss  Toney !!!

aka White Wings


Kherem (Kharam) - Joshua 7


JOSHUA 7:12b  ". . . they turn their backs and run because they have been made liable to destruction. I will not be with you anymore unless you destroy whatever among you is devoted to destruction."
    JOS 7:13 "Go, consecrate the people. Tell them, `Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow; for this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: That which is devoted is among you, O Israel. You cannot stand against your enemies until you remove it."

on the city after it is burned (6:26). The actions of Achan[troubler ], then, are a clear indictment against him. He has disobeyed (rebelled), he has become 'impure,' he has robbed God, not to mention his greed and placing himself above his community. In effect, he has become accursed.

  This setting brings us to 7:12 where the Israelites have become "liable to destruction." The kherem has become kherem for the Israelites. They have become contaminated by the impurity. The destruction of the 'devoted things' has become the destruction of the people. This is the reason for God's words to Joshua that he "will not be with you anymore unless you destroy whatever among you is devoted to destruction" or ". . . destroy the accursed from among you." This 'accursed' would have to include not only those items themselves, but also the perpetrator who has become accursed with them.
Joshua 7, There is assuredly sin in our congregations (as I am sure there were other sins in the Israelite camp). However, there is an exceptional (extraordinary) nature to the 'devoted things' that must be purified and purged from our midst lest we be "liable to destruction." The kherem we tolerate or perpetuate in our congregations will become, for us, kherem – our own self-destruction.

[rosered]

Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 


Hbr 4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word [fn]they heard did not profit them, because [fn]it was not united by faith in those who heard. 


Hbr 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. 


Hbr 4:4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS"; 


Hbr 4:5 and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST." 


Hbr 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 


Hbr 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying [fn]through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS." 


Hbr 4:8 For if [fn]Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 
Hbr 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 

[eaglesway]

I have been  wondering what  this sin unto death is that we are not supposed to pray  for concerning someone who is in that sin ? 

Its in 1 john 5 
I am always thankful for prayers answered  and  so Happy when God hears  our prayers 
we are to pray without ceasing 

I looked at some places   in Jeremiah where God told them NOT to pray for these people  , and its concerning idolatry
  I noticed here in 1John is says  keep yourselves from idols
   Does anyone know  if its  this sin  ?   
Or has anyone   wondered what the sin unto death  is    that we are Not supposed to pray for life for them ?

Just what is this ? I have wondered for many years and  looked over the years , but would love some others views   on this   sin unto death

  Thanks  for any clues to what this is ?


14 This is the boldness which we have toward him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he listens to us.

15 And if we know that he listens to us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions which we have asked of him.



16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for those who sin not leading to death.


There is a sin leading to death. I don't say that he should make a request concerning this.


17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.


18 We know that whoever is born of God doesn't sin, but he who was born of God keeps himself, and the evil one doesn't touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

20 We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ.

This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

IMO it does not say we are not supposed to pray for a person committing a "sin unto death". What it says is this. If someone is committing a sin "not unto death"(drug use or drinking, swearing, stealing, consensual sex before marriage- for instance) if you pray for that person(brother or sister/believr), God will forgive them their sin and "give them life for it"- voiding the death that would normally result from that sin. "Whomsoever sins you retain shall be retained, whosoever sins you remit shall be remitted".

If a person is commtting a sin unto death(adultery, sorcery, rape, for instance) praying for them will not suffice to "remit" their sin- they must repent and acknowledge their sin.

We ARE TO PRAY for people who fall into whatever, and likewise to seek prayer should we ourselves(marvel not, look at the life of David, man after God's own heart) should fall into such a sin, but the prayer alone will not suffice to deliver us from the "kolassis" that will begin to come upon our life if we continue in it. Death- not necessarily "dying" but the fruit of death- confusion, depression, anxieties, enmities- for instance- will continue to fall on us until we "yield".

"Go, and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you" Jesus remitted her sin and delivered her from one form of the death that accompanied that sin(under the OT)- but He warned her to change her ways lest a fate worse than dying come upon her.
Death, as the penalty for/fruit of sin, can come in several forms worse than dying.

The result of this death is to drive the "lost sheep" back towards the shepherd and the sheepfold, where their danger can be diminished and their lives lived in relative peace, led beside still waters" and made to "lie down in green pastures".

:2c:

[CHB]

Thanks eaglesway, I have wondered about this also.

CHB

[rosered]

   Thanks John
  Yes it does help ,when you break it down like that  :girlheart:

[eaglesway]

Y'all are welcome :o)  Hey CHB- I am likely to be in boone, NC some time next week for a couple days. Coffee?

[CHB]

Y'all are welcome :o)  Hey CHB- I am likely to be in boone, NC some time next week for a couple days. Coffee?

eaglesway, that is wonderful, only thing is, I am leaving Friday the 24th to  go on a vacation with my daughter and her family. We will be back on the 31th. Will that be too late for the coffee? If it is, maybe the next time you come to Boone? By the way, did you hear that Doc Watson died, or did you know him? He lived in Boone.

CHB

[eaglesway]

Yes, I heard Doc died and was sorry to hear it. I did not know him, but he was a grand old man of appalachian music. I am only going to be in town a couple days, so we will miss each other, but I will be bac for a longer stay later on this summer. Then we will hav a cup o joe and break bread :o) Hav a great vacation!

[CHB]

Thanks, sounds great.  :banana: I am also going to be gone the first week of July but after that I am free.  Just let me know.

CHB

[TomH]

I have been  wondering what  this sin unto death is that we are not supposed to pray  for concerning someone who is in that sin ? 

Its in 1 john 5 
I am always thankful for prayers answered  and  so Happy when God hears  our prayers 
we are to pray without ceasing 

I looked at some places   in Jeremiah where God told them NOT to pray for these people  , and its concerning idolatry
  I noticed here in 1John is says  keep yourselves from idols
   Does anyone know  if its  this sin  ?   
Or has anyone   wondered what the sin unto death  is    that we are Not supposed to pray for life for them ?

Just what is this ? I have wondered for many years and  looked over the years , but would love some others views   on this   sin unto death

  Thanks  for any clues to what this is ?


14 This is the boldness which we have toward him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he listens to us.

15 And if we know that he listens to us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions which we have asked of him.



16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for those who sin not leading to death.


There is a sin leading to death. I don't say that he should make a request concerning this.


17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.


18 We know that whoever is born of God doesn't sin, but he who was born of God keeps himself, and the evil one doesn't touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

20 We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ.

This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

16 The sin to death is probably the same as that of the sixth and tenth of Hebrews-apostasy from the faith of Christ, or, in view of the times for which this is written, the reception of the emblem of the wild beast (Un.14:10). That this is the setting in which this passage is to be interpreted is further suggested by the phrase in the nineteenth verse, "the whole world is lying in the wicked one." This will be especially true in the time of the end. Furthermore, we have the striking conclusion of the epistle, which can hardly be understood in any other light. "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." What idols? Does it not seem clear that the apostle, with prophetic eye, is anticipating that marvelous image, which all will be compelled to worship under pain of death? (Un. 31:15). (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament-page 372)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/ConcordantCommentary/CC00.htm

http://concordant.org/version/CLNT_Intro.htm