What is the worst (or stupidest) thing you ever believed?

[ded2daworld]

I'll start it off with eternal torture. How I ever thought that our God of Love could be sadistic, Psychotic and cruel, just shows to me, that if I once believed that while knowing God how easily I could be wrong about many other things.

[VineBranch]

The stupidest thing I ever believed was that, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, God created Adam on the sixth day of creation:  something like a bit before Eve.  I read the passages and just didn't see the truth.

[ded2daworld]

What evidence? ...and it's not stupid to believe the word of God

[VineBranch]

What evidence? ...and it's not stupid to believe the word of God

Scripture says that man was created before there was bush and small plants:  " When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up--for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground-- then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature". (Genesis 2: 5-7  ESV)

We know that vegetation was created on the third day:  " And God said, 'Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.' And it was so.  The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.  And there was evening and there was morning, the third day". (Genesis 1: 11-13 ESV)

By definition if Adam was created before there was vegetaion, he would have had to have been created before the end of the third day.

[misszoolander]

I'll start it off with eternal torture. How I ever thought that our God of Love could be sadistic, Psychotic and cruel, just shows to me, that if I once believed that while knowing God how easily I could be wrong about many other things.

Me too, for me it was believing and accepting that God was a schizophrenic.

[CHB]

I would have to say, "free will". For me to think that I could ever do anything aside from God was just plain stupid. I at one time thought I could save myself by what I did or didn't do, now isn't that the stupidest thing you ever heard?

CHB

[ded2daworld]

ok Vinebranch. IMO, chapter 2 is simply telling what happened in Chap 1 the same way there are several different accounts by the 4 apostles on what went down with Jesus.
Isn't it possible that on the third day the seed for the plants and fruits were put in the ground rather than God sticking numerous full grown trees in the ground. (I'm not saying that's how it happened. I'm just saying the first chapter tells the order of how things happened and the second chapter adds details not mentioned in the first. :Peace2: :Peace2:

[VineBranch]

ok Vinebranch. IMO, chapter 2 is simply telling what happened in Chap 1 the same way there are several different accounts by the 4 apostles on what went down with Jesus.

That's exactly what I believe.  It is actually the way stories were told around that time.  First the time frame, then the details (even some mediaeval narratives have this format).  So in chapter one we see God's plan sketched out, and in chapter two the details are filled in.  When Adam was created would be a detail which chapter two provides.  I see both our posts being the same.

Just because my obsessiveness demands it, Luke wasn't an apostle, he was a doctor who set out to verify the stories he'd heard.

Isn't it possible that on the third day the seed for the plants and fruits were put in the ground rather than God sticking numerous full grown trees in the ground. (I'm not saying that's how it happened. I'm just saying the first chapter tells the order of how things happened and the second chapter adds details not mentioned in the first. :Peace2: :Peace2:

Yes it is, but how would that gainsay the argument that Adam was created before that happened?  Scripture says Adam was created before bush entered the land and before the plants had sprung up.  I'm not sure I see the relevance of whether it was before the tree or before the seed.

[eaglesway]

ok Vinebranch. IMO, chapter 2 is simply telling what happened in Chap 1 the same way there are several different accounts by the 4 apostles on what went down with Jesus.

That's exactly what I believe.  It is actually the way stories were told around that time.  First the time frame, then the details (even some mediaeval narratives have this format).  So in chapter one we see God's plan sketched out, and in chapter two the details are filled in.  When Adam was created would be a detail which chapter two provides.  I see both our posts being the same.

This, IMO, is exactly right. Entire worlds and panoramas have been developed from the idea that these are two separate accounts. But I think this is exactly right.

[Lazarus Short]

Being an ex-atheist, ex-Randian, and ex-Libertarian, I used to believe some things that I now know were just STOOPID!!!  I don't even want to think about it. :doh: :footmouth: :doh:

[VineBranch]

Being an ex-atheist, ex-Randian, and ex-Libertarian, I used to believe some things that I now know were just STOOPID!!!  I don't even want to think about it. :doh: :footmouth: :doh:

I used to think about being stupid, but then I thought I could see further if I stood upright.   :drummer:

[Lazarus Short]

Being an ex-atheist, ex-Randian, and ex-Libertarian, I used to believe some things that I now know were just STOOPID!!!  I don't even want to think about it. :doh: :footmouth: :doh:

I used to think about being stupid, but then I thought I could see further if I stood upright.   :drummer:

What an elder can see sitting down, a youth can't see standing up.  -old Yoruba proverb

[VineBranch]

What an elder can see sitting down, a youth can't see standing up.  -old Yoruba proverb

Thanks Laz, I ain't that elderly yet.  I always knew it, now I gots the proof.

[Illuin]

ok Vinebranch. IMO, chapter 2 is simply telling what happened in Chap 1 the same way there are several different accounts by the 4 apostles on what went down with Jesus.

That's exactly what I believe.  It is actually the way stories were told around that time.  First the time frame, then the details (even some mediaeval narratives have this format).  So in chapter one we see God's plan sketched out, and in chapter two the details are filled in.  When Adam was created would be a detail which chapter two provides.  I see both our posts being the same.

Just because my obsessiveness demands it, Luke wasn't an apostle, he was a doctor who set out to verify the stories he'd heard.

Isn't it possible that on the third day the seed for the plants and fruits were put in the ground rather than God sticking numerous full grown trees in the ground. (I'm not saying that's how it happened. I'm just saying the first chapter tells the order of how things happened and the second chapter adds details not mentioned in the first. :Peace2: :Peace2:

Yes it is, but how would that gainsay the argument that Adam was created before that happened?  Scripture says Adam was created before bush entered the land and before the plants had sprung up.  I'm not sure I see the relevance of whether it was before the tree or before the seed.

ok Vinebranch. IMO, chapter 2 is simply telling what happened in Chap 1 the same way there are several different accounts by the 4 apostles on what went down with Jesus.

That's exactly what I believe.  It is actually the way stories were told around that time.  First the time frame, then the details (even some mediaeval narratives have this format).  So in chapter one we see God's plan sketched out, and in chapter two the details are filled in.  When Adam was created would be a detail which chapter two provides.  I see both our posts being the same.

This, IMO, is exactly right. Entire worlds and panoramas have been developed from the idea that these are two separate accounts. But I think this is exactly right.

I disagree w/eaglesway and VineBranch here.

The Hebrew words that "made" and "formed" are translated from are two different words with two different definitions. The term "made" is translated from Hebrew word #6212, which essentially means "to prepare," and the word "formed" is translated from Hebrew word #3335, which means "to form, fashion, frame."

IMO, God "prepared" every living thing in Genesis 1, but did not actually bring it into physical form until Genesis 2; similar to what dedtodaworld was hinting to.

IMO, "made" and "formed" are two separate and distinct events:

Isaiah 44:2, "Thus saith the LORD that MADE thee, and FORMED thee from the womb..."
Isaiah 45:18, "For thus saith the LORD that CREATED the heavens; God himself that FORMED the earth and made it."

I believe all men (male and female) were "made" inclusive on the 6th Day of creation. Just like all grass and all trees were made on the 3rd Day, and all animals were made on the 5th and 6th days.

The Septuagint says, concerning the end of the 6th day, "And the heavens and earth were finished, and the whole order of them" [Let there be...(Genesis 1:3, 6, 14), Let the...(Genesis 1:9, 11, 20, 24), Let them...(Genesis 1:15), Let us...(Genesis 1:26)]. In other words, God set everything in order in the first 6 days of creation.

But God had not "formed" any living thing until Genesis 2:7, wherein the text reads that he "formed the man" (Adam) and "the man" became a living soul. Notice that Genesis 1:26 does not read "Let us make the man..." (singular, as it is used in Genesis 2:7 when God formed Adam), it reads "Let us make man..." (plural).



Scripture shows us that things can be 'MADE' without being 'FORMED.' Notice this distinction:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God MADE the heaven and the earth."


And then, in the very next verse, it states,

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was WITHOUT FORM"

This demonstrates that something can be MADE without being FORMED yet.


Before the forming of Adam at Genesis 2:7, we have this verse:

Genesis 2:4-5, "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field BEFORE it was in the earth [before it was formed], and every herb of the field BEFORE it grew [before it was formed], for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."

Why was there not a man to till the ground? IMO, because no man was yet FORMED.

During the 6 day creation, God "MADE" the plants and herbs, but he had not yet "FORMED" them. He had "MADE" the seeds of them (Genesis 1:11-12) but they were not yet "FORMED" on the earth. He had "MADE" man, male and female (Genesis 1:26-27), but "the FIRST MAN" (Adam) was not yet "FORMED," and had not yet received the breath of life from God ("not a man to till the ground"). That occurs at Genesis 2:6.

During the account of the 6 day creation, all of the animals were "MADE" (Genesis 1:20-25), before man (male and female) was "MADE" (Genesis 1:26-27). But when we come to the "FORMING" of them, we see that, at Genesis 2:7, Adam was "FORMED" before the animals, then, at Genesis 2:19, the animals were "FORMED." Then, at Genesis 2:20, Adam named the animals. And lastly, at Genesis 1:22, Eve was "FORMED" from Adam.

The sequence of "MAKING" the animals and man (male and female) does not follow the sequence of the "FORMING" of them, and therefore "MAKING" and "FORMING" were not the same.



This also aligns with the "spiritual" lesson we derive from the fact that God decreed that "6" is the symbol of mankind, who was created on Day 6 along with all the other beasts of the earth.

Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of MAN; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

Ecclesiastes 3:18 "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts."

Just my  :2c:

[eaglesway]

I think thats a lot of semantics.

[micah7:9]

I consider it an excellent offering! :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
And for me anyway, the word "semantics" becomes boring when semantics is the only combatant for disagreement. At least that is my opinion. Sorry EW but you use it a lot, no offence intended.  :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

I think thats a lot of semantics.

Not at all!  Every word, every letter in the Biblical text was put there with infinite care.  What is said is important, the order in which it is said is important, and even what is NOT said is important.

[Illuin]

I think thats a lot of semantics.

IMO, it is semantics when, even though the Scriptures clearly say....

Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."

.... we still insist on using our own reasoning (and semantics) to say that man was not created as the Scriptures say he was (on the 6th day), but instead was created on the 3rd day instead.  :Whistle:

Why don't we just say that the day God rested from His work, paralleled in Old Covenant by the 7th Day Sabbath, was actually the 4th day, rather than the 7th?  :laughing7:


Notice also,

Genesis 2:1-3, "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and the whole order of them. And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, and he ceased on the seventh day from all his works which he made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it, because in it he ceased from all his works which God BEGAN to do.


God only ceased from his works that he "made." The passage above says God ceased from his works that He "began to do."


It should also be noted that in Genesis 2:9, it says "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree..." However, the Hebrew word for "made" does not appear in this verse, because "made" here was added by the translators. The phrase "made the LORD" is actually translated from Hebrew word #3068, which is translated "LORD" in the Scriptures. The words "made the" were inserted before the word "LORD", but Hebrew word #6213, "made," does not exist in this verse. No biggie, but something worth noting.

The trees and plants were literally formed at this point. This is verified in the previous verse, where it says:

Genesis 2:8, "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."

If God did not form a garden, it would not be possible to place Adam, who was formed at this point, in a non-existent garden. It wouldn't make any sense, and it doesn't........ IMO  :winkgrin:

[eaglesway]

Thats a fancy dance around the fact that God spoke to Adam and Eve on the sixth day, "

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
(Gen 1:28-31)

He was speaking to an idea of Adam in His mind about an idea of creation He had been thinking about but hadn t yet done I guess  :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

"He was speaking to an idea of Adam in His mind about an idea of creation He had been thinking about but hadn t yet done I guess  "

That don't even sound grabable. (Don't know if that's a word but it means get a holt of.) I did not get a holt of it.

[eaglesway]

 I was indulging in ludicrosity

[Illuin]

Thats a fancy dance around the fact that God spoke to Adam and Eve on the sixth day, "

The SIXTH DAY. Exactly! Not the third day. :doh:

You didn't actually "read" my post, did you EW?  :Chinscratch:

[eaglesway]

yup, I did. If you followd mine you would know have been saying the sixth day all along.

Chapter two just gives the details of chaptr one for clarification. It is not a separate account.

Isnt that what you were saying VB?

[Illuin]

yup, I did. If you followd mine you would know have been saying the sixth day all along.

Chapter two just gives the details of chaptr one for clarification. It is not a separate account.

Isnt that what you were saying VB?

I'm sorry EW. Forgive me. I thought you agreed with VineBranch with regard to man being created before the end of the 3rd day. That was careless on my part, and I apologize. That was the whole point of the spiritual parallel I mentioned at the end of my post:

i.e. -

Revelation 13:18: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN, and his number is 666."

THE BEAST is MAN.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 "I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves ARE BEASTS."



It is the number of a MAN, and the number that represents MAN in the Scriptures is the number 6.

• Man was created on the 6th day
  6 days for MAN to labor
  MAN could sow the land 6 years, but the seventh belonged to the Lord

  Goliath; who defied the Lord's army, was 6 cubits tall. His spearhead weighed 600 shekels of iron.
  Nebuchadnezzar's great image, set up in the plain of Dura, was 60 by 6 cubits.
  Man is buried 6 feet under (just kidding) :laughing7:

The dimensions of Nebuchadnezzar's great image was 10 times the height of Goliath; and with the passage of time, the dimensions "increase" another ten times when we get to Revelation 13:18 because:

2 Timothy 3:13 "But evil MEN and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."

Well, anyway. Sorry about that EW.

[shawn]

While it might be fun to debate minutia, it really serves no purpose.