Origins of Hell

[Jeremias]

When I first became a member here... I posted a similar topic but it got erased by the forum crash a few months ago.

I am looking for some good info on the origins of the hell idea and how it got it's way into the church.  I am looking for a few good essays/articles where people are tying it all together up to modern times.  Egyptian, Zoroastrianism... how did Virgil and Dante influence the Latin fathers... why is it that Sheol means "the unseen, the grave" but the Latin fathers and KJV wrote down Dante's concept, "Hell".

I have these links: 

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/etpunish.html
http://www.godsplanforall.com/paganoriginofhell

This one doesn't work anymore but i think it was really good:  http://www.godsplanforall.com/paganoriginofhell

I want to be able to clearly trace its origins and then explain how it got into our Bibles.  When I researched it on my own, before ever coming here... the facts really helped cement it in my brain.  It is a traceable, documentable, historic fact!! 

I believe people have a hard time with "everyone is eventually saved and makes it to heaven".  BUT, the vast majority of people, especially believers who are coming out of legalism and the religious mindset and seeing the FW of Christ and the Evangel of Paul, DO NOT WANT HELL TO BE TRUE (deep in the hearts).  Giving them FACTS really helps!

If you can come to a place where you understand the facts of history and realize, Dante's Hell, the Egyptian Hell, is in fact a MYTH,  then you naturally ask... "so what happens to those who don't believe?".  And then after having your open mind blown about hell... the Holy Spirit begins to reveal to you a Father whose Love is REALLY and TRULY UNFAILING!!  And then the facts of UR in the early church Fathers, Origen, Clement, the Gregory's (Nyssa and Nicea?) and of course the writings of Paul confirm the truth!

Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.  I am preparing myself for what I believe the Spirit is speaking to me.  "Get ready!"

Love for you all!

[gasman]

Sure. Here is a start.

http://www.remnantbiblestudies.com/article2_sin_and_evil.html

The site also covers all of the teachings of hell and is currently doing a series on the Lake of Fire. Stuff that has rarely seen the light of day.

http://remnantbiblestudies.com/ 

Alot of reading mind you. Hope you are in a studious frame of mind first.

[eaglesway]

www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com

[Jeremias]

In the Latin Vulgate, sheol in the OT and hades in the NT are translated as a form of infernum or infernum itself.  We need some history of the meaning of infernum.  To Latin speakers/readers of 350ad, did infernum mean "grave" or did it mean "place of never ending punishment by fire"?  I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it is something more like the latter.  :lol:  Which basically means the Latin fathers translated through their cultural bias mistakingly thinking the Jewish idea (as represented in the OT) of the afterlife "unseen, grave, (unknown?)" was the same as their idea of the afterlife. Or is that to big of a jump?  I need to refresh my memory on the history of St. Jerome.

Interesting that gehenna and tartarus are translated as proper names (as they should always have been).

How and why then did the KJV suddenly translate all these words , sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell"?

Is there any documentation anywhere that shows bible translations or transcripts before 1611 moving toward this error?  I wonder how the Textus Receptus treats these words?

[eaglesway]

Infernum was the place of the punishment of souls in the Roman mythology, ruled by the god Pluto, just as Hades was the place of the souls of the dead in the Greek mythology, ruled by the god Hades, and Hel was the place of the dead in Norse mythology, ruled by the goddess Hel.


more details available at www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com

[BigE]

As described above with sheol & hades meaning the grave, in Old English "hell" (derived from the name of the Scandinavian goddess "HEL" had the same basic meaning that is: "to hide" or "to cover" and this is how the meaning that the translators of the Authorized Version (KJV) had in mind, rather than the conception of hell as a place of eternal torment that is now believed in by Christendom (with variation).

It is also interesting to note that the Old English word "helling" is derived from the same word as "hell". Farmers in England in the 1500's would dig up the soil, plant the potato in the hole they had dug, cover over the (seed) potato with the soil they had dug up, the process was called "helling"= "to cover, to hide". So, when a man died, the same basic process was the same, dig up the soil, put the corpse in and it was called "helling".

[micah7:9]

There is no "place" of torture and torment where souls are to remain as punishment for disobedience.
My question would be, why are you on this site, a site that has proven through the Word of God, that the "hell" you ask about is known to be a theological and religious myth of fear which is opposite of love? :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[ded2daworld]

Micah, IMO, you misunderstood Jeremias. He wasn't saying that he believed in hell. He wanted facts that prove hell is a myth because, like my wife, ET christians think it's UNFAIR for God to save EVERYONE and that it is the major stumbling block to ET'ers becoming UR'ers. That's why he wants facts to show that "Hell" as it is known today was totally unheard of for hundreds of years AFTER the New Testament was completed.

[micah7:9]

Micah, IMO, you misunderstood Jeremias. He wasn't saying that he believed in hell. He wanted facts that prove hell is a myth because, like my wife, ET christians think it's UNFAIR for God to save EVERYONE and that it is the major stumbling block to ET'ers becoming UR'ers. That's why he wants facts to show that "Hell" as it is known today was totally unheard of for hundreds of years AFTER the New Testament was completed.

I do understand :HeartThrob: "....ET christians think it's UNFAIR for God to save EVERYONE ..."
That's part of it, "they think and buy into the myth," rather than what the BIBLE says and teaches about the subject. It's like the "media news" just because the media puts out what they "want" the news to be does not make it TRUE. When we go to trying to find a truth in religion and theology verses the Word of God (Bible) it's apples and oranges.
The false teaching of a "hell of everlasting torment" is a unsound doctrine to cause fear, God is about Love. People buy into beliefs that satisfy there human emotions, they shrug off the Truth because it doesn't fit those emotions of human common sense. IF this "hell of everlasting torment" were the sentence for sin, the Lord God failed to inform the first sinner(Adam) but the Lord God had told Adam the sentence and punishment --dying thou dost die.'
Heck religion and theology tell people that when they die, they at that expiration, go to either heaven or "hell." And guess what... they all buy, believe it, and pass on that false information.
You won't find the "facts" of "hell" in the Bible, go to church and religions history.

[ded2daworld]

I'm with you Micah, perfect Love casts out all fear.
Throughout the new testament does Jesus tell others, "Be afraid, be very afraid"  OR "Don't be afraid"?
So why do hellfire and damnation preachers tell us the good news is, "Be afraid. Be very afraid"? (This slogan was made popular and parodied in many hollyweird movies.

[micah7:9]

I'm with you Micah, perfect Love casts out all fear.
Throughout the new testament does Jesus tell others, "Be afraid, be very afraid"  OR "Don't be afraid"?
So why do hellfire and damnation preachers tell us the good news is, "Be afraid. Be very afraid"? (This slogan was made popular and parodied in many hollyweird movies.

Why? The church today, religions, theology whether in the classroom, pulpit, TV, or radio ALL base their foundation of preaching and teaching on the HUMAN EMOTION. I will not mention any names but there is an "old time" Pentecostal TV evangelist who tells emotional "christian" stories with tears and has for many years and he is doing rather well.

[eaglesway]

I think there are things to be "wary" of, "concerned about", "awed by", "revered". I am not sure fear is a successful motivator except perhaps, to run out of a burning building, which we are often doing in our lives if we ignore the Lord :o)

[micah7:9]

If this is not a story of fear than I don't know what is, this evangelist: says I hate to say this true but sadly it is, (paraphrased) There was a man who was a drunk beat his wife and kids and on his deathbed accepted Jesus Christ, he would go to heaven, On the other hand another man who lived good and gave to charity, took care of his family, but he stole food for his family, one time... but he didn't know/confess Jesus Christ, I'm sorry to say, that man will spend eternity in hell's torment.
Now that's not " "wary" of, "concerned about", "awed by", "revered". That's teaching fear.

[sheila]

they make void God's perfect justice by putting forth their own perversions....

   God's justice...all men were bound togather in sin/died..all men will receive free gift of life in Christ

   as we all have bore the image of the corruptible,so,too,we shall all bear the image of the incorruptible one.

  the spirits of just men made perfect know this...let he who is without sin cast the first stone

[eaglesway]

If this is not a story of fear than I don't know what is, this evangelist: says I hate to say this true but sadly it is, (paraphrased) There was a man who was a drunk beat his wife and kids and on his deathbed accepted Jesus Christ, he would go to heaven, On the other hand another man who lived good and gave to charity, took care of his family, but he stole food for his family, one time... but he didn't know/confess Jesus Christ, I'm sorry to say, that man will spend eternity in hell's torment.
Now that's not " "wary" of, "concerned about", "awed by", "revered". That's teaching fear.

Sure is.

[sheila]

Psalms 73 for I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles,their body

  is healthy and strong.They are free from the burdens common to man[like hunger/starvation of family]

  stealing was not a sin unto death..even under the lawProverbs 6;30  men do not despise a theif

  when he steals to satisfy his hunger when he is starving.yet if he is caught he must pay sevenfold

   even if it costs him all the wealth of his house.   Back in Isreal's day gleaning of field for hungry

  and poor available.

;9  their mouths lay claim to heaven and their tongues take possession of the earth    'They say,how

can God know? Does the Most High have knowledge?


   that one man condemned would have not been worthy of being put to death for it..even under the law

  let alone under grace.

  shows their ignorance and carnal understanding in regard to speaking of things they do not understand

and perverting things they think they do.

[reFORMer]

Considering the origins of "hell" should include philosophic and psychological reasons as well.

At a very young age I accepted it in a way something like what Roman Catholics call "dogma."  Having newly learned the difference between "finite" and "infinite" from a sermon my dad preached I was in bed for the night and realized it made no sense: a finite man could not deserve an infinite reward.  I finally resolved the issue by deciding, "Oh well, I guess it's just something you're 'sposed to believe."  At that point I turned over and went to sleep.  There's something very wrong with having that category as acceptable in anybody's head, specially a child's.  Sometimes fundamental teaching for children as well as for beginning believers just doesn't happen.  Too often the opposite has been inculcated early in life.

At some point I began to have some sort of repeated idea associated with the hell doctrine.  I considered it as a balance:  infinite good and infinite evil.  Of course, a false balance is an abomination to the LORD; but, such a thing didn't come up, certainly not in relation to accepted dogma.  With the English word, "saved" it made sense that I would be saved from ceaseless torture for ever in order to enjoy the infinite bliss of heaven.  These alternate destinations were like bookends to my spiritual life, how ever little it was.  We weren't taught Biblical aims in life, just to be better than other people in order to arrive at a better place in death.

In most bureaucratic institutions called churches they tend to dismiss what they cannot produce themselves.  They often use religious terms for those at various levels in their hierarchies of men over other men.   (Jesus says, "It is not so among you, my disciples.")  Notice how they do not have apostles and prophets among their ministry categories?  As we grow up, even in what is supposed to be "orthodox" Christianity, we are not given aspirations to become men of God.  The targets we are mostly given to aim for are secular job descriptions.  We do not consider the possibility of developing into incorruptible immortals.  How can Jesus sound so casual when saying, "Those who happen upon resurrection are as the angels...?"

My point in mentioning this is we aren't taught the real aim of our trajectory as partaking of the Divine nature, as born of God:  personally, corporately, which is the Eclessia (local and universal,) and, as an entire race of sentient beings made by God.  What is the ultimate destiny of all humankind (and of all God kind,) of whom we are each but one example?  This "what He does" is a corollary to recognizing the real nature of God, "Who He is."  The agenda attributed to God for most of humanity to arrive at a condition of permanent evil by what the world calls the Christian mainstream is so off from where we are actually being carried along to by Him words fail to express it.  There have to be major things that just don't work right without the right motive force and direction.

We've seen other incentives for believing in eternal torture arising from the carnal nature.  Obviously, people use it to manipulate others.  As well, it's supposed to make us more diligent in avoiding sin.  (Just see what happens when you determine from the tone of all of theology it must be possible to altogether stop sinning.  The flip side to this coin is to altogether stop accepting death.)  Another unthinkable drive to recognize is some religious people have actually derived pleasure from torturing others.  Of all possible sources, torture utensils were invented in the late Spanish Inquisition, started as an organization to combat heresy.  Some preachers in our days take too eagerly to the practice of tormenting people mentally.

Books should be written on these topics.  Someday this "hell" doctrine will go the way of suttee, the Hindu practice of burning a widow alive along with the corpse of her husband.  It has almost completely stopped by legal ban only 70 or 80 years ago.  This "hell" doesn't have a legal right to be taught or believed since it is not in the Biblical record.  Nowhere does it say, "The wages of sin is ceaseless torture for ever."  As far as the laws of the kingdom of heaven are concerned, it is an illegal belief.

[ded2daworld]

The best book I've ever read on the subject was "The subtle power of spiritual abuse"
I originally bought it for my cult work but saw numerous application to the modern day church.
When you see the spiritual abuse going on you see the modern day church isn't much different from the pharisees
of old. Jesus didn't condemn or call names or even seem to get angry with hookers or theives, but saved his anger to be directed at the controling religious folk(Pharisees) of the day.

[eaglesway]

Absolutely Amen..... When I was doing a lot of work with cults and sects, I realized that sectarian Christians are on their way to becoming cults. It is like the grey middle between light and darkness. Moving from the light(freedom in the Body of Christ through the release of the spirit in love glorifying Jesus) to the grey(legalism, circumscisions, additional identities over "Christ and Him crucified", dominion by men and emulations of charismatic leaders), then on into to the darkness, which is only a matter of degrees from the grey. All of these things amount to sorcery, and there is a lot of sorcery in the church and in the world at large today.
I would say that the three "spirits like frogs" that come out of the mouth of the false prophet gathering the world to Armegeddon are lawlessness, deception and sorcery. They produce death and chaos- the opposite of the Lordship of Jesus which produces life and peace.

The teaching of hell and ET has been about using fear to control and intimidate from the beginning- bondage, anti-christ in nature, since Jesus says, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"....and Paul echoes, "For freedom Christ has set you free, why submit again to a yoke of bondage?"

[reFORMer]

I would say that the three "spirits like frogs" that come out of the mouth of the false prophet gathering the world to Armegeddon are lawlessness, deception and sorcery.

When in prayer 30 years or so ago something came walking toward me.  I saw a giant frog's foot come down right beside me and I tried to look up into the darkness like an obscuring mist that prevented me from seeing more of this huge spirit creature.  A big voice boomed out its name:  "Andronicus."  Then it passed on.  I could hear its footsteps fade away.  Later, looking up that name, I found it means, "man conqueror."

[micah7:9]

"....This "hell" doesn't have a legal right to be taught or believed since it is not in the Biblical record.  Nowhere does it say, "The wages of sin is ceaseless torture for ever."  As far as the laws of the kingdom of heaven are concerned, it is an illegal belief."
(Reformer)    :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[ded2daworld]

Right Micah, after the word "aeonian", hell has got to be the most misunderstood translation word there is.
The problem isn't even the word, it's mankind's view of it.
Sometimes, I amuse myself by telling christians we are all going to hell. They are shocked. Then I add... just like Jesus did.
Unbelieveably, some don't even seem aware of Jesus going to "hell" but it is where the term originated:

"Jesus went to hell and back for us."

[micah7:9]

Right Micah, after the word "aeonian", hell has got to be the most misunderstood translation word there is.
The problem isn't even the word, it's mankind's view of it.
Sometimes, I amuse myself by telling christians we are all going to hell. They are shocked. Then I add... just like Jesus did.
Unbelieveably, some don't even seem aware of Jesus going to "hell" but it is where the term originated:

"Jesus went to hell and back for us."

Well said.  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

I would say that the three "spirits like frogs" that come out of the mouth of the false prophet gathering the world to Armegeddon are lawlessness, deception and sorcery.

When in prayer 30 years or so ago something came walking toward me.  I saw a giant frog's foot come down right beside me and I tried to look up into the darkness like an obscuring mist that prevented me from seeing more of this huge spirit creature.  A big voice boomed out its name:  "Andronicus."  Then it passed on.  I could hear its footsteps fade away.  Later, looking up that name, I found it means, "man conqueror."

wow....

[reFORMer]

Sometimes, I amuse myself by telling christians we are all going to hell. They are shocked. Then I add... just like Jesus did.
Unbelieveably, some don't even seem aware of Jesus going to "hell" but it is where the term originated:

The Creeds have not been regarded as scripture by the people of God.  They were created primarily as help for those who could not read and as a basic summary of what is believed by those who follow Jesus.  The earliest form is called "The Apostle's Creed," and it is probably the most universally satisfying of the Creeds to this day.

The point of interest here is that most copies today have relegated the phrase, "descended into hell" to a footnote, if mentioned at all; and, without that phrase, it is now called "The Ecumenical Creed."  What's this?  We're universal (i.e., ecumenical) if we're not universalists?!  It makes me wonder at the largeness and basic nature of this division in Christians' beliefs.

The fact that Jesus descended into hell and was victorious over it (a doctrine called "The Harrowing of Hell") was very popular with the earliest Gentile Christians, particularly as they considered the future state of their ancestors.  This Biblical truth is also the death knell to a hell of eternal torture, a horrible evil not included to qualify as a basic belief of true Christians.  Instead, the resurrecting Jesus ascends, "From which He is coming to judge the living and the dead."

The original word "flesh" has been exchanged for "body," (without notice) as in, "the resurrection of the 'body.'"  I think the earliest word "flesh" is still to be preferred.  "I believe in the resurrection of the flesh."

I dislike reverting to the word "catholic" to say:  "I believe in the holy 'catholic' church," instead of translating it to say:  "I believe in the holy universal church."  Other than not tipping the hat to Romanism (where admittedly many Christians are,) is it too nearly recognition of "universalism" again?