What is "satan"?

[trettep]

willieH: Hi cp... :hithere:

Sorry for taking so long to get this reply to you...  :blush:

Lake of fire is the decond death, is what I read. Any thoughts on how this life is the second death?

cp

It is my opinion that Rev 21:14 is pretty much, universally misunderstood, and then those teach others their misunderstanding... and "voila", here we sit today...  with the LITERAL and carnal understanding of a SYMBOLIC and SPIRITUAL notation...  :wacko2: :prankster:

Well God has taught me otherwise:

Here is how I see it...

Already leaning toward THIS LIFE as the Lake of FIRE, ...I once read J. Preston Eby's view of this verse, and his words coincided with the way I have come to observe Rev 21:14 -- (btw, to my knowledge, Eby doesn't profess that THIS LIFE is the LOF)

Rev 21:14 -- And death and hell [hades] were cast into the Lake of FIRE, this is the 2nd DEATH...

Most observe (because they have been falsely taught) that this "casting" takes place at the END of human history... as I see it, ...it takes place at it's BEGINNING...  :mshock:

The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, is NOT subject to Chronology... JESUS is noted to be the ALPHA and the OMEGA... in other words the END ...IS... the BEGINNING...

JESUS ...IS... simulataneously the END and the BEGINNING...

Eby noted the following example, about how the facts of a sentence can be rearranged in chronology, and NOT change the meaning:

(1)  An ISLAND is a body of LAND, surrounded by WATER...
(2)  A body of LAND surrounded by WATER, is an ISLAND...

Let us do this with Rev 21:14:

(1)  Rev 21:14  and Death and hell [hades] were cast into the Lake of FIRE, this is the 2nd Death...

REVERSING the FACTS:

(2)  Rev 21:14  This is the 2nd Death -- Death and hell [hades] were cast into the Lake of FIRE...

I have NOT removed or added anything... but the reversal of the facts gives affords a different perspective... If you "re-reverse" them, you will continue to have that NEW perspective of this verse...

The 2nd DEATH is the death of SINFUL Flesh (vessel of DISHONOR), which is brought into being by the state of man which is "DEAD" in the SPIRIT, and accordingly DISOBEYS the COMMAND of GOD which brings forth SIN and produces the 2nd Death...

JESUS noted LIVING and breathing men, as DEAD -- Matt 8:22 -- these were men which were NOT FOLLOWING Him... for He had just instructed the "scribe" to follow Him... leaving those who were "dead" to bury their "dead"...

...willieH  :happygrin:

So I have a question for you about this. If the second death (LOF) is death and hades being thrown into the LOF, then why are those part of the 1st resurrection not hurt of it?

Would anyone be hurt of death and hades being thrown into the LOF, regardless of the resurrection they were part of?

I am following your thinking here, but it seems to me to make the statement about not being hurt of the second death for those in the first resurrection redundant. Have I missed something?

I believe that those that don't get "hurt" of the second death are those that are because they are the FLAMES of the fire.  I'm one of those that believe the law exist though.  So that when I see Jesus calling His Apostles stones, I don't just see them as the stones of the Temple but they are also the Stones that get cast at sinners.  So I believe that Jesus is stoning all of us sinners (casting the Apostles at us).  These flames (those of the first resurrection) are those that are going to be instrumental in burning away our evil works. 

Paul

[claypot]

So, if Satan is the carnal mind,
what were the demons that Jesus drove into the swine, who then drowned?

"satan" is a Hebrew word that indicates ADVERSARY or ADVERSITY... It is no more a "being" than are the English words I just wrote...

It IS a principality which is invested in the fleshly influenced mind of men, and which prompts temptation -- James 1:14

As far as the pigs are concerned... ADVERSITY is found Naturally at work within the animal kingdom and is relevant to MAN as evidenced by humans being attacked by bears, lions, sharks, etc... let alone within their own communities and species...

Men are attacked by animals because they can sense FEAR... there are unseen ADVERSE powers negatively at work between man and the creation over which he once had dominion...

As JESUS demanded these adversities to leave the "demoniac"... the adversities became relevant in the pigs... at the power of CHRIST... which only displayed that adversity within us that drives us to our death, will drive another creature to its death as well...

Animals are capable of doing erratic things without prompting... Watch a cat or dog chases its tail...  :laughing7:

...willieH  :grin:

Greetings,

this is all good and well, but when  teaching these things and one asks how did these adversities speak, what would you say?

Mar 5:9 Then He asked him, "What [is] your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name [is] Legion; for we are many." 

thanks
euty

I would also say that many things are personified in Gods world so personifying the way our carnal thougths are expreseed in this manner is no surprise to me.

I mean who is this wisdom character who walks around crying in the streets?

cp

[Beloved Servant]

Ya lost me there CP
wisdom character? you me Jesus?

[Beloved Servant]

Yea, and I don't know CP.
The scripts don't imply personification of the swine.
That seems more of a reflex than a suicide.

[claypot]

Yea, and I don't know CP.
The scripts don't imply personification of the swine.
That seems more of a reflex than a suicide.

I'm kind of thinking it's not personifying the swine as it is a personification of how depraved a carnal mind can become. I am legion. I'm not saying the pigs are a talking, I'm saying this is an outward manifestation on an inward reality.

Hmmmmmmm. Just thinking out loud.

cp

[Beloved Servant]

I am legion = they are one.
Yea, I get that.

[Cardinal]

I mean who is this wisdom character who walks around crying in the streets? cp

:cloud9: Mother/sister.......which is why Song of Solomon makes a reference to "my sister (Christ's), my spouse (helpmeet of Father)". Wisdom, she was there before the foundation of the world. Pull up everything on wisdom, to start. And then get ready for an earthquake and a new can of "worms" to be opened.  :laughing7: Blessings.....

[madmatan]

I saw john 12:47 posted earlier.  I feel posting the verse by its self leaves the verse without a context. And the message and be miss interpreted. This is still a segment and should be read in the entirety of the book of John. 

John12:47-50
47 "If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.

[ded2daworld]

Welcome madmatan,
Thank you for sharing in our discussion forum. :Peace2:

[micah7:9]

After reading this post going back in time to 2009 I sure do miss WillieH and now Whitewings. :bsad: