What were the Nephilim

[Universalist Catholic]

according to Genesis

1. When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
2. the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
3. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
4. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Many people say they were Women impregnated by Demons, producing giants.

[thinktank]

I think this will be an unsolved mystery until the end. When the end comes if giants appear, then there must be something to this story, and we'll have to muster up King Davids to get rid of them. Some say they have developed flying technology and left and went to another star system and may return at the time of the end and, they might possibly be related to the 4 horsemen in the book of revelation, who seem to come from heaven, and they are violent and full of death, just like those giants of old.

So shall it be as in the days of Noah, they planted, married etc

It is also interesting that in Daniels book, the fourth kingdom on the earth is made of iron, and it degrades into part iron and part clay, and these do not mix with each other. The clay part could be the human part, since man is made of clay, that men break into civil war, and causes a split between the iron and the clay. This could be because the kingdom is set up by the giants, or non human source hence iron does not mix with the seed of men.

1. The image of the statue is massive

2. The iron kingdom, is cold hearted and unlike others cannot break by wielding a sword, but God will destroy it :)

3. The fourth beast of Daniel later on is made of iron, the rest are made of beast made of blood. Which suggests that the fourth kingdom is not of men

4. The little horn, scatters the power and gives honour to a god of forces, he gives part of his kingdom to ???? possibly either men, or to these giants

So if you believe this, start stocking up on some slingshots  :icon_joker:


But bare in mind, that these giants may not be part of the kingdom at all and might just be a distraction that the devil, unleashes, while his other armies go to work and build the fourth iron beast kingdom.

Also bare in mind I have no idea who the 4th iron kingdom is, therefore this is just speculation. But considering that the 4 beast is the very last beast and the begining of the end for satan, then I assume that this last kingdom, will be diverse from the others and be set up by the devil and his angels Rev12, says the dragon was cast out into the earth. It is crazy, but it seems that in the very end people will actively worship the dragon, the beast, the false prophet, also the book of Romans say that God gave up their natural affections and they burned in lust for one another, they set up idols and worshipped the creature more than the creator. So basically they worship anything but God.

[Lefein]

It is of my opinion that the Nephilim are the children of "Heaven born" creatures who have espoused themselves to human women.

Heaven-born; angel, cherub, seraph - these seem to be positions of office, rather than the name of a sentient spiritual species or race beyond humanity.  But what ever species of creature constitutes the bulk of Heaven's populace, these "sons of God" that is what I mean by the term "Heaven born".

I do not necessarily think that all the Nephilim are evil, neither that the angelic persons who took wives of the daughters of men were necessarily demonic.  I think that some of the angels merely saw these women as exceedingly beautiful, and beautiful enough to fall in love...literally.  And so took them as wives, which implies more than just a one-night stand, but an actual relationship involving marriage.  These relationships produced children.

Some of the angelic creatures may have been evil and fallen, some may have been quite noble and good, we are not really told that in Genesis; we are only told that the sons of God took human wives and had children who were men of renown or fame.  The term "sons of God" however tells me that for the majority of the case, these angels were still in God's favour, and still members of God's court.  Legion didn't call God "Father", neither did Satan when he accused Job in Heaven, the devil is hardly ever called a son of God.

The Nephilim themselves, I don't think were all evil.  But it would seem to me that these men were of a certain quality different from humans, perhaps in size, but not necessarily.  Power perhaps, status perhaps, having angelic features, and such.

These Nephilim became men of renown, and fame.  I am sure that they were like many humans around them - prone to evil, but not without goodness either.  Some may have done terrible deeds, becoming famous as Hitler is famous - and others may have been great heroes until they too began to fall under the dark influence that was covering the earth, which brought the flood upon them.  Human and Nephilim alike.

[WhiteWings]

Angels are said to often appear in human flesh. Other examples include the angel that appeared to Balaam in Numbers 22:31 and another to Manoah and his wife in Judges 13. If spirits have the ability to manifest in human flesh, and if they can even eat food, then it follows that they could also have the ability to have sexual relations with women and even to produce children by them. Of course, they only had this ability after taking human flesh.

These angels were called Nephilim, or "giants" in Genesis 6:4. This is the plural form of nephil, "a feller," or one who cuts others down; hence, a bully or tyrant. The root word is naphal, "to fall." This is probably the origin of the idea of "fallen" angels. Though Nephilim applies primarily to their actions in cutting down others, it carries this secondary meaning of having been felled by God in the flood.

The angels are thus "fallen," but this is not to enter into the debate about whether or not angels have free will. That is a separate question. If angels do have free will, then they fell of their own free will. If not, then they were caused to fall for purposes known fully by God alone. We must limit our scope for now to the simple assertion that they are "fallen." The nature of their "fall" in the sense of their disobedience is given in Jude 6,

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/Chapter.cfm?CID=81

[Nathan]

Understanding first that the spiritual implications have greater value here than the natural events themselves, I would venture to say that there are many experiences Scripture refers to that many readers struggle with trying to articulate them.  Having said that, I believe there was some spiritual perversions taking place here where spirit beings were being intimate with natural flesh.  The question I would love to see someone address would be "why"?  Why did the fallen angels leave their first estate to procreate with flesh?  What was their purpose?

If you follow the Nephilim through Scripture, you'll find they are more than just giants . . .There are many references to giants but not all are defined as Nephilim.  They weren't just large in size, but they were evil as well.  It was these same decendants that put so much fear in the scouts of the Israelites that it kept them from entering into the promised land. 

I disagree with the idea that some were good and some were bad . . . if we are to render this literally, they were fallen angels . .they were angels that were created to operate in a higher realm than the earth, yet they chose to leave their higher post for this lower state.  Which again begs the question  . ."Why?"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Their purpose was/is to get into the bloodline of Adam, which they know is going to be completely cleansed, sins not only covered, but REMOVED. My  :2c:

[shawn]

Understanding first that the spiritual implications have greater value here than the natural events themselves, I would venture to say that there are many experiences Scripture refers to that many readers struggle with trying to articulate them.  Having said that, I believe there was some spiritual perversions taking place here where spirit beings were being intimate with natural flesh.  The question I would love to see someone address would be "why"?  Why did the fallen angels leave their first estate to procreate with flesh?  What was their purpose?

If you follow the Nephilim through Scripture, you'll find they are more than just giants . . .There are many references to giants but not all are defined as Nephilim.  They weren't just large in size, but they were evil as well.  It was these same decendants that put so much fear in the scouts of the Israelites that it kept them from entering into the promised land. 

I disagree with the idea that some were good and some were bad . . . if we are to render this literally, they were fallen angels . .they were angels that were created to operate in a higher realm than the earth, yet they chose to leave their higher post for this lower state.  Which again begs the question  . ."Why?"

Maybe for the same reasons that humans have a propensity to gravitate to the lower states of spiritual existence.

[thinktank]

:cloud9: Their purpose was/is to get into the bloodline of Adam, which they know is going to be completely cleansed, sins not only covered, but REMOVED. My  :2c:

I have heard this before, even they ( assuming that "they" are the Nephilim) claim this, albeit with a sleight twist.

Does this mean they have repented? If they are williing or trying to have their sins cleansed?

[Nathan]

I not only have heard that before, I've preached it as well.  That was why I asked the question.  But anymore, I do the Rob Bell thing when people start asking questions.  I try to answer by diverting the question toward areas that I think are more productive, not saying it's not productive at all to hash over details of hard to comprehend natural interpretations.  But the spiritual principles that lie beneath the surface just seems to me to be much more fulfilling to pursue.

[thinktank]

# Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Perhaps this answers my question. That they are trying to avoid the judgement of the great day, via scientific methods, instead of spiritual inward repentance. I also recall cardinal instructing me the same thing. This scientific tampering would make it much easier to repent, but the difficulty lies within the idea that such a thing is even possible, the idea that scientific tampering with dna can cleanse them, or any being of sin stained blood .

Judes scripture might explain why they seem to be stuck underground from a natural perspective, but simply limiting the prison to natural physics, would not suffice to keep them there, so it must also be some kind of spiritual boundary held in place to prevent them from escaping...but somehow are able to access our world via portals, which I think are opened up using certain methods and perhaps but not limited to via certain weaknesses and/or unwise occult activity.

[Lefein]

Isn't there supposed to be an angel bound in the Euphrates river?

[Nathan]

Literally? 
In going through the study of Revelation, I found that there's much more going on there, like in everything else of course, than what meets the eye.  Euphrates "means" fruitfulness.  a river of fruitfulness dries up in preparation for the kings of the east to cross the riverbed and take the land.,  We are kings and priests, east speaks of resurrection . . .the resurrection of the sun rising up from the east every morning is a proclamation of the dominance resurrection has in our very lives.  The message of the kings of the east is one of resurrection . . .it's a picture of a shifting of life as we know it to be. 

Whether or not an angel is literally bound in this literal river just doesn't seem to have as much revelance as the symbolism that comes with that picture has. The fruitfulness that's drying up is the accessable comfort men have come accustom to, they embrace the fruitfulness but disregard it's source . . .change is coming . .it's already begun.

[DrAnthonyCarnasis]

In my opinion, here is what I believe is a more accurate and sensible conclusion concerning the Nephilim.

The Nephilim:The union between the sons of Seth, who maintained God's blessings of power, and the daughters of Cain, who gave into sin and indulged in their perverse nature; producing children, who through Seth were blessed by God with great power, giants both politically and economically but followed the way of Cain, turning their backs on God and giving into sin using God's blessings to indulge the carnal nature.

Genesis 6:4-6 (Young's Literal Translation)
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day; and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.

Acts 17:29 "We are sons of God..."

Those "Angels" of Jude, go by another name, "Messengers". Messengers are those entrusted with a message and ordained to share it with all mankind. With the an accurate understanding of this word, we recognize that this does not solely describe celestial spiritual beings but rather it is talking about blessed men entrusted with the gospel who fell away and changed it to fit to suit their personal gain.

Jude 1:6 And the messengers who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Jude 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain.

The Nephilim is a spiritual principle. What happened in Genesis has happened (is happening) with Israel, and has happened (is happening) with those who call themselves Christian. Whether it is a civilization in the past, present or future, it is a story that describes men and the spiritual principles we must learn and overcome or face the same and suffer needlessly as they did.

My advice, replace those gaps of knowledge with truth and not with our imaginations or we too become those fallen ones.

[micah7:9]

I beleive that friend, you have truely begun to scrape upon the truth of the matter. :thumbsup:

[shawn]

In my opinion, here is what I believe is a more accurate and sensible conclusion concerning the Nephilim.

The Nephilim:The union between the sons of Seth, who maintained God's blessings of power, and the daughters of Cain, who gave into sin and indulged in their perverse nature; producing children, who through Seth were blessed by God with great power, giants both politically and economically but followed the way of Cain, turning their backs on God and giving into sin using God's blessings to indulge the carnal nature.

Genesis 6:4-6 (Young's Literal Translation)
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day; and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.

Acts 17:29 "We are sons of God..."

Those "Angels" of Jude, go by another name, "Messengers". Messengers are those entrusted with a message and ordained to share it with all mankind. With the an accurate understanding of this word, we recognize that this does not solely describe celestial spiritual beings but rather it is talking about blessed men entrusted with the gospel who fell away and changed it to fit to suit their personal gain.

Jude 1:6 And the messengers who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Jude 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain.

The Nephilim is a spiritual principle. What happened in Genesis has happened (is happening) with Israel, and has happened (is happening) with those who call themselves Christian. Whether it is a civilization in the past, present or future, it is a story that describes men and the spiritual principles we must learn and overcome or face the same and suffer needlessly as they did.

My advice, replace those gaps of knowledge with truth and not with our imaginations or we too become those fallen ones.

I think that take on the Nephilim makes the most amount of sense to me.

[Molly]

For those who wish to entertain the notion that the nephilim are real, supernatural, and present and active today, there is Michael Heiser's fictional book, The Facade.  You can download one chapter for free.

http://www.facadethebook.com/



Luke 17:26
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

[WhiteWings]

In my opinion, here is what I believe is a more accurate and sensible conclusion concerning the Nephilim.

The Nephilim:The union between the sons of Seth, who maintained God's blessings of power, and the daughters of Cain, who gave into sin and indulged in their perverse nature;

Mmm, reread post #3
I think it doesn't contradict your view. Cain killed Abel.
Kill= cut down = slay = nephil
Nephilim are decendents of the first nephil (Cain)
:2c:

[Nathan]

In my opinion, here is what I believe is a more accurate and sensible conclusion concerning the Nephilim.

The Nephilim:The union between the sons of Seth, who maintained God's blessings of power, and the daughters of Cain, who gave into sin and indulged in their perverse nature; producing children, who through Seth were blessed by God with great power, giants both politically and economically but followed the way of Cain, turning their backs on God and giving into sin using God's blessings to indulge the carnal nature.

Genesis 6:4-6 (Young's Literal Translation)
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day; and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.

Acts 17:29 "We are sons of God..."

Those "Angels" of Jude, go by another name, "Messengers". Messengers are those entrusted with a message and ordained to share it with all mankind. With the an accurate understanding of this word, we recognize that this does not solely describe celestial spiritual beings but rather it is talking about blessed men entrusted with the gospel who fell away and changed it to fit to suit their personal gain.

Jude 1:6 And the messengers who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Jude 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain.

The Nephilim is a spiritual principle. What happened in Genesis has happened (is happening) with Israel, and has happened (is happening) with those who call themselves Christian. Whether it is a civilization in the past, present or future, it is a story that describes men and the spiritual principles we must learn and overcome or face the same and suffer needlessly as they did.

My advice, replace those gaps of knowledge with truth and not with our imaginations or we too become those fallen ones.

If it's pertaining to sons of Seth and daughters of Cain . . .why then does it not mention that?  There's no mention of names.  Could not the daughters of Seth also become defiled by the sons of Cain?  why the specific connection with daughters of men and Sons of God?  What this idea is saying is that it was the decendants of the blessed and the decendants of the cursed became intimate with one another . . .even though there is no direct instruction for Seth's decendants to stay away from Cain's decendants . . .there just seems to be a lot of additional assumptions in this mix that are not actually stated in the context.

I do wholly beleive there's a spiritual picture in how we, who have both the son's of God characteristics (spirit) and daughters of men (carnal flesh/mind) within us and when we make the attempt to blend the two by taking spiritual truth and applying it to natural reasoning . . .we pervert the intimacy of truth.  And "that" is what I pursue, is the spiritual picture drawn . .but as far as the literal, "focusing" on angels sleeping with people really has little relevance.  And then to redefine the entire thing by saying what's really going on is it's actually about Seth and Cain . . .I think for me, that appears to be just as much blending between spiritual and natural as anything else that's been stated.

Were does the Seth/Cain ideology originate?  Are there other writings that depict this scene to be decendants?  And if it is merely decendants, why then the distinction between ONLY the SONS of Seth and ONLY  the DAUGHTERS of CAIN??  Why not both sons AND daughters of Seth and the same with Cain???  Why didn't the daughters of Seth find themselves in the arms of the sons of Cain?  It just seems the more we try to reason out our explanation, the less understandable it becomes.

[thinktank]

This idea of mutant giant offspring arising becase some of Gods angels decided to rebel and commit this act comes from the book of enoch. So there is a more direct revelation coming from that book. But whether that book is inspired is the challenge we must face, because the truth of the matter is that the bible is not 66 books, who decided the bible is only 66 books? Man or God?. With the revelation that there can be more than 66 books,  with aditional revelation coming from other prophets such as enoch, which Jude makes mention of in her book, it means that there is Holy inspired scriptures out there which can explain in more detail various seemingly missing pieces of the bible. Now I do believe that the current 66 bok format has enough info in it to explain certaion mysteries, but yet, is limited in its information. E.g one might be able to find out more knowledge about the rebellion of the angels, through the 66 boks, but yet that knowledge is limited. There should be in my opinion more information out there concerning the origin of the devil for example, and I suspect that this information is held and tied with certain occult groups. Perhaps it is better that this information is withheld, even Paul said we know in part, but yet I suspect that a large portion of information concerning our history for example is held and tied up with certain people or groups, in fact to be more detailed I think that mystery babylon holds this information in her hand, so that by her sorceries she can deceive the nations, for the word of God is the most powerful weapon in the world, dare I say if I had enough faith, the universe and if mystery babylon can manipilate this book then she can manipilate the nations.

[redhotmagma]

ThinkTank

Read this http://www.askelm.com/restoring/index.asp
the short of it is the Bible actually is 49 books layed out in 7 sections

I feel that mystery babylon changed the order of the books (conveniently to 66) to hide the straightforward message.

[DrAnthonyCarnasis]

Hello Nathan,

Thank you for your concern, and question.

It very much does speak on sons of Seth who are called sons of God and the daughters of Cain who are called daughters of men. The key is to read Scripture disregarding the artificial chapter and verse and we will then see a contextual understanding of Genesis 6. That is, we must read Genesis 4 which speaks of Cain to Noah and shows us why the children of Seth are now called sons of God, and Genesis 5 from Adam to Noah where we will notice the children of Seth and Cain converge in the Seventh Generation. This is when we reach Genesis 6.

However before that, let us qualify who are called 'Sons of God'

John 1:12-13 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name, who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten.

Romans 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Now let us read who are the why the Children of Seth are called sons of God.

Genesis 4:25-26 Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him." Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to call on the name of the LORD.

Now reading Genesis 4 and 5 before we read Genesis 6, we realize that the children of Seth marry into the children of Cain in the Seventh Generation. It is at this time, we now read Genesis 6.

Genesis 6:1-5 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Thank-you,

Dr. Anthony Carnasis
www.studentoftheword.com

P.S. Thinktank, the Book of Enoch is a self-described parable, therefore it is not to be taken literally but metaphorically.

[Molly]

Although one could argue, and Michael Heiser does, that sons of God is the title given to those on the divine council, yet we know that Adam himself was called a son of God [Luke 3].  Was Adam originally created to be a member of the council?  Is that why Satan [the Nephesh] came against him in the garden?

A decision has to be made, therefore, whether the Bible is dealing with supernatural beings who are called 'sons of God,' and whether those beings are the fallen of Gen 6, and whether mankind is to replace those beings on the divine council.  If one makes the decision that yes, this is correct, a lot of things start to make sense that otherwise do not.

The temptation, nevertheless, is to strip the Bible of everything supernatural, although nothing could be more supernatural than the resurrected Christ himself.

[Nathan]

To Doc's post
I appreciate your attempt to clarify, but again, if what you're saying is accurate, then I find it peculiar that in the entirety of Scripture, at no other passage does it indicate that sons of God are referring to Seth or daughters of men are referring to Cain.  Only in this ONE incident which causes hesitation to build any sort of belief on it, especially when that belief is indicating or implying other things outside of what has been written.

I've heard the Seth/Cain explanation before and the clarity of it sort of phases in and out for me.  It doesn't seem to follow any pattern to be understood clearly from a natural perspective.  I guess my question then would be, what is the motivation behind denying the fact that angels have the ability to appear in human form, but not the ablity to procreate in that human form?  Are they really in human form?  Or can they only give the "appearance" of a human, but not really carry all of the characteristics of a human . . .like reproducing.

Now, from your end of things, I think it's safe to say that Noah would then have been a decendant of Seth and because God esentially wiped out the lineage of Cain, the bloodline from Noah on would always be from Seth?  And if this is to be true, it would then beg the question . . where did the bloodline of Anak originate?  Where did Goliath come from?  There were still giants that grew in numbers to the point that much of Canaan was heavily populated with them at the time when Moses sent the scouts over to survey the land.  If this is dealing with blood lines, pure and impure, how could giants return again if God had already wiped out Cain's legacy?

[DrAnthonyCarnasis]

Molly, I believe there is no temptation to throw out anything supernatural in Scripture, when demonstrating that the Nephilim are the children of the line of Seth and of Cain. It is only demonstrating that there was no supernatural union between a spiritual creature and a dust creation.

[DrAnthonyCarnasis]

Nathan, I believe there is less evidence to present a supernatural union between a spiritual creature and a dust creation, than there is evidence presenting that the children of Seth who called upon the Name of the Lord would be called Sons of God who later went the way of Cain.