tartaros, deepest darkness, chains of

[marie glen]

I believe there is some metaphor in the Bible -  chains of darkness -- souls under the altar, Rev, the 5th seal -- and perhaps a couple others, including the parable of lazarus and the rich man..

But the one I want to mention is:

2 Peter 2:4

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell (Greek="Tartaros") and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Again, in the New Testament we come to the Greek idea of "hades", "place of the dead" - Tartaros, "the deepest abyss of hades"...

Surely, and I am convinced, the "place of the dead" is still Sheol - the grave. "There is no thought nor doing in the grave whither thou goest" Ecclesiastes 9:10? paraphrased.

The angels which sinned (and left their 1st place, Jude 6) are in chains of deepest darkness awaiting judgment... They are in chains, imo, because once becoming imperfect, they could not, cannot, reverse their course and become perfect, what with having become imperfect.. So they are in chains.. aNd, they are in deep darkness.. We can see acts of deep darkness upon earth, from mere humans.. We know deep darkness therefor exists. (The bottomless pit of Rev ch 9,vs2?)

Nope, I do not believe 'tartaros" is a deep level of 'hell'. Actually, anyone can be in chains of darkness.. Some would even nickname such a state 'hell'... But a torturous pit?

Colossians 1:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Colossians 1:20

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

20 And God was pleased
    for him to make peace
by sacrificing his blood
    on the cross,
so that all beings in heaven
    and on earth
would be brought back to God.

And of course, we've read the back of the book. "Behold I make all things new" :smile:

[ded2daworld]

OR it's possible the chains that hold these angels are the deepest darkness :Chinscratch:. God is light, so "the deepest darkness would not only be where the angels could not see (no light=no visibility) but it would also mean as far away as possible from from God (the source of all true light.

[redhotmagma]

Marie, I think you're on to something there.  Paul speaks of being released from the bondage of corruption.

[marie glen]

OR it's possible the chains that hold these angels are the deepest darkness :Chinscratch:. God is light, so "the deepest darkness would not only be where the angels could not see (no light=no visibility) but it would also mean as far away as possible from from God (the source of all true light.

I think you are right! The darkness is chains! heavy chains.. I'm so happy that into this world which is covered/smothered with lies and untruth, Jesus said "I am come that you may have light"! :smile:

[marie glen]

Marie, I think you're on to something there.  Paul speaks of being released from the bondage of corruption.

"...the bondage of corruption.." Wow, that really does put a whole new light, or deeper light, on the idea and fact of a rescue!  :dsunny:

[WhiteWings]

souls under the altar,

I believe that to be wrong translation.
Manuscripts vary greatly on the size of the bronze altar of sacrifice. Drawings always show steps leading up to that altar. Anyway I'll just post a fragment of what I've been doing in my absence. I think it's at least worth considering.

Seal 5. Martyrs
This seal is about past, present and future. Another not so great translation. The bronze altar in the outer court was huge, really huge. 180+ feet high (manuscript differ greatly 15, 30 or 80 feet). The souls are not underneath the altar but at the base/feet of that altar. The slain souls are murdered and want revenge. They are told to wait a little while like in Matthew 22:1-14. White robes can have several meaning depending on context. In Matthew they are wedding related in Revelation war related. But looking at the complete picture they are much related because the souls are going to be part of Jesus' great army. An army of saints. Saints are brides. But not yet because the souls are told things are not 'full' yet. Meaning more saints must die first. And that obviously mean the time of Jesus hasn't come yet and the unholy trinity is still causing major problems on earth.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

BTW the 30 minutes silence in heaven refers to this also. Daily Temple services were split in morning and afternoon services. During the whole day there was song and music to honor God. Except when the services started. Then it was dead silent. Everyone face on the ground and in deep prayer. At the feet of the altar....