Old Testament vs New

[mplsfitter539]

I would appreciate any help I can get on this subject. When ever I speak with my pre-tribulation brain washed parents they want to argue that everything in the old testament was written only for the Jews and the new testament is for the gentiles. I have done enough research to know that gentiles means nations and Jew means the tribe of Judah. How can I convince them of their grave error?  :Chinscratch:

[ded2daworld]

Though the first covenant was with the Jews, the old testament has a ton of information about people, God, relationships. We are all descended from Adam, and later Noah, so you're reading about your ancestors. The psalms and proverbs are incredible words of comfort, instruction, and psychology. The law is interesting and you can see in them where many of our modern laws came from. The prophets major and minor - what nuggets of gold in them. I can't imagne it making any difference whether it was written solely for the Jews or for all of us. It tells so much about God, who He is, What he's done, How he sees us and wants us to love him. I could go on but my suggestion is to read the old testament, start with Psalms and proverbs and everytime you get a nugget of gold, show your parents and tell them what you got out of it.
If I truly loved someone and found out that they had written a book - I would read it no matter what to find out more about them and to see how they think and the book even tells me how to love the one I love! You can't go wrong.

[Lazarus Short]

No, the OT was not only written only for the Jews, or even for all the tribes of Israel.  It was written with a view to the coming NT, and the gospel going forth to all the peoples of the world, the nations, the gentiles.

How do I know this?  By the author of the OT:  Jesus.  You see, if you plug the very ancient pictographic meanings of the letters into the name of "Yahweh," or Hod He Vav He, aka the tetragrammaton, you get "Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand," or Jesus.  This is proof no one can avoid or deny or sidestep.  How could any Christian refuse to read a book written by Jesus?

[micah7:9]

I agree, Jesus is the beginning, the beginning is Jesus.... Gen.1 "In the beginning," the old(first) testament is but a type and shadow of the new (now) testament. Col 1:16  For by him(Jesus) were all things created.....
My friend, by the Holy Spirit, we are all teachable. Now that's good news :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Alpha versus Omega? Nah :o) For from Him and Through Him and To Him are ALL THINGS.

A rose bush demonstrates the glory of God.

The roots in the ground are the world before the flood, the trunk the Patriarchs from Noah thru Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The branches are the tribes of Israel bearing the thorns of the law that pricked the blood of Christ, and the buds atop the branches being like the prophets, whose testimonies held within them sealed the unfolding of the Rose of Sharon, the Bride of the Lamb, petal after colorful petal unfolding beneath the sun(face of God) and the rain(outpouring of the Spirit). From Matthew to Revelations the glory of Christ is unfolding as the God of the Ages demonstrates the hidden wisdom through the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms- moving towards the age of the "restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets and sages from the foundation of the world."

To me, though I am the very least of all the saints (God's consecrated people), this grace (favor, privilege) was granted and graciously entrusted: to proclaim to the Gentiles the unending (boundless, fathomless, incalculable, and exhaustless) riches of Christ [wealth which no human being could have searched out],
Also to enlighten all men and make plain to them what is the plan [regarding the Gentiles and providing for the salvation of all men] of the mystery kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in [the mind of] God Who created all things by Christ Jesus.
[The purpose is] that THROUGH THE CHURCH(ecclesia, called out ones, holy ones) the complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere.
This is in accordance with the terms of the eternal and timeless purpose which He has realized and carried into effect in [the person of] Christ Jesus our Lord,

(Eph 3:8-11Amplified)

Making known to us the mystery (secret) of His will (of His plan, of His purpose). [And it is this:] In accordance with His good pleasure (His merciful intention) which He had previously purposed and set forth in [c] Him,
[He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in heaven and things on the earth.
In Him we also were made [God's] heritage (portion) and we obtained an inheritance; for we had been foreordained (chosen and appointed beforehand) in accordance with His purpose, Who works out everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His [own] will,

(Eph 1:9-11 Amplified)

[mplsfitter539]

Eagles Way in your post you made reference to the "church". This is another concept which seems to escape most of the churched people that the "church" are the called out and separated ones. Most "Christians" think the church is the building they go to on Sunday mornings. Almost daily I find myself in situations where I am desperately trying to spread the good new that all will be saved each in their own order. This is not good news to most "Christians" who tend to believe that saying a one time magic prayer saved them. They don't want to believe that the worst sinner has the same hope that the least of sinners has. If the good news is like water then the old saying that says you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink really is true. If I can't even share the blessed hope of the salvation of all with my parents then how will I ever share it with anyone? Aren't we supposed to share the good new/blessed hope with our families?

[eaglesway]

Well, first-off, I would say- desperation rarely works. We have to find a place of peace, and a sense of being led by the Holy Spirit, to share from. Also, a prophet is out without honor except in his home town among his own family- we are not always able to break through with our families, they have a built in level of familiarity with us i the flesh that makes it hard for them to see us in the spirit- and hard for us to speak to them in the spirit as well.

As far as the church is concerned, I almost feel like I have to give an entire bible study every time I use the word. The assembly of called out ones, the members of the universal body of Christ, the "ecclesia"- all these expressions of what the church is are so muddled by the religion of modern western churchianity that the word is really almost meaningless and void of spirit.

Yet, I believe in the importance of the local church-as the assembly of believers in any give city or area- and I still believe what God is going to do among the "called out ones" in the last days will fulfill the prophecies of scripture, presenting a Bride without spot wrinkle or blemish unto Christ at His return.

In the meantime, as strangers and aliens on a pilgrimage on foreign shores, we try to represent our king and our Homeland as ambassadors carrying this awesome proclamation of freedom for all. In time, our King will come ashore and we will no longer be just pilgrims......but sons of the living God and priests of the Kingdom :o)

[ded2daworld]

As usual,  - EW -  :thumbsup: :iagree:

[mplsfitter539]

Well, first-off, I would say- desperation rarely works. We have to find a place of peace, and a sense of being led by the Holy Spirit, to share from. Also, a prophet is out without honor except in his home town among his own family- we are not always able to break through with our families, they have a built in level of familiarity with us i the flesh that makes it hard for them to see us in the spirit- and hard for us to speak to them in the spirit as well.

As far as the church is concerned, I almost feel like I have to give an entire bible study every time I use the word. The assembly of called out ones, the members of the universal body of Christ, the "ecclesia"- all these expressions of what the church is are so muddled by the religion of modern western churchianity that the word is really almost meaningless and void of spirit.

Thanks for this because it confirms for me what I suspected in that my family is really the last ones to listen to anything I have to say about their form of Christianity. I was raised to believe the same way they do and now that I have broken free from that trap they think I am damned to hell.

[Lazarus Short]

Thanks for this because it confirms for me what I suspected in that my family is really the last ones to listen to anything I have to say about their form of Christianity. I was raised to believe the same way they do and now that I have broken free from that trap they think I am damned to hell.
[/quote]

Do such people ever stop to question who decides these things, themselves or God? 

[reFORMer]

The Old is the letter.  The entire Bible is letters making words.  These words are not the thing itself.  They are only for calling up the thing within you.  This is what "spelling" is:  conjuring up something by the use of words.  The properly "spelled" words, cast into the soul, there raise up again what is read or said.  The words of scripture in stone and ink occur in the quickly passing realm where our physical nature is.  We build with them what they summon in our soul.  The New Covenant, which is written in our hearts and minds by the Spirit (and through men of God,) replaces the old by being of a superior nature.  It is the Lord Himself as quickening spirit coming out of the heavenlies into us.  Agreement with this ascended Overcomer Son, aligning our souls with His ongoing self revelation, changes us into His image and likeness, eventually to include our bodies born of resurrection.

Jesus had just spoken the parable of the Householder who went away, leaving His vineyard in the care of hired farmers who refused to turn over the profits to those sent to collect, eventually killing the owners son.  Now Jesus says, "Therefore am I saying to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and shall be given to a nation producing its fruits." This was understood by the chief priests and Pharisees.  They "know that He is saying this concerning them." (loc.cit., Mt 21^33-46)

The replacement is not about a religious change, replacing Judaism with Christianity.  It is replacing the Adam Man with the New Man.  It a change of species.  The New Man is the Lord from heaven inhabiting our bodies with us, in union with our spirits quickening us to a new life.  This giving of Himself as Spirit promises our physical bodies also will be changed into a deathless body of glory.  The Adam nature cannot give the fruit of the kingdom.  "For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." (1 Co 15²², CLT)  It is Christ the Seed that will yield a harvest of many sons in glory.

[redhotmagma]

Amen ref :thumbsup:

When there is a change of the priesthood there is a change in the law. Law of sin and death given to the sons of Aaron. This priesthood is based on genealogy aka natural seed. But Jesus is the high priest in the order of Melchizedek born without genealogy. Born from above. Incorruptible seed, the law of life.

I see the OT as like the tokogae. And the new as the tree of life.

[sheila]

Amen! :iagree:   The days are coming,says the Lord,'when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman

and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains,and flow from all

the hills. I will bring back my exiled people Israel,they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.

they will plant vineyards and drink their wine.

  the above scripture is describing the transitioning from the old Adam..to the new man in Christ....the Christ seed

    raising up that which was fallen in old Adam..by seeded Holy spirit being planted...never again to

be uprooted

[eaglesway]

Well, first-off, I would say- desperation rarely works. We have to find a place of peace, and a sense of being led by the Holy Spirit, to share from. Also, a prophet is out without honor except in his home town among his own family- we are not always able to break through with our families, they have a built in level of familiarity with us i the flesh that makes it hard for them to see us in the spirit- and hard for us to speak to them in the spirit as well.

As far as the church is concerned, I almost feel like I have to give an entire bible study every time I use the word. The assembly of called out ones, the members of the universal body of Christ, the "ecclesia"- all these expressions of what the church is are so muddled by the religion of modern western churchianity that the word is really almost meaningless and void of spirit.

Thanks for this because it confirms for me what I suspected in that my family is really the last ones to listen to anything I have to say about their form of Christianity. I was raised to believe the same way they do and now that I have broken free from that trap they think I am damned to hell.

Then you have been counted worthy to share in the rejection of our Lord, and all the followers of Christ from Acts who were counted dead by their Jewish families for proclaiming Christ to be the Messiah, and all those excluded for the sake of the true gospel of Jesus hundreds of generations.

"Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing".