UR and "church"

[ded2daworld]

If You are UR and all the "churches" around are either cults or ED (which some of us consider a cult anyways) should you attend?
The bible says NOT to forsake the gathering together of yourselves with other believers.
I'm leaving the choice of attending "church" or not up to you.
I'm also putting "church" in parenthesis because the real church is not a building but the ekklesia - the called out ones- scattered over the face of the earth. BUT, if God moves you to go to a building where other believers gather (even if they are ET) which kind of church should you attend?
If there is no UR gathering locally, is there an alternative? I admit I'm biased but please consider a Calvary Chapel - they are nationwide.
First and most important, they preach verse by verse through the entire Bible. Rarely is there a topical sermon (usually when a major holiday is near and then it concerns the holiday) because of this, hell is rarely mentioned other than when it appears in the New King James which is the Bible they use.
Second, they never ask for money or "pass the hat" - at least not in the 4 or 5 different ones that I've neen to.  Tithing  is not a requirement but it is a blessing.
They never preach hellfire and damnation and never use threats about "You must do this or else" - it's more of Jesus loves you, wants to regenerate you, live inside you. be your helper/companion, release you from bondage, etc. - All the real "good news"

[Lonely Summer]

A friend of mine used to go to Calvary Chapel, I went to a few concerts they hosted. I didn't care for their style of preaching. A lot of "end of the world is coming so get right" stuff. Maybe other Calvary Chapel's aren't like that. I never cared for the approach of 'scare them into believing', which is one reason I came to this site.

[misszoolander]

I go to a Pentecostal church, pretty modern and young.

I find that many times I have been there I have felt the Holy Spirit, I do not believe that UR should isolate us from our brothers and sisters in Christ, Jesus can show himself anywhere. I find church invaluable for worship, nothing beats singing with all your heart and soul to God, I wish I was a better singer  :laughing7: but I know that it's the thought that counts with God.  :dsunny:

My church does not know that I believe Christ saves all, I am unsure if I should tell them, this something I need to pray about.

I mainly go to church to worship God, and to praise him with my fellow believers.

[ded2daworld]

Lonely Summer -
I dislike "end times" stuff being preached simply because no one - no one knows whether it's the next minute or a thousand years away. I get knocked for that but who would have believed 1965 years ago they were expecting Jesus to return at any minute. Anyway, Calvary Chapels are supposed to be teaching expository verse by verse from Genesis to Revelation. I skipped the last 12 weeks of church for the simple fact that they were in Revelation and I don't care to hear even one more "opinion on what something means" from that book. God is not helpless. If he wanted to make something clear to us he did. So, I'm sorry the Calvary Chapel was either not doing what it is supposed to be doing or they just happened to be in revelation. :Peace2:

[Rhodes]

God put me in a job back in May 2012. I wondered why I was there, maybe I would be able to share Jesus with them? No! Wrong! He said, "I have put you there to learn from them."
None of the workers are believers.
I was led to leave the pentecostal 4 Square church we were in, in Sep 2010. Since then the truths of UR have been brought to my heart. I have had only a few opportunities to share any of it with old friends. Now we dont have any friends at all who are Christians because they have branded us with the heretic tag. No problem there, I totally understand.

The manager at work is my pastor now...he is such an amazing people person...does not know a single scripture...but I know that God has made him my pastor.
There is not a pastor in the churches I have been in over the last 24 years  who has challenged me more to  love the unloveable and to be transparent and ask for help ..etc etc..all the things that no pastor has ever loved me enoughto tell me. This guy , leads by example..and he shares his weaknesses with me when they are evident and uses them to teach me truths of human kind.
You will find that believing in UR will lead you way out of religion altogether!! God sees all people as His very own...all are His temple. All have his light in them...even though they do not know it!! God works throughall ...but our religious pride stops us from seeing this.
We have to lose the"US and Them" rubbish. God does not see any us and them..He only sees one new man -Christ in you.
The day we lose that, we see every one according to the spirit and not according to the flesh...the we relax and lose our religion.
Meetings? Fellowship?
If we humble ourself we will see that Christ is in all and we fellowship with Christ in them probably more sothan with so called Christians...BUT only if we humble ourself.
Scarey? Yeah , the separated carnal mindset loves to camp in rituals and meetings and churches. They have there place along the way....but you will not be brought to maturity through them.
my two bobs worth.

[sheila]

......and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices....

       YOU are not far from the KINGDOM OF GOD

[lomarah]

Awesome Rhodes!!! My experience is the same.  :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

The bible says NOT to forsake the gathering together of yourselves with other believers.
...the real church is not a building but the ekklesia - the called out ones- scattered over the face of the earth.

"The gathering together of yourselves with other believers."  Is that not what we do here on Tentmaker?  Further, are we not called out, being as we are, scattered over the face of the earth?

[ded2daworld]

That's what I thought - i forgot the IMO :laughing7:

[bushy]

Rhodes, that was super. Thanks for taking the time to share that.

[VineBranch]

A friend of mine used to go to Calvary Chapel, I went to a few concerts they hosted. I didn't care for their style of preaching. A lot of "end of the world is coming so get right" stuff. Maybe other Calvary Chapel's aren't like that. I never cared for the approach of 'scare them into believing', which is one reason I came to this site.

I agree,  we don't want to scare them into believing and the 'church' seems to be doing its darndest to scare them into not believing.

[Lazarus Short]

A friend of mine used to go to Calvary Chapel, I went to a few concerts they hosted. I didn't care for their style of preaching. A lot of "end of the world is coming so get right" stuff. Maybe other Calvary Chapel's aren't like that. I never cared for the approach of 'scare them into believing', which is one reason I came to this site.

I agree,  we don't want to scare them into believing and the 'church' seems to be doing its darndest to scare them into not believing.

You think?  :doh:

[reFORMer]

The real God is not just in me, He is in others as well.  If you listen to so many preachers in steeple houses and in the media you'll find they speak copiously of each of us alone with God, of our own individual and "personal" salvation, the things pertaining to it and being victorious in our isolated walk with God.  There is almost nothing of the bride, the body of Christ.  Though rarely, this corporate God is maybe mentioned as abstract doctrine, but not as testified experience.  Long passages of time do not repair this flaw.  Impossible as it seems, it continues unquestioned that the Pastor's job is to be led and we are to follow him.  He's the minister and we enable his ministry.  Will we recognize what happens because we do not self-consciously minister one to another?  There is no function of "we," as parts of Christ's body together.  Instead of extensions of the kingdom of God, we're on some bureaucratic tier where men rule over other men.  We must recognize the fulness of Christ is our aim, both corporately and individually; yet, the church is never on the program.  She is not even missed.  Who benefits by keeping things this way?

Have you noticed that when we are admonished to put on the whole armor of God He is speaking to a plurality of believers, the local church ("Put YE [plural] on the whole armor of God...,") not as something each of us is individually to do?  The structure of gentile authority keeps individuals organically separated by being united only through their imagining of the bureaucracy and our places in it, which is a psychical, that is, a soulical integration from fleshly, not spiritual identities.  Only through the Spirit functioning as head in direct intimacy with with us, His many-membered body, can we experience the oneness and fellowship together with each other and God that is native to this new creation man.  We, His temple, are meant to be local and visible, the flesh of God in the earth (Ep 5³⁰)

Our fellowships are to be extensions of the kingdom of God taking over in our locale.  How can this be accomplished without our awareness of who and what we corporately are in Christ?  We cannot continue as children scattering in every direction in search of some man to be our spiritual leader, providing us with all the answers and giving us the true interpretation of scripture, what God really meant to say.  We are to, "...not forsake staying on top of the all together leading of ourselves..." (Hb 10²⁵,) to corporately bear the image of God such that others in touching us touch Him.

[MacPherson]

Lonely Summer -
I dislike "end times" stuff being preached simply because no one - no one knows whether it's the next minute or a thousand years away. I get knocked for that but who would have believed 1965 years ago they were expecting Jesus to return at any minute. Anyway, Calvary Chapels are supposed to be teaching expository verse by verse from Genesis to Revelation. I skipped the last 12 weeks of church for the simple fact that they were in Revelation and I don't care to hear even one more "opinion on what something means" from that book. God is not helpless. If he wanted to make something clear to us he did. So, I'm sorry the Calvary Chapel was either not doing what it is supposed to be doing or they just happened to be in revelation. :Peace2:

There's way too much obsession with the end times. Millions of people have had their personal end time in all the time I've heard about being in the end times i.e. they died. Millions as well have suffered horrific tribulation of one type or another in all the time I've heard of the great tribulation.

The End Times... God is comin' to getcha any minute so you better watch out! You better not pout, you better not cry, I'm telling you why... Jesus is on His way to getcha any minute now!

Along with the heresy of UR, I also harbor the heresy of of preterism i.e. I think most everything talked about in Revelation was about what happened to Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Yet, somehow I manage to cling to Christ and seek righteousness through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, without needing to be scared of End Times and Eternal Torment.

I could have an cerebral aneurism while typing this... That would be the end times for me.

My older brother claims that one of the main reasons why he left Christianity, was because he had been so convinced that he was in the end times, he never planned for his future properly. What was the point in trying get a university degree, when the end times were going to come before he even had a chance to graduate?

http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism-70ad.gif

[MacPherson]

I go to a Pentecostal church, pretty modern and young.

I find that many times I have been there I have felt the Holy Spirit, I do not believe that UR should isolate us from our brothers and sisters in Christ, Jesus can show himself anywhere. I find church invaluable for worship, nothing beats singing with all your heart and soul to God, I wish I was a better singer  :laughing7: but I know that it's the thought that counts with God.  :dsunny:

My church does not know that I believe Christ saves all, I am unsure if I should tell them, this something I need to pray about.

I mainly go to church to worship God, and to praise him with my fellow believers.

I've attended a fellowship for the last four years that has a standard mainstream orthodox teacher. As a good and grounded teacher, rather than a pulpit ponder, he wouldn't flip out if I boldly declared I was UR. He knows a lot, if not all, about UR. He even brings it up from time to time, saying things while teaching like, "now the way a universalist would interpret this verse is..." He would just tell me he thought I was in error regarding that particular theology and to continue to pray about it and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He sticks to his guns about what he teaches, but he doesn't insist everyone agree with him on everything. He knows where my heart is as a disciple of Christ. That's what matters the most to him and me, discipleship to Jesus Christ. That's always the main focus; Jesus. And we both believe in hell. I just see it as something else. The fact is still that we live in a lost world and people are dying unrepentant in their sins and that's heartbreaking, UR or not.

Now if I were to start disrupting the fellowship, as if trying to start some kind of 'truth revolution' and proclaiming "Tommy is teaching you all false doctrine!"... that of course would be a problem.

Like you, I mainly go to church to worship God, and to praise him with my fellow believers.

[micah7:9]

I have tried to go back to "churches," and be part of the services(ceremonies) but when there, I am not led to enter in. I sit and pray that a fuller truth will be given and thank the Lord that the Name of Jesus is lifted up, yet there is also an empty heart when sermons are given that deny the very Bible they preach from.
I have to say (IMO)... but I do not see how there can be worship(what is called praise) in Spirit and Truth, when there is no UNITY of SPIRIT.  Should I be led to offer what has been given me as truth (and I have) the offering finds indignation.
2Co 6:17  wherefore, come ye forth out of the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and an unclean thing do not touch, and I--I will receive you,
Ah but it is just my opinion. :sigh: :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[VineBranch]

I have tried to go back to "churches," and be part of the services(ceremonies) but when there, I am not led to enter in. I sit and pray that a fuller truth will be given and thank the Lord that the Name of Jesus is lifted up, yet there is also an empty heart when sermons are given that deny the very Bible they preach from.
I have to say (IMO)... but I do not see how there can be worship(what is called praise) in Spirit and Truth, when there is no UNITY of SPIRIT.  Should I be led to offer what has been given me as truth (and I have) the offering finds indignation.
2Co 6:17  wherefore, come ye forth out of the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and an unclean thing do not touch, and I--I will receive you,
Ah but it is just my opinion. :sigh: :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

I've tried a few times now to 'find' a church.  The last two or three times I tried to go into the buildings I've actually felt like I was going to throw up.  Sorry for the graphic, it's just the revulsion is so visceral.

[jabcat]

I go to a Pentecostal church, pretty modern and young.

I find that many times I have been there I have felt the Holy Spirit, I do not believe that UR should isolate us from our brothers and sisters in Christ, Jesus can show himself anywhere.
I mainly go to church to worship God, and to praise him with my fellow believers.

I've attended a fellowship for the last four years that has a standard mainstream orthodox teacher. As a good and grounded teacher, rather than a pulpit ponder, he wouldn't flip out if I boldly declared I was UR. ..... He knows where my heart is as a disciple of Christ. That's what matters the most to him and me, discipleship to Jesus Christ. That's always the main focus; Jesus. And we both believe in hell. I just see it as something else. The fact is still that we live in a lost world and people are dying unrepentant in their sins and that's heartbreaking, UR or not.

Like you, I mainly go to church to worship God, and to praise him with my fellow believers.

Amen, amen!  Awesome posts.

[Colleen]

It's so like God to have this post here for me this morning. Yesterday I was contacted to help out as organist for a church because the current one is looking for a replacement. One of the things I miss most about "going to church" is worship. I used to be able to do it at home in my music room but have barely been able to enter that room for months. I remember a time years ago when I was broken sitting at the organ singing out hymns even though i didn't "feel" like it, with tears running down my face and being blessed.

I haven't attended a church for some time now and am almost frightened to do so. My daughter gets the same feeling of almost vomiting that was mentioned by vine branch. ( sorry on my phone haven't been able to master the posting of previous quotes. ) As for me mine is more that fear I got/ get when first plagues by the false precept of hell, the fear God might strike me dead for disobeying. Anyway I am going this morning to the service to check it out. Red flags are already up because I was informed that the " preacher is on vacation and that a guest speaker is in who is really outstanding. "

The interesting thing is this is my father's church. Dad was Presbyterian and Mom, Catholic. I seldom went to Dad's church except to play in the kids' playroom(which was awesome!) but one time got ahold of that hymnal after I heard "God of our Fathers". I'd close myself in our living room and belt that thing out at the top of my lungs as a child.

So I am going this morning( by the grace of God) and I am worshipping in spirit and in truth? In spite of my circumstances and I pray to be led by the Spirit if I am to continue in this.

Anyway, I appreciate the last two posts indicating one who still attends and one who doesn't. Who knows, I may not be able to go in either. But I have felt the Spirit in church services as well. Any prayers for guidance are much appreciated.

[sheila]

I'll be praying for you,Colleen. :HeartThrob:

[Colleen]

Thank you, Sheila.   :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I'll be praying for you,Colleen. :HeartThrob:

amen.  God have your will, lead Colleen just where you want her..give her your perfect peace.

[CHB]

Hi Colleen,

I have been attending a Church/Independant Baptist, down the road a bit from me and singing. I was asked to do Bible Study this Wednesday night. Haven't decided what I will talk about yet. I have two subjects in mind, "God's love" or the word "forever". If anyone has an Idea about this I would appreciate it. There are many subjects to talk about that one could bring in things that apply to the salvation of all. I have ask myself why I attend this Church? I have ask God why I attend this Church and does he want me to leave but no answer as yet from Him. I have talked to the pastor a little about my beliefs and got no where but every now and then he will say something that relates to UR that lifts my spirit. Maybe I am there to learn something from them like to be more tolorant, have more patience, love for those who don't see things as I do, I don't know?  :dontknow:  I do feel that I wouldn't be there if God didn't want me there for some reason and if he didn't want me there he would take me out.

The way I see things about attending Church is, if you are invited to a Church maybe God wants you to say something at some point in time that will make a difference in someone's life? I don't think choosing one that agrees mostly with us will benifit anyone. If we are suppose to teach or provide answers to others about our beliefs, why try it on someone who will agree with us? Why not go to the one's who desperately need to hear about what Jesus has done for us?

As Roads said, all of the Churches are God's children and they all will be saved, they just don't know it yet. They are in bondage and need help, they just don't realize it. We will probably suffer persecution undoubtedly when we come out of the closet, :winkgrin: but if the homosexuals are brave enough to chance it why can't we?  :dunno2: I believe God is beginning to work with us to speak out, at least I pray that is the case.

God help us all to make the right decision.

CHB

[anna274]

Hi Colleen,

I have been attending a Church/Independant Baptist, down the road a bit from me and singing. I was asked to do Bible Study this Wednesday night. Haven't decided what I will talk about yet. I have two subjects in mind, "God's love" or the word "forever". If anyone has an Idea about this I would appreciate it. There are many subjects to talk about that one could bring in things that apply to the salvation of all. I have ask myself why I attend this Church? I have ask God why I attend this Church and does he want me to leave but no answer as yet from Him. I have talked to the pastor a little about my beliefs and got no where but every now and then he will say something that relates to UR that lifts my spirit. Maybe I am there to learn something from them like to be more tolorant, have more patience, love for those who don't see things as I do, I don't know?  :dontknow:  I do feel that I wouldn't be there if God didn't want me there for some reason and if he didn't want me there he would take me out.

The way I see things about attending Church is, if you are invited to a Church maybe God wants you to say something at some point in time that will make a difference in someone's life? I don't think choosing one that agrees mostly with us will benifit anyone. If we are suppose to teach or provide answers to others about our beliefs, why try it on someone who will agree with us? Why not go to the one's who desperately need to hear about what Jesus has done for us?

As Roads said, all of the Churches are God's children and they all will be saved, they just don't know it yet. They are in bondage and need help, they just don't realize it. We will probably suffer persecution undoubtedly when we come out of the closet, :winkgrin: but if the homosexuals are brave enough to chance it why can't we?  :dunno2: I believe God is beginning to work with us to speak out, at least I pray that is the case.

God help us all to make the right decision.

CHB

Thank you CHB for sharing such truly heartfelt, humble, and hopefilled ideas regarding "attending church"; interacting with nonbelievers; doing a Bible Study...

It seems to me that those ideas would be very helpful in all our conversations. 

also thank you for the Scripture (1 Thess 5:21) that you shared on another thread.  I really need that particular verse... for an ongoing conversation with a nonbeliever.

[rosered]

The bible says NOT to forsake the gathering together of yourselves with other believers.
...the real church is not a building but the ekklesia - the called out ones- scattered over the face of the earth.

"The gathering together of yourselves with other believers."  Is that not what we do here on Tentmaker?  Further, are we not called out, being as we are, scattered over the face of the earth?

I agree with you , we gather  together Bro Laz , 



1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.  

  lots of times  its just a matter of faith  , and Charity   of what you are willing   share with  others