Fear of Hell

[Jock]

I've known the Lord for 36 years and the bulk of that time was spent in churches and groups, all preaching hell. The last group I was with were really pretty intense. The saw themselves as the body of Christ and nobody else, unless they approved of the person.

With all the doctrines and threats I received over the years, I was absolutely convinced that Hell is real. I left that group much to their disapproval and they told me I had left the "body". I changed my phone number, my email address, and we actually moved to another town. I was terrified of these people and I thought God was going to kill me and throw me into Hell. I was a basket case and went through a mental and emotional breakdown. I was admitted to a psychiatric unit and put on strong medication.

One day, I googled "Is Hell real?" and Tentmaker came up with writings by Gary Amirault. I wasn't quite convinced because the doctrine of eternal torment was so saturated in my mind.

I started getting books by Gerry Beauchamin "Hope beyond Hell" Carlton Pearson "The doctrine of inclusion" Louis Charles "Jesus religion" and several others, and I joined Tentmaker. I was on the path to recovery and I started to hear the Spirit's voice again. It takes a long time to get that poison (which is like a virus) out of one's head but today, I am readily convinced that God is good and that men, over the centuries, have written the doctrine of Hell into the scriptures in order to control the populous.

Sincerely

Jock.

[lomarah]

Thanks for sharing Jock.  :cloud9:
Many of our stories are similar, including mine. Praising God for bringing us all out of the darkness into his marvelous light.  :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

Jock, I thank God that you have come out of pervasive darkness into the brilliant Son-shine! :dsunny:

[Jock]

Thanks guys, it's good to be here  :Peace2:

[jbertonbounds]

I've heard that same story over and over of how people are hurt by the heresy of hell.  Those poor folks are deceived by mostly well-meaning, loving Christians who think they are teaching truth.  However, some so-called Christians are not well-meaning, and they want hell to exist and they want you to go there if you disagree with their doctrine.  They are modern-day Pharisees, complete with their set of man-made doctrine and man-made precepts.  They are modern-day Jonahs, eager to see the destruction and eternal torture of sinners.  It all sounds good to them, but where is the Love?  Where is the love? :dunno2:

Most people, well-meaning or not, think that because hell is in the Bible, that it's all perfectly inerrant and infallible.  However, Bibles are not the inspired, inerrant word of God.  Bibles are TRANSLATIONS of the inspired, inerrant word of God.  Most Bible translations, IMO, are good, but not inerrant.  Hell doctrine SO badly distorts the gospel and the beautiful story of God's plan for his entire creation.  I was telling my wife just the other day that it's so much more than simply not believing in hell.  Hell has become such an integral part of the theology of the modern church organizations, that they have been rendered almost ineffective in reaching people with the gospel in this modern society.

[eaglesway]

The doctrine of hell is one of several "towers and strongholds" that exalt themselves against "the true knowledge of God".

The true knowledge of God is rooted and grounded in love, because God IS LOVE, and the I AM who we are all "getting to know" is only willing to be known "AS HE IS", so that as we are transformed into the image of Christ, who is the image of God- it is about becoming "partakers of the divine nature".

We have this treasure in earthen vessels, clay pots- breakable, fragile, but containing the precious ointment of the divine nature of Jesus, the aroma of LIFE ETERNAL- the life of God which is without beginning or end or limit.

These "towers" act like shadows obscuring the sunlight- but the light shines in the darkness and the darkness "cannot overcome it".

The earth(carnal mind) is formelss and void(without the "image of Christ")- but the Spirit hovers over the waters and will speak, "Let there be light"! and dry land(foundation) will appear, "under-standing".

We are that light, if we are shining in the divine nature- loving one another- walking "in Christ", "in the Spirit", "in the consuming fire".

If anyone has not recieved our good news it is because the God of this world has blinded (veiled, shadowed) their eyes that they might not see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Cor 4).

When we are torn with Him by their refusal of our good news, we want to pray, "Father forgive them, they don't kno what they are doing".

THEY DON"T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING :o)

They are proclaiming a false, defiled, obscured gospel of "bad news"- but we are not as they are- condemning and hostile.

We persuade men in the divine nature of Christ, having been entrusted by God withe the WORD OR RECONCILIATION- our ministry of reconciliation, our good news that "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not holding their sins against them".

Peace.

[jbertonbounds]

That was awesome, Eaglesway!
It is evident that you truly see the beauty of the truth of the Christ and his salvation. :thumbsup:

[shawn]

I've known the Lord for 36 years and the bulk of that time was spent in churches and groups, all preaching hell. The last group I was with were really pretty intense. The saw themselves as the body of Christ and nobody else, unless they approved of the person.

With all the doctrines and threats I received over the years, I was absolutely convinced that Hell is real. I left that group much to their disapproval and they told me I had left the "body". I changed my phone number, my email address, and we actually moved to another town. I was terrified of these people and I thought God was going to kill me and throw me into Hell. I was a basket case and went through a mental and emotional breakdown. I was admitted to a psychiatric unit and put on strong medication.

One day, I googled "Is Hell real?" and Tentmaker came up with writings by Gary Amirault. I wasn't quite convinced because the doctrine of eternal torment was so saturated in my mind.

I started getting books by Gerry Beauchamin "Hope beyond Hell" Carlton Pearson "The doctrine of inclusion" Louis Charles "Jesus religion" and several others, and I joined Tentmaker. I was on the path to recovery and I started to hear the Spirit's voice again. It takes a long time to get that poison (which is like a virus) out of one's head but today, I am readily convinced that God is good and that men, over the centuries, have written the doctrine of Hell into the scriptures in order to control the populous.

Sincerely

Jock.

Wow, do I love how you worded that...path to recovery.  That is exactly what this place is for...recovery from spiritual abuse...doctrines which distort the image of our loving heavenly Father.

[eaglesway]

Absolutely!

[dajomaco]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

[Jock]

I couldn't agree more with you all. This book is new on the market and it truly is a doctrine of devils. What I would call "spiritual pornography". In fact, it is worse than pornography.

You are right eaglesway, we are definitely involved in spiritual warfare, but nothing can overcome faith

Jock


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22512160

[jbertonbounds]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

That's from Romans 5:10.  Wow, I was familiar with this verse, but I never before saw it in the light of UR.  We were already reconciled by Jesus while we were still living in sin.  No formula prayer to "get saved," no specific moment in our lives when we "accepted Christ," and no difference between us and the rest of the sinners.  We are all sinners, by nature.  We who follow the Christ are "much more" saved, like it says in the verse, and "especially" saved as in 1 Tim 4.10: "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.
:dsunny:

[Eduard]

Even when I didn't read the Bible, when I heard of hell, I just kept thinking "This is not coming from God, it can't be". Even moreso after I read the Bible and UR material.

[eaglesway]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

That's from Romans 5:10.  Wow, I was familiar with this verse, but I never before saw it in the light of UR.  We were already reconciled by Jesus while we were still living in sin.  No formula prayer to "get saved," no specific moment in our lives when we "accepted Christ," and no difference between us and the rest of the sinners.  We are all sinners, by nature.  We who follow the Christ are "much more" saved, like it says in the verse, and "especially" saved as in 1 Tim 4.10: "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.
:dsunny:

I do not read this that we were enemies and reconciled to God at the same time. When(at that time) we(us who have been reconciled) were enemies, we were reconciled- by grace, through faith. At that point in which we were reconciled, we crossed over from enemies of God into being children of the Most High, sheep of His pasture- by grace.. Now that we are reconciled- no longer enemies, we are being saved(delivered, healed, made whole) by His life- which is now in us because everyone who has believed has passed from death unto life.

We were translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His glorious light. The difference between us and those who remain enemies, unreconciled- is not because of any righteousness of our own, but because of the calling and election of God- who has made us the first fruits from among the dead.

Yet God has called us to warn the wicked from His way, as well as to offer free salvation to all those appointed to "hear" it. If we are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, it is a part of our fulfilling the sufferings of Christ for the world that crucified Him- joining with Him as sons, who also offerred salvation, even as also He warned the wicked from their way. :2c:

The cool thing to me is that most of the wicked He warned were religionists and rulers, not what the so-called church calls so-called "sinners".

[jbertonbounds]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

That's from Romans 5:10.  Wow, I was familiar with this verse, but I never before saw it in the light of UR.  We were already reconciled by Jesus while we were still living in sin.  No formula prayer to "get saved," no specific moment in our lives when we "accepted Christ," and no difference between us and the rest of the sinners.  We are all sinners, by nature.  We who follow the Christ are "much more" saved, like it says in the verse, and "especially" saved as in 1 Tim 4.10: "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.
:dsunny:

I do not read this that we were enemies and reconciled to God at the same time. When(at that time) we(us who have been reconciled) were enemies, we were reconciled- by grace, through faith. At that point in which we were reconciled, we crossed over from enemies of God into being children of the Most High, sheep of His pasture- by grace.. Now that we are reconciled- no longer enemies, we are being saved(delivered, healed, made whole) by His life- which is now in us because everyone who has believed has passed from death unto life.

We were translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His glorious light. The difference between us and those who remain enemies, unreconciled- is not because of any righteousness of our own, but because of the calling and election of God- who has made us the first fruits from among the dead.

Yet God has called us to warn the wicked from His way, as well as to offer free salvation to all those appointed to "hear" it. If we are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, it is a part of our fulfilling the sufferings of Christ for the world that crucified Him- joining with Him as sons, who also offerred salvation, even as also He warned the wicked from their way. :2c:

The cool thing to me is that most of the wicked He warned were religionists and rulers, not what the so-called church calls so-called "sinners".

I guess I wasn't very clear on what I was saying.  What I was trying to say is that Jesus has already made reconciliation possible for all people.  I do see reconciliation as something that is not yet fully accomplished.  I don't think it would be accurate to say that those who are still living evil lifestyles at this point are already reconciled to God.  I agree with what you are saying, but I am still a little unsure on some of these issues.  Do you believe salvation and reconciliation are the same thing?

[dajomaco]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
   

I believe that we are reconciled to God as enemies.
My flesh is still at war with God.
My spirit has been made alive as Jesus lives so does my Spirit.
My flesh dies more and more as my Spirit lives more and more.

To be alive and independently move about we need eyes that see.
Even the most independent blind person needs some one with sight to help him.
We use our eyes so much that we can make none conscience decision.
We trust our eyes, seeing IS BELIEVING. Our flesh relies on
the information our eyes give.


19 In the evening of that first day of the week, the disciples were gathered together with the doors locked because of their fear of the Jews. Then Jesus came, stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!"
20 Having said this, He showed them His hands and His side. So the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 After saying this, He breathed on them and said,[d] "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Thomas Sees and Believes
24 But one of the Twelve, Thomas (called "Twin"), was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples kept telling him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "If I don't see the mark of the nails in His hands, put my finger into the mark of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe!"
26 After eight days His disciples were indoors again, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them. He said, "Peace to you!"
27 Then He said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and observe My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Don't be an unbeliever, but a believer."28 Thomas responded to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed.[e] Those who believe without seeing are blessed."

Our eyes are at war with God.
The Spirit tells our spirit what he sees.
When the Spirit tells me what he sees .
I internalize it and try to get my flesh to see and understand.
I have discerned this to be folly.

Let the Messiah, the King of Israel, come down now from the cross, so that we may see and believe." Even those who were crucified with Him were taunting Him.

I have entered into a reconciled relationship with God.
I can calm my flesh (it nashes its teeth and moans at the darkness)
My flesh is left in outer darkness whenever I see and move in the Spirit.
I can move in Love and Joy .
My flesh because it can not see the kingdom of God does not
get the opportunity to boast.



Jesus told him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will not believe."

"What sign then are You going to do so we may see and believe You?"

[jbertonbounds]

Do you believe salvation and reconciliation are the same thing?

[shawn]

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

That's from Romans 5:10.  Wow, I was familiar with this verse, but I never before saw it in the light of UR.  We were already reconciled by Jesus while we were still living in sin.  No formula prayer to "get saved," no specific moment in our lives when we "accepted Christ," and no difference between us and the rest of the sinners.  We are all sinners, by nature.  We who follow the Christ are "much more" saved, like it says in the verse, and "especially" saved as in 1 Tim 4.10: "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.
:dsunny:

I do not read this that we were enemies and reconciled to God at the same time. When(at that time) we(us who have been reconciled) were enemies, we were reconciled- by grace, through faith. At that point in which we were reconciled, we crossed over from enemies of God into being children of the Most High, sheep of His pasture- by grace.. Now that we are reconciled- no longer enemies, we are being saved(delivered, healed, made whole) by His life- which is now in us because everyone who has believed has passed from death unto life.

We were translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His glorious light. The difference between us and those who remain enemies, unreconciled- is not because of any righteousness of our own, but because of the calling and election of God- who has made us the first fruits from among the dead.

Yet God has called us to warn the wicked from His way, as well as to offer free salvation to all those appointed to "hear" it. If we are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, it is a part of our fulfilling the sufferings of Christ for the world that crucified Him- joining with Him as sons, who also offerred salvation, even as also He warned the wicked from their way. :2c:

The cool thing to me is that most of the wicked He warned were religionists and rulers, not what the so-called church calls so-called "sinners".

Beautiful!

[Lazarus Short]

I couldn't agree more with you all. This book is new on the market and it truly is a doctrine of devils. What I would call "spiritual pornography". In fact, it is worse than pornography.

You are right eaglesway, we are definitely involved in spiritual warfare, but nothing can overcome faith

Jock


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22512160

As usual, another work of fiction to support the idea of "Hell."  Hell is a fiction, and fiction is its only support.  Fiction = lies.

[jedi1989]

I was a nominal christian for sometime, but when God touched me and started to wash my conscience clean, I suddenly was tormented by this very doctrine of ET. Thankfully God lead me to various websites online where He showed me how truly Loving, and how truly in control He really is or I could honestly have had gone insane. Perhaps He allowed me to go through it so that I can see how important it really is to liberate poor souls from such a demonic doctrine. This fear can really drive people nuts especially when one take it seriously. Those that are not nuts have their conscience somehow seared, their hearts hardened, making Christianity either full of heartless people or insane people. Truly an evil teaching. So don't be too hard on them, many of them don't know any better.
Gives the phrase "saving people from Hell" a totally new meaning.   :2c:

[jbertonbounds]

I was a nominal christian for sometime, but when God touched me and started to wash my conscience clean, I suddenly was tormented by this very doctrine of ET. Thankfully God lead me to various websites online where He showed me how truly Loving, and how truly in control He really is or I could honestly have had gone insane. Perhaps He allowed me to go through it so that I can see how important it really is to liberate poor souls from such a demonic doctrine. This fear can really drive people nuts especially when one take it seriously. Those that are not nuts have their conscience somehow seared, their hearts hardened, making Christianity either full of heartless people or insane people. Truly an evil teaching. So don't be too hard on them, many of them don't know any better.
Gives the phrase "saving people from Hell" a totally new meaning.   :2c:

Good testimony!

Those that are not nuts have their conscience somehow seared, their hearts hardened, making Christianity either full of heartless people or insane people.

That's funny, man. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Gives the phrase "saving people from Hell" a totally new meaning.   :2c:

I love it!  I guess I really am trying to save people from hell. :laughing7: :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

HAHA  cool! Totally new meaning :o)

[Warhawk17]

I was a nominal christian for sometime, but when God touched me and started to wash my conscience clean, I suddenly was tormented by this very doctrine of ET. Thankfully God lead me to various websites online where He showed me how truly Loving, and how truly in control He really is or I could honestly have had gone insane. Perhaps He allowed me to go through it so that I can see how important it really is to liberate poor souls from such a demonic doctrine. This fear can really drive people nuts especially when one take it seriously. Those that are not nuts have their conscience somehow seared, their hearts hardened, making Christianity either full of heartless people or insane people. Truly an evil teaching. So don't be too hard on them, many of them don't know any better.
Gives the phrase "saving people from Hell" a totally new meaning.   :2c:

I feel like I can relate to you a lot. I was pretty happy and at peace with Catholicism until about 8th grade when we got this new priest. He was a big scary guy, former college football player who had a pretty intense conversion. But he basically told me class that whenever we sinned we were going to Hell unless we confessed and repented. That scared me, and I began to question how loving God was. He literally scared the hell out of me lol. I also found some pretty demonic sites about Hell around that time which just added to my fears, but luckily I found some great people in the church I could express my fears to, and they comforted me greatly. These fears went away then pretty much until senior year of high school when I started listening to more fundamentalist preaching after I saw some stuff on tv. The fears and depression came back until God gracefully led me to this site, which liberated me! I like what you said about God putting you  through that fear and hopelessness because it does make one feel more compassion toward people who are going through that. I wondered for a while why God put me through that in the first place, and I think you finally just gave me the answer! Thank you, and much love.  :HeartThrob:

[jedi1989]

He literally scared the hell out of me lol.

Haha, lets Love the Hell out of people instead!  :thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

He literally scared the hell out of me lol.

Haha, lets Love the Hell out of people instead!  :thumbsup:

LIKE
:thumbsup: