Why I Left the Church

[ded2daworld]

Not to mention those of us that are denied service participation at church for "openly" being UR. :doh:

[jbertonbounds]

A sobering thought, Ded2.  When we teach UR in most protestant churches, we become the one who has "fallen" in their eyes.  I guess that's why so many of us can relate to the idea of leaving a church who has looked down on us or judged us.  Just think, even Jesus was kicked out of church, in a manner of speaking.

[Molly]

That's because they associate UR with an anything goes attitude, and leaving the standards of the church, which is often the case, btw.  Around these parts, the churches are barely recognizable with their book of the month club, let's hear from the Buddhists this week because we all worship the same God, Jesus is just one of many advanced Masters, etc etc

This is the future of the American church --total confusion.  UR can become a scapegoat for that, even though it's not intrinsically condoning any of that.  Many of the people on this board are among the most serious Christians I have ever seen.  But, it is a perception that needs to be handled or suffered. :2c:

[misszoolander]

We are all sinners but if you see someone you know destroying themselves by their behavior do you just turn away, not say anything, or do you talk to them about their problem?

Yes I do speak to them, the heartbreak and confusion in my generation is very apparent. People only living for a good time, people striving just to make it. People wondering why everyone is so self centered, materialistic and lost these days. I have had friends on the brink of suicide knock on my door. I've sat people down and really tell them that the reason why they have all these addictions is because they are filling up a void, a hole that keeps growing bigger, the thing is that nine times out of ten they listen. Listen. They listen because they see a light God has blessed me with, that they don't have.


No, but if we also keep our mouths shut and don't lift a finger to help them, pull them out of the fire, so to speak, then we certaintly are patting them on the back and enabling them to continue down a dark road. Is that loving them or just being uncaring and uninterested in their problem?

Who said anything about this? If I have a friend about to steal, lie or even gossip in front of me I am quick to say I won't take part, we might not be able to stop their behaviour but we can influence them and stop our own. If I see a person suffering consequences because of their actions I'm going to be a good friend and let them know why!


I have never suggested to stay away from these people, I think Paul did on certain occasions though.

First we let them know we love them but God loves them more. We pray for them. We talk to them, we point them in a better direction. If you were lost on an unfamiliar road, wouldn't you hope that someone would come along and point you in the right direction? Sometimes these people are desperate for someone to do just that. Sometimes an alcoholic is an alcoholic because they just don't know how to deal with things and no one has CARED enough to help them. 


Exactly, this is why I build relationships with these people so I CAN point them in the right direction, seems we are actually talking about the same thing CHB? I don't understand where our differences lie?


What do you think God called us out for? Did he call us out to sit on our behinds and not lift a finger to help anyone? The love of many has grown cold, no one cares and the world is becoming worse and worse. No one wants to rock the boat, no one wants to speak out about anything. No one wants to tell the world about how Jesus came to save the world and he did. Everyone is afraid of being rejected, persecuted, not showing love to the sinner, I guess. I believe the time is coming when God will light a fire under our tails and then we will react. God uses us when it's his time to do so.

I'm sorry but I hope you are not assuming that I myself do this? I don't understand the hostility in your message, to be honest it kinda rocks my boat. I feel like you think I'm some airy fairy young women whose frolicking with sinners while pretending to live a Godly life. I can assure you, since the love of our Lord and Saviour has ignited my soul, I am ever more aware how URGENTLY the good news to be spread! how URGENTLY people need to know the truth, how people need to know that Jesus saves us from our sin! I for one am not going to sit back and see most of my fellow young persons drown in their misery.. NO WAY.



When we agree with their life style, hang out with them and never try to encourage them to seek help or change their way of life then we are patting them on the back.

Just the way I see this.

CHB


Great, completely agree, however I am willing to do it from a place of friendship, mentoring and love. Being a complete stranger to someone and doing this helps little.

I have to admit CHB, your post was quite challenging, I feel that you made a lot of assumptions about me that were not justified. Maybe I took it the wrong way, however we are both followers in Christ, I pray for his guidance in this discussion.

[lomarah]

Again, you are very inspiring to me! It sounds like you are being used as a light for Him. Awesome.  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

That's a good post missz, and I think you actually clarified some things - VERY well - about what you do believe and how you operate.  I personally find that though tiring, sometimes keeping after some of these things does eventually bring more clarity, and as you say, we finally see that we're talking much about the same things anyway.  Ah, communication.   :dsunny:

I know CHB a little bit, her heart, and where she comes from.  Some of the things you reference missz, I believe was C just taking the opportunity to address some other broader/more global issues within the church that was triggered/somewhat by and related to yours and her direct discussion - not that it was all personal to you.   :2c:

Blessings!

[jabcat]

You'll probably remember Z a little while back I said something like "you spend a lot of time with X,Y,Z type of folks.  Maybe you have some things to share that would be helpful to others about how you deal with the situation(s)."     Your awesome post just now was what I was really asking you.   :laugh:    :thumbsup:

[misszoolander]

Thank you Lo,

I guess I am in the midst of a generation that is very, very lost. Conditioned to TV, partying and drinking.
Conditioned to skinny models, atheism and the whole YOLO (you only live once) lifestyle. 

Yet I find that on the surface these people seem to act like robots, sheep being led to slaughter, but deep down inside there is pondering, questions, desires. There is a need for something, something that words can not express, and language can not contain.

People think that it might be the ideal partner, money and fancy homes, or a successful career with kids. However we know this is not the case, these things all pass away. They know it too, which is why they are desperately filling up the aches and hole in their lives, with things that will make them feel more worthy.

I remember one night I got a text from my friend at one in the morning, she was a relationship/sex addict.She asked me one simple question "Why do I hate myself? Why do I want to die?". I invited her over in the morning, cooked her a big breakfast, and for the whole day I just sat down with her and talked, we talked and talked and talked. We talked about many things, her Dad, her friends, my upbringing, her upbringing, and most importantly we talked about God. She was interested, so much so that she downloaded a bible app the very next day.

One time she told me that she was having a bad day, and she cried to God, and she sensed a smell coming into her room, it was the smell of my birds and house and the cooked breakfast we had together, and she told me that she knew God was there while we were talking, and that he was there now with her as she was crying.

How great is the Lord  :HeartThrob:

[misszoolander]

That's a good post missz, and I think you actually clarified some things - VERY well - about what you do believe and how you operate.  I personally find that though tiring, sometimes keeping after some of these things does eventually bring more clarity, and as you say, we finally see that we're talking much about the same things anyway.  Ah, communication.   :dsunny:

I know CHB a little bit, her heart, and where she comes from.  Some of the things you reference missz, I believe was C just taking the opportunity to address some other broader/more global issues within the church that was triggered/somewhat by and related to yours and her direct discussion - not that it was all personal to you.   :2c:

Blessings!

Thanks Jab  :thumbsup:  :friendstu:

Rereading CHB's post I feel this is where she was more coming from, thanks for clarifying :) Ah it's so hard to communicate without showing body language! lol

I'm trying to improve on this communication thing, sometimes I jump the gun abit! Being a women I can get quite emotional, which might sound like I'm being over dramatic...so just warning you all now  :laughhand:

Back to C's post, in the broader sense we can not acknowledge that the world is going to be OK with the way it's morals are heading. It's not going to be ok, there are consequences. That's the lie this world has been brought into.. that things will be ok , because really a lifestyle of sin does not really have consequences. We know things are NOT OK, not ok at all, and all I have to do is just turn on the TV to be faced with reality of how sick this world is. People are subconsciously screaming out for a saviour, they just need to know who, and what he is, and what he has in store for them.  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

:)    :dsunny:

[misszoolander]

Thank you Watch,

Such words makes my heart sing for God, and my spirit soar.
We must all learn from each other, grow together and inspire each other to bear the fruit that the Lord has placed within our hearts, and most importantly we must offer this fruit to others so they too can experience the love of our Great and powerful God. :dsunny:

[CHB]

I have to admit CHB, your post was quite challenging, I feel that you made a lot of assumptions about me that were not justified. Maybe I took it the wrong way, however we are both followers in Christ, I pray for his guidance in this discussion.

Oh missz!! please do not take my posts as being directed at you personally. I am sorry if I came across as being hostile, I certainly did not mean to. I was speaking in general and just aimed at things going on in the Church and world. I am glad to hear you are getting the opportunity to witness to people, you are truly blessed.  :dsunny:

Thank you Jabcat for explaining my intentions. You were right on.  :HeartThrob:

CHB

[misszoolander]

Hehe it's ok CHB  :thumbsup:  :Peace2:

[reFORMer]

I don't intend to make too much of it, God looks at our hearts.  What we leave is Mystical Babylon, Mother of Whores.  The Church is the Eclessia, those called out to be the bride and house of God.  Many times we fall into using the word "church" for both the false and the true.  It can be very confusing to many people.  We're not against the Church.  We're for coming out of Babylon.  For years I didn't use the word "church."  I've become a little lacks about it.  Are people to think we're talking about a sectarian religious Institution, a steeple house down the street, an organization that promotes homosexuality and shelters child abusers? maybe it's a system of beliefs?  May think of what people who are called Christians do on a Sunday morning as the church.  I either explain what I mean with the word church or I use eclessia and explain.

[jbertonbounds]

Hey reFORMer,
You are right on!  We don't "go to church."  We are the church - who have been called out of the world, have let self die, and follow Christ.  Unfortunately, the word "church" is misused 99.99% of the time.  I have tried my best to only use it properly, but it seems the English language fails to produce words that seem to fit the buildings the church uses, the organization, or the things we do on Sunday.  Anybody have any suggestions of what to call these things, besides "church?"

[jbertonbounds]

Is it not degrading in a way to call "church" some of the things we call "church?"  Think about it.  An occult group can set up a meeting place, and we will call it a "so-n-so church."  What a lie.  What profanity. :sigh: :doh:

[CHB]

Here is an article about the word Church.

http://www.askelm.com/secrets/sec101.htm

CHB

[Molly]

Is it not degrading in a way to call "church" some of the things we call "church?"  Think about it.  An occult group can set up a meeting place, and we will call it a "so-n-so church."  What a lie.  What profanity. :sigh: :doh:

Call it what the Bible calls it, the ekklesia, which means a called out or called forth assembly.   The same word is applied to those who stood at Mt Sinai, receiving the commandments of God from Moses.

[ded2daworld]

Here's a suggestion:
Church (the building) be called "the Meeting Place"
Church (the members) call ourselves the "Ekklesia"
Christians in Alaska may call themselves "the frozen chosen" :laughing7:

Until Christians are persecuted, REALLY persecuted, (not just mocked or made fun of) there will always be those that call thenselves "christian" when they don't have the slightest idea what if truly means.

[lomarah]

I'm in Northern Alberta and I'm feeling a lot like a frozen chosen LOL.

[eaglesway]

Is it not degrading in a way to call "church" some of the things we call "church?"  Think about it.  An occult group can set up a meeting place, and we will call it a "so-n-so church."  What a lie.  What profanity. :sigh: :doh:

In fact, most of the words key to our faith have been perverted by religion.

Gospel- get right with God or burn forever.
Faith- want something hard enough you will get it
Submission- do what you are told my men in leadership even if you think its wrong
Love- Warm fuzzy feeling irrespective of accountability
Preach- rail at sinners
Teach- indoctrinate proselytes

I could go on but why bother- only the Spirit can set us free from religious deception.

I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.
(1Co 2:3-16)

[marie glen]

To me the churches were frustrating.. when you hear the Word read, in a denomination, you can feel the Lord's presence.. but the people can be a different thing.. sideways looks.. what not.. Of course none of that matters if I were to flow with the fruit(s) of the Spirit.. but of course, I fall short too..

One day in a church I'd been going to for a bit, they had an interim preacher while looking for their new one. He read straight scripture! No straying into stories about this or that. My spirit drank it up and I was inspired and refreshed. Then what do I hear after church? Some saying how boring he was! I thought, whAt?!!?!

So then I tried Pentecostal churches.. or folks.. but I got weary with the whole super saint / spiritual hero thing, which never did jive with me.. Then I checked out this tiny wooden church in a tiny town down the road from me, but that turned out to be a private sort of church, sort of old school Mormonish, in that I think maybe the guy was looking for other wives.. I don't know, I never went back..

I had a dream once, tho, that stopped me short.. I'd been riding with my husband in a semi truck (you used to be able to do that) through the mountains of Pennsylvania and gazing over the backs of some Amish settlements in the hills.. I had a dream of a one story, wooden church on a street. Its very wide front doors led straight to the street, with just one step down to it. The doors were open wide and water was flowing out of the church, down the step, and into the street.. and the water filled and flowed down the street, connecting with the stream which was running out of all churches in all the world..

[Lazarus Short]

Marie, that water you dreamed of is surely the Living Water of which Jesus spoke to the woman at the well.  I have seen this same water many times in my own dreams.  In one dream, I was with the water forever...

[jbertonbounds]

Hey Eaglesway,
:thumbsup: :iagree:

[jbertonbounds]

Marie Glen,
What is your interpretation of that dream?