Its still spiritual

[micah7:9]

Just where did "spiritual death " come from and just what does it mean when I personally cannot find such a thing in the written word? I can find spiritually discerned, spiritually minded and Rev 11:8  ... spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where, their Lord also was crucified.
I have and do teach the concept, but where did I get it? Paul did not teach it as far as I know, Jesus never taught it as far as I know, so where did I get it. I believe it is significant I understand the concept, but if I can and many today do as well...I just must wonder, why didnt Paul and the other Apostles use the phrase?
See that is where I become befuddled, if the idea and concept is so much understood today, and simple, why did not the early teachers of the Word put it together as such?
I know Ive been here before, but certainly I must not have recieved an answer that met my quest.  As far as I reason death, is not breathing, unalive, no longer a living soul. Spirit is the very opposite, it is breath, air.
SPIRITUAL G4152   pneumatikos   From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591. G4151   pneuma   a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze
I ask all this, so that I may understand what I have been taught for so many years that Gen.2:17 and Gen.3:3 tells me that... man/I died, spiritually? I will stop now and see if I can find some thoughts from the bretheren.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[thinktank]

That's an interesting question. I think the main angle is that whether or not death/darkness has power to sustain itself. If it is able to sustain itself then it means, that any spirit in the realm of death is able to operate forever, until God intervenes. However after reading some viewpoints from various religions from the past, it seems evil, steals or feeds of the energy from those who are connected to the source of life.

So Perhaps someone in the condition of death, is able to sustain life in the death condition for "x" amount of time, so Adam for example did not die the day he ate the fruit, but died inwardly, theerfore he carried on living, until his body detoriated and if one beleives in it, then he would also carry on living spiritually, personally I think he would still be in the realm of death, but since he did not completely walk away from God, then his hell after world would, contain elements of heaven also.

But if to be spiritually dead or carnal minded, does not have any power, but merely absence of life, then I guess a spirit just fizzles out, just like the natural body, until God intervenes.

[micah7:9]

That's an interesting question. I think the main angle is that whether or not death/darkness has power to sustain itself. If it is able to sustain itself then it means, that any spirit in the realm of death is able to operate forever, until God intervenes. However after reading some viewpoints from various religions from the past, it seems evil, steals or feeds of the energy from those who are connected to the source of life.

So Perhaps someone in the condition of death, is able to sustain life in the death condition for "x" amount of time, so Adam for example did not die the day he ate the fruit, but died inwardly, theerfore he carried on living, until his body detoriated and if one beleives in it, then he would also carry on living spiritually, personally I think he would still be in the realm of death, but since he did not completely walk away from God, then his hell after world would, contain elements of heaven also.

But if to be spiritually dead or carnal minded, does not have any power, but merely absence of life, then I guess a spirit just fizzles out, just like the natural body, until God intervenes.

I aint good at analzing, but I reason that light has two parts, lummination and no lummination, unlummination without lummination has no energy. Light is the energy for all light, without liight there is no energy. Thus DARKNESS!

I really believe that man has misunderstood "spirit" by a barnyard side yet as the Lord leads ,some will hear the energy, yes those with "ears to hear what the Spirit is saying..." I really believe that we, man, us have taken His Spirit for words in a book. Man today says there are "satanists" there is a"church of satan," just where did the Bible believeing christain get all this FYI?

Just where did "spiritual death " come from and just what does it mean when I personally cannot find such a thing in the written word? I can find spiritually discerned, spiritually minded and Rev 11:8  ... spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where, their Lord also was crucified.
I have and do teach the concept, but where did I get it? Paul did not teach it as far as I know, Jesus never taught it as far as I know, so where did I get it. I believe it is significant I understand the concept, but if I can and many today do as well...I just must wonder, why didnt Paul and the other Apostles use the phrase?
See that is where I become befuddled, if the idea and concept is so much understood today, and simple, why did not the early teachers of the Word put it together as such?
I know Ive been here before, but certainly I must not have recieved an answer that met my quest.  As far as I reason death, is not breathing, unalive, no longer a living soul. Spirit is the very opposite, it is breath, air.
SPIRITUAL G4152   pneumatikos   From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591. G4151   pneuma   a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze
I ask all this, so that I may understand what I have been taught for so many years that Gen.2:17 and Gen.3:3 tells me that... man/I died, spiritually? I will stop now and see if I can find some thoughts from the bretheren.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[thinktank]

I think most preacher I have heard, tend to talk about how Adam did not physically die the day he ate the tree of good and evil, therefore conclude that he must have died spiritually. But I have not heard them explain in detail how a spiritually dead person can continue to live as a spirit, apart from saying that we are made in Gods image, therefore immortal.

I guess their view is that spiritually dead can mean many things, but means to them and most Christians I guess is that mainly refers to being seperated from God's love, whether in the body or outside the body, a spiritually dead person is away from God.

I personally would use the term spiritually dead for many different concepts/ideas. I.e it could mean what I said above but can also mean for the actual spirit to extinguish and die. Maybe that's the reason why Paul never used the term, because it is more accurate to say that "spiritually dead" would refer to a dead spirit, no longer living, in Earth, heaven, sea, hades, bottonless pit , outer space or whatever other place can potentially exist, so maybe Paul avoided the term spiritually dead, because maybe the Lord did not teach him the above concept, but taught him that the spirit continued to live onwards even after the soulbody-tabernacle, collapses.

:2c:

[micah7:9]

Good thoughts, thank you. Still, there is much said in todays ministries or spiritual things. I only found the word "spiritually" used only 3 times in the N.T. Rom 8:6 "spiritually minded," I Cor. 2:14 "spiritually discerned, and Rev. 11:8 "spiritually is called Sodom in Egypt." I do understand what these speak of.

[micah7:9]

I think most preacher I have heard, tend to talk about how Adam did not physically die the day he ate the tree of good and evil, therefore conclude that he must have died spiritually. But I have not heard them explain in detail how a spiritually dead person can continue to live as a spirit, apart from saying that we are made in Gods image, therefore immortal.

I guess their view is that spiritually dead can mean many things, but means to them and most Christians I guess is that mainly refers to being seperated from God's love, whether in the body or outside the body, a spiritually dead person is away from God.

I personally would use the term spiritually dead for many different concepts/ideas. I.e it could mean what I said above but can also mean for the actual spirit to extinguish and die. Maybe that's the reason why Paul never used the term, because it is more accurate to say that "spiritually dead" would refer to a dead spirit, no longer living, in Earth, heaven, sea, hades, bottonless pit , outer space or whatever other place can potentially exist, so maybe Paul avoided the term spiritually dead, because maybe the Lord did not teach him the above concept, but taught him that the spirit continued to live onwards even after the soulbody-tabernacle, collapses.

:2c:

So maybe by what you said, that Paul did not use the phrase, that it would confuse matters? I highly doubt that Paul was not taught spiritual insight. Anyway, to me it just seems odd that the concept is well accepted today and seems to be understood, why Paul had not put the two words together in his teachings. Thanks

[thinktank]

I guess words change over time. Hell for example is something that has changed over the centuries, from being the grave, to a place of torture, to a state of being, also hell is subsituted for other words e.g Tartarus( I reason that there might be many differnt worlds in the afterlife, typical Christian theology concludes either heaven or hell, but I reason there are multiple worlds, e.g sea could be a place, where leviathian hangs out, hades another place, tartarus a prison for evil beings, heaven a place of angelic worlds, where angels and devils angels live, mount Zion Gods capital city in Heaven. But none of the original anointed sacred manuscripts used the word "hell" but now seems to place the word hell, instead of using the names of these different worlds.

Just showing you how a modern word like hell can be invented as a catch all term.

I'll have to do more study on Pauls words to see what he says, to convey spiritually dead. I.e does Paul mention this or any of the gospels using different words or sentences to "spiritually dead".

[micah7:9]

Aint found none.

[Molly]

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

--Gen 3

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

[WhiteWings]

I guess words change over time.

Very true. But I've yet to see an example that shows that the meaning of spiritual death changed over time.
Obviously spiritual death isn't physical death. We all know what physical death means. It means the body of dust is dead in the secular meaning of the word.
So the only other possible type of death is a death of something that's not made of touchable materials like flesh and bones.
The only other thing the Bible speaks of is the spirit. So if something else can die it must be the spirit.

What is death?

^EBRJohn 11
25 Jesus said unto her––I, am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, even though he die, shall live again!

Death is the absence of life.
Jesus is life.
So death is the absence of Jesus.

Billions of people have an absence of Jesus but they are all very much alive doing things with their dust bodies.
That means their spiritual body is dead. Or at least 'disconnected'.

So yes, I think although the term spiritual death isn't literally in the Bible it's a correct term.

[micah7:9]

 I am not questioning spiritual death, or what we know it to be.  I have just been wondering why, if it is so simple and understandable...  the phrase "spiritually dead/death"... why iit was not used in the early church teachings.  Why do you think Paul and the Apostles did not use it? Maybe it was so obvious to the folks back then, and if that is so, why do we today have to say it in our teachings? Thanks

[thinktank]

Billions of people have an absence of Jesus but they are all very much alive doing things with their dust bodies.
That means their spiritual body is dead. Or at least 'disconnected'.

So yes, I think although the term spiritual death isn't literally in the Bible it's a correct term

Wings

That's the challenge though to find out if God means that when Adam died he, died pysically and also spirit. So God simply says he dies as a catch all term. Since physical death took a while, perhaps also spiritual death eventually takes it toll, and the spirit without God runs out of life force. If so then when God said to Adam you shall die, then he meant both physical and spirit death. But another challenge is that if this is true then, does that means the spirit dies the same time as the body?. But from personal beliefs I think a spirit can live longer than the physical body and continue to live even after the body expires. My personal challenge is to find out whether it is possible for a evil spirit or a demon, to continue living without God for ever, or would they expire?. It seems to be that if a demon who is without God can continue to live, then either

1. They feed on darkness/dark energy or something, which if existed would be destroyed by God as death is the last enemy to be destroyed, so there would be no more enemies.
2. They feed on humanity - reference in Genesis
2B They are made mortal, but that mortality lasts much longer than 120 years, perhaps as long as 10 thousand years  :dontknow:
3. Every spirit is made immortal built in, by God. Even if they lean towards the darkside

But humanity was made in Gods image so perhaps only humanity spirit is immortal, while demons/angels are mortal beings who maybe feed on humanity to sustain their life.

But if the devil lives for thousands of years without God, then a human spirit  outside the physical dust body should be able to aswell.

Might bring new meaning to "whosoever believeth not on me shall perish"

[Molly]

Spiritually dead means not connected to Christ, therefore not connected to Life, as ww said.

There is still a spirit, but it is connected to death.

Let the dead bury their dead.
--Luke 9

[Beloved Servant]

The silver cord!

[micah7:9]

Spiritually dead means not connected to Christ, therefore not connected to Life, as ww said.

There is still a spirit, but it is connected to death.

Let the dead bury their dead.
--Luke 9

"Spiritually dead means not connected to Christ..." So then man was spiritually dead after Gen. 3:6, not connected to Christ, and not connected to life, what am I to do with, Eve being the mother of all LIVING and Adam Gen 5:5  And all the days of Adam which he lived are nine hundred and thirty years, and he dieth.
If Adam was spiritually dead Gen.3:6 how could he be not connected to life if he lived
"are nine hundred and thirty years, and he dieth."  ??

[thinktank]

It seems to be at one angle is that, just like a car battery, it can work for x period of time, but after disconnecting to the charger (God), the battery still works, but will eventually lose it's charge. Not sure though whether it is exclusive to the body or the spirit and since we cannot see if the spirit expires, then we don't know for sure if it still carries on, but a lot of people Christian and non Christain believe it does.

We know that the physical body wears out and dies and Adam did eventually die, perhaps he was killed in some way, by an angry bear etc but we know that human bodies eventually wear out.

[Cardinal]

"Spiritually dead means not connected to Christ..." So then man was spiritually dead after Gen. 3:6, not connected to Christ, and not connected to life, what am I to do with, Eve being the mother of all LIVING and Adam Gen 5:5  And all the days of Adam which he lived are nine hundred and thirty years, and he dieth.
If Adam was spiritually dead Gen.3:6 how could he be not connected to life if he lived
"are nine hundred and thirty years, and he dieth."  ??

:cloud9: Because there is drawing your life from the soulish realm, and there is drawing your life from the Spirit. Every man is given the initial breath of life, which is the measure of faith given to the soul to receive Him, but because of this veil of forgetfulness cast over us, we are as the scripture, "all men seek after their own things, and not the things which be of Christ (Spirit).

This breath of life is the same as the letter Word which without being mixed with faith profits nothing; and so we must press in to receive the Spirit Word, and so it is written man shall not live (or have the life of the SPIRIT) by bread (letter) alone, but by every word (Spirit breathed) that proceeds from the mouth of the Father.

And so, being alive, yet they are dead. Same as the water baptism, a type of being lowered and being made conformable to His death. All of creation, including man, is designated as the "waters below the firmament (lower than the angels), and as such are corrupted (dead) Word.

There must come a quickening, a RESURRECTION, a passing from this death into the life of the Spirit. The baptism in the Spirit is being baptized or raised up (resurrected/made upright or righteous) into the likeness of His LIFE, which has no corruption. And so we read, "the fervent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS (upright) man availeth much." Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Am I more than just animated clay?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think so.......literally I knew you before there was time and we made a covenant to meet in our journey to return back to the Father; time, which happened at the moment we woke up in these "dirt suits", ie. the veil of forgetfulness, forgetting who we were in Him from the foundation (comes of a word meaning to THROW DOWN) of the world. You can't return to a place you've never been before.... :winkgrin:  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Am I more than just animated clay?

Actually no.
Does that trouble you? Why would you consider yourself anything more? Do you feel you could do better that the potter who is working the "animated clay?"
I am glad that I am animated clay, considering the shape I was in and for that matter still am in feeble in my walk. Yeah, Im animated clay and gald He is still working me.

[thinktank]

:cloud9: I think so.......literally I knew you before there was time and we made a covenant to meet in our journey to return back to the Father; time, which happened at the moment we woke up in these "dirt suits", ie. the veil of forgetfulness, forgetting who we were in Him from the foundation (comes of a word meaning to THROW DOWN) of the world. You can't return to a place you've never been before.... :winkgrin:  :HeartThrob:

So positive of this? Then why does the idea of male and female created He Them, frighten you?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I have no idea what you mean  :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

Is the believer, someone who believes in Jesus Christ somewhat stereotyped? Doesnt smoke, drink, swear or cuss.
I mean, does a believer who has faith in Jesus Christ, have to be a non-smoker, a non-drinker, someone not known for much anger.
I realize that 1Ti 3:3  not given to wine, not a striker, not given to filthy lucre, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money,
1Ti 3:8  Ministrants--in like manner grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not given to filthy lucre,

But should a soul have been found by Jesus and has been moved to believe, and does but still drinks and perhaps smokes and chews is that person at all availabe to the Will and Word of God?

[Beloved Servant]

Mark 2:17; Jesus heard the words, and He said, "It is not the healthy who require a doctor, but the sick: I did not come to appeal to the righteous, but to sinners. Romans 3:10;
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

[Beloved Servant]

It's a process:

Romans 8:29;
For those whom He has known beforehand He has also pre-destined to bear the likeness of His Son, that He might be the Eldest in a vast family of brothers.


"For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"