Deliberate Sin

[CHB]

( IMO death is gone, evil is a made up belief , sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year. )

This is just like the thing where we are sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father.

We know spiritually that these things will be finished and spiritually they are finished but as long as we are here in this body of flesh and blood these things exist. As far as sin existing, it does, because there are those today who still keep the Old Law of Moses. I see it all as a process. Just like progressive revelation, it started in the garden and has been revealed more and more as time goes by.  Are you a full preterist?

CHB

For one thing. sin existing ?   " I do NOT think SO "  well there are millions of people in the flesh living out a life not knowing that God " has made them eternal beings" past tense. i.e. they just have not been awakened by God YET. that does not mean that they are not of God. It means they don't know Him. When YOU come to the understanding that He knows you and You know Him and another step is to become one , when that happens for each person, things change in your thinking.

I agree with the above.

Just thought of something you said about sin. (( "sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year." ) 

Why would sin exist for these people, Jesus sacrifice covered their sins as well, did it not?

As for your thinking of " this body of flesh" where do you think God LIVES sense the resurrection?????  In this earth and that is and was His Second Coming.

As far as preterist, I don't use labels because for one I don't completely understand that word. Most people that have called me that mostly mean something bad. so I guess I have to disagree

but if you want to tell me what is the issue of a preterist to you that is ok. because I am not a person that can be offended in any way. I take all words as wisdom
lee

I believe Jesus lives in us but he is also sitting on the right hand of the Father.
My understanding is, a full preterist believes all things have been fulfilled. You might say I am a partial preterist, although I don't like labels either. I think there are still things to be fulfilled. I think as long as we are human that there are still improvements ahead.

CHB

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

( IMO death is gone, evil is a made up belief , sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year. )

This is just like the thing where we are sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father.

We know spiritually that these things will be finished and spiritually they are finished but as long as we are here in this body of flesh and blood these things exist. As far as sin existing, it does, because there are those today who still keep the Old Law of Moses. I see it all as a process. Just like progressive revelation, it started in the garden and has been revealed more and more as time goes by.  Are you a full preterist?

CHB

For one thing. sin existing ?   " I do NOT think SO "  well there are millions of people in the flesh living out a life not knowing that God " has made them eternal beings" past tense. i.e. they just have not been awakened by God YET. that does not mean that they are not of God. It means they don't know Him. When YOU come to the understanding that He knows you and You know Him and another step is to become one , when that happens for each person, things change in your thinking.

I agree with the above.

Just thought of something you said about sin. (( "sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year." ) 

Why would sin exist for these people, Jesus sacrifice covered their sins as well, did it not?

As for your thinking of " this body of flesh" where do you think God LIVES sense the resurrection?????  In this earth and that is and was His Second Coming.

As far as preterist, I don't use labels because for one I don't completely understand that word. Most people that have called me that mostly mean something bad. so I guess I have to disagree

but if you want to tell me what is the issue of a preterist to you that is ok. because I am not a person that can be offended in any way. I take all words as wisdom
lee

I believe Jesus lives in us but he is also sitting on the right hand of the Father.
My understanding is, a full preterist believes all things have been fulfilled. You might say I am a partial preterist, although I don't like labels either. I think there are still things to be fulfilled. I think as long as we are human that there are still improvements ahead.

CHB

I do not think all things have been fulfilled.  because there is no end to Me or God as One, so things will be fulfilling 24/7   /  365   for ever.   things just change and something new May come along,

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

and as far as those that follow the law.... well they know not what they do, " my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge"   and destroyed is temporary
appolimie 

[shawn]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts.

I'm not sure why but I still have issues waxing and waning between faith based and law based portions of my life.  There are times when I still ache for perfection while living in this flesh, and use perfection as my spiritual measuring stick.  I realize that in essence I am trying to earn justification.

I had an email from Martin Zenders Clanging Gong News this morning.  And it just hit home.  It's a paraphrase of a portion of Romans.  It was what I needed to read this morning.  I think some others who still struggle with old law based notions creeping their way back into our spiritual lives...will find this reading helpful.

http://www.martinzender.com/clanging_gong/Volume3-Issue11.pdf

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Didn't read the article (time constraints) but want to share some points He has made life in me. So with that said, my  :2c:......

The law has it's place. It's as the bones, which the LIFE (blood/Spirit) is hidden in. If we DO NOT press in, to receive from Him the life hidden in the bones, then BECAUSE we are changed from glory (terrestrial/law) to glory (celestial/Spirit), we will stay under subjection to the principles of the law, due to the fact THAT is what we are beholding. It's either one or the other, there is no neutral. We are spiritual Israel.

It's important to understand that we are blind unless the Spirit opens our eyes. He was not just talking about the literal natural blind, when the Word proclaimed, the blind SHALL see. And once they see the true path, the (formerly) lame, shall walk in what they see.

If you can't see the law in action, irregardless of your natural bloodline, just read Deut. 28 and see if you recognize any of those judgments in your life, or the life of your family members. The law is alive and well, and serves a purpose, and those that try to disannul it's obvious influence upon the affairs of men, are as the one thief on the cross, who said if thou be the son of God get us down off this CROSS. The law is a cross to kill the flesh, and those that would bypass it are thieves and robbers.

Matt. 27:38 - Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. 39 And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, 40 And saying , Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. 41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said , 42 He saved others; himself he cannot *save . If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. 43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said *, I am the Son of God. 44 the thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth .

It's a schoolmaster, designed to "herd" us into the Spirit, where His judgments are unto victory. I have a problem with anyone trying to completely "do away" with the law, because HE said He came not to do away with the law but to fulfill it. If He can't do it, why do some think THEY can?  :dontknow:

We are not under the law in the same way the Hebrews were under the law, BUT the principles are TIMELESS and very much apply to us as long as we are in the flesh, which it was designed to KILL. It was a ministry of condemnation, and condemnation ministers death to the hearer (hearer's flesh).

You can't ressurect if you don't first DIE, and we die under the administration of the law by coming into agreement that the law is just and good, that nothing good resides in our flesh, and submitting to the High Priest's administration of it TO that flesh, and we live or have the life hidden in it WHEN THE LIFE CONTAINED IN IT IS PROCLAIMED to us by the Spirit.

Proverbs 1:8 KJV - My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: 9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

When you study this out, the grace upon the head is a crown of life (mind of Christ), the chains upon the neck are the "same" chain as was given to Joseph (a type of overcomer) to wear around his NECK, and the same chain that binds "Satan" in Revelation.  :winkgrin:

Micah 4:2 KJV - And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


Let's talk about the law of thy mother here; the mother in question is Zion as the law comes forth from Zion. Zion was a mount (mountains are heaved up ROCK) upon which Jerusalem was built. Same principle as the waters BELOW (law/foundation) the firmament (heaven/Spirit). This is why our "mother" (soul = that which births) changes from natural (stony/ROCK heart) to spiritual (heavenly Jerusalem = heart of -celestial- flesh).

Luke 2:22 KJV - And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;


Mary is as a type of the flesh/soul of the overcomer, who "births" the Christ child via much travail.
This is He who came thru the water (law/Rock) and the blood (Spirit/firmament). He was both man and God, God is a Spirit. Man is subject to the law, because, and as long as, he continues to reside UNDER the firmament.

Being seated in heavenly places with Christ, has NOTHING to do with our Western mindset of that word meaning to sit, but rather to our ordered placement by Him and Him only, IN the firmament. Jesus essentially told Nicodemus, I'm here talking to you, but I'm in heaven (firmament was called heaven).

Paul said our conversation is to be from heaven. You can't speak from a place you've never been before, and UNTIL our feet stand upon the Rock (law overcome) as in walking upon the water (walking with the law as our foundation stone), with the accompanying signs and wonders following us, proclaiming we have arrived already ONLY by virtue of what HE did, misses the mark. Blessings....

[shawn]

Cardinal, thank you for your posts.  I am minstered to by them.  Some of that is beyond me at this point in my walk.  But, it speaks to something that has been recently revealed to me.  I lack the terms, or the wonderful word useage to describe adequately what I have been understanding.  But, I think much of it flows with what you are saying.  I have to understand this in simple terms.  But, the Bible mirrors the spiritual walk of man and plays out in individual lives.  Even though we live under the New Covenant, there is this parrallel that is congruent with our growth.  Old Covent law leads us to New Covenant grace.  We begin our spiritual lives trying to live by the rules, measure up, profess Jesus yet still trying to earn justification through works and law abiding practices.  As you said, the law is a cross to kill the flesh, and those that would bypass it are thieves and robbers.  The Old Testament of our lives has been built in, and is a necessary component for our growth.  It breaks, then kills the flesh.  It is indeed part of the process, and a good thing.  But, we are called to more.  This is not where the story ends.  God will indeed complete what he has started.  After our flesh has been broken by the law we are able to see things more clearly...blindness is lifted from our eyes.  We know that we can't earn God's gift of grace.  We know that we can't be "good people", "good Christians" or "measure up" using the law as our measuring stick.  In this our eyes turn to the only solution, Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross.  We finally begin to see, and experience this freedom, walking in grace, not of works.  We enter into New Covenant understanding and walk.  We embrace the process.  We trust God is doing a work in us that we can not complete.  We begin to see fruits of this and our faith grows, our trust grows.

While I find myself slip back into old thinking, those times seem to grow shorter and shorter.  I trust that God is removing this from me.  I really like what Zender said on this subject, it seems to go perfectly with what you are saying...

"But, the religious soul must be broken. I find that one must be crushed and bereaved of one's religious and self-righteous aspirations before one becomes truly aware what a joy human failure is, and what liberation is it to embrace the sufficiency and success of Another, namely Jesus Christ, our Lord."

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:

PS. That is my problem too, many times; I lack the words to adequately explain what has been made life in me. All I can do is try, and hope He quickens enough to me get it out right.  :dontknow: