What is grace?

[jabcat]

Since my quote is included I'll respond.

I'm personally not technically saying they're the same.   I believe they're so linked I don't see how you can have one without the other - IMO, they're just wrapped all around each other.  I still liked eaglesway's post in general though, the general sense of it.  He can share his own specific thoughts on it.  :thumbsup: 

[eaglesway]

Thats why I said "nearly" ;o)   Essentially, grace is our salvation, for "By grace are ye saved". That it is through faith in no way diminishes the , as you put it so well, "overarching" relationship of grace being, one might say, the "essence" of all we receive from God.

[Dave Corum]

EXCELLENT thread - there is much wisdom, and yet, I am still somewhat confused.
I don't know why, but I get the impression here that God's unmerited grace is somehow tied to our faith? That can't be right can it? Because then the reciprocal must be no faith, no grace? This would somewhat mirror the hellish hell doctrine, in that "Too bad you never knew the one Name that "saves" pal, into the lake of fire forever, ever and ever some more - and watch out for that brimstone..."
However, if all what you guys wrote applies to the firstfruits; the elect, then I can see that.
Just a thought, but instead of talking about or asking someone if they have been saved, perhaps we should talk/ask:"Have you been found"? Like Jesus's example of the good shepard who seeks the one stray lamb??? :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

I don't see grace as salvation, imo grace is the instrument that brings man to repent, having a changed thinking, then in a position to be drawn then holding to the faith, with the mind of Christ.
Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12  Teaching us

[VineBranch]

Since my quote is included I'll respond.

I'm personally not technically saying they're the same.   I believe they're so linked I don't see how you can have one without the other - IMO, they're just wrapped all around each other.  I still liked eaglesway's post in general though, the general sense of it.  He can share his own specific thoughts on it.  :thumbsup:

Thats why I said "nearly" ;o)   Essentially, grace is our salvation, for "By grace are ye saved". That it is through faith in no way diminishes the , as you put it so well, "overarching" relationship of grace being, one might say, the "essence" of all we receive from God.

A big Right On to both of you.  I think you're right in that they are inextricably linked.  I remember the first time I read the sign 'Jesus Saves', and thought great.  After a while I realized that it was the Father who saved me, by calling me back to Him.  Christ was the bridge back to the Father.  So, I came to realize (my opinion here) that it was the Father who saved me through Christ.  Maybe part of the belief in trinity is based on the two being so closely related that they seem to act as one:  just stating an opinion.

[marie glen]

How interesting! (Gen 6:8), verse 9 tells us Noah "walked with God" - whereas the rest of the world "every thought was continually evil" (wicked, cruel, oppressive, etc(?) I'm thinking because Noah walked with God and was righteous, more or less, humans being not perfect, their walk isn't perfect either, but (and thus) God extended grace, as in undeserved kindness, as Ded pointed out. Undeserved favor is another way of putting it. Also to "walk with God" surely passed some "grace" also in the meaning of the word we understand more fully "in Jesus" the open door, as an enabling.. "To those born again, He gave POWER to become the sons" (children,offspring, now begotten) "of God" (though still not perfect/ed until the [1st] resurrection, and then at the "all things made new" for the rest/2nd resurrection). I guess I've always seen grace as something substantial which flows from God into us, his children. That it is by believing we become aware and we draw near to God through Jesus and his sacrifice, etc, and God, so to speak, rubs off on us.
- I've always felt, and now will have to dig deeper into the words, that "grace" as we understand it (saved by grace) is the same as saying we are saved by being restored to and in ever growing closer proximity to God, source of all goodness. When someone called Jesus "good master" he replied, "why call me good? there is only one good." Therefor salvation is not a thing of works or earning, since the source of goodness is not in our selves, but is in God only. something which is one of the all important things mankind is learning(?).. Along with the fact God is life itself, so wandering away from him is virtually and actually not possible, otherwise would be the 2nd death, which I believe no one, including Cain and line, will end up. (The only 2 recorded as actually "thrown alive into the LOF/2nd death" are not "alive"/living/breathing at all! But are (1)an institution and the other(2)a theory, both of man. Active, given life, so to speak, but not "alive" as in breathing.) God can only be Perfect, so will lose nothing and no one, man nor angel.

[marie glen]

I think I get what Dave was getting at.  Saved from what?  In the ET mindset you get saved from hell.  But thats not really the point.  If there was no hell to be saved from in the first place, then what is saved?   

The answer Dave is death, futility, corruption.  That is what we are saved from.  We are healed of the disease of death."

:iagree: We are rescued from death, and its cause imperfection and all that includes, futility, confusion, and in human history, sometimes far worse.. (Seeing as God is Life, what else could be life, the life force? and also is Perfection, that makes imPerfection the opposite of life. Hence, God really is everything.) :smile:

P.S -- What is "faith"? I've always thought of faith as sort of like a ground wire, through which all the promises are received.. Electricity/salvation is. But to receive it, have it and make use of it (electricity) needs a ground wire..? I don't actually know much about electricity! My way of thinking about it may be way off! Do you need a ground wire for electricity to flow??

[anna274]

Just a few quotes from one of the devotionals that I "kinda" read on a daily basis...

from Daily Open Windows for March 6 by T. Austin-Sparks

The introduction to the book:  "The best that I can hope is that this has just opened a window, and that as you look through it you are seeing one thing --how superior is Jesus Christ to all else!"

Gal 5:1
Christ has truly set us free.  Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.

...The word over the door into true Christianity is the word:  GRACE.  ...Grace is the chief word in the vocabulary of the Christian.  ... The badge of the Christian is the empty tomb.  That is "Life from the dead."  The badge of legalism is a crucifix, "a dead Christ."   ...the chief thing about Christ is resurrection.  It is Life from the dead.  This was something that Paul came to see when it pleased God to reveal His Son in him... alive in his heart.

... So we do not say, "Change your system."  But we do say, "Ask God to reveal His Son in you."  Then the great work of emancipation will begin.

[mplsfitter539]

P.S -- What is "faith"? I've always thought of faith as sort of like a ground wire, through which all the promises are received.. Electricity/salvation is. But to receive it, have it and make use of it (electricity) needs a ground wire..? I don't actually know much about electricity! My way of thinking about it may be way off! Do you need a ground wire for electricity to flow??

A ground wire is to flow back to ground instead of your body. Electricity flows from negative to positive the added ground wire is what keeps you from being electrocuted in the case of a short. It is a sort of safety mechanism and has nothing to do with the flow. But I think I get your point anyway :Peace2: