Zender: Death=Death

[shawn]

I am just curious to what you think about this video.  Zender obviously doesn't see things the way many of us do here concerning the LoF.  And he leaves the issue of the second death unresolved in this video.  What are your thoughts?

http://www.martinzender.com/crack_o_dawn/second_death.htm

[legoman]

I am just curious to what you think about this video.  Zender obviously doesn't see things the way many of us do here concerning the LoF.  And he leaves the issue of the second death unresolved in this video.  What are your thoughts?

http://www.martinzender.com/crack_o_dawn/second_death.htm

I can see his point, but this really comes down to interpretation of alot of different things, and if you change your interpretation on one of those things a tiny bit, you can come to a completely different conclusion.  Is the lake of fire:

a) eternal torture
b) annihilation
c) a place of refinement in the future
d) this life we are living right now
e) death (as Martin says in his video) - after which there will be resurrection

Personally I've ruled out a) and b), I can see arguments for the rest.

Regardless, Zender is one crazy wacky guy!  :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

To answer that question the first thing we have to know is who/what is the refiners fire and when does it take place....

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/the_lake_fire_or_le_lac_de_feu_8145.0.html

[Molly]

He uses the example of the prodigal son as an example that death is death.  The son is in a pigsty.  That's figurative death.  but then Zender claims that dead is dead and means the absence of life.  So don't go looking for resurrection in a pigsty.

But where does the son come to his senses?

15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
   17 "When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.' 20 So he got up and went to his father.

--Luke 15

In the pig sty!  He comes to his senses in the pig sty.

Zender proves himself wrong with his own example.

[shawn]

He uses the example of the prodigal son as an example that death is death.  The son is in a pigsty.  That's figurative death.  but then Zender claims that dead is dead and means the absence of life.  So don't go looking for resurrection in a pigsty.

But where does the son come to his senses?

15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
   17 "When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.' 20 So he got up and went to his father.

--Luke 15

In the pig sty!  He comes to his senses in the pig sty.

Zender proves himself wrong with his own example.

Nice.

[WhiteWings]

I know pigs are unclean animals. Is that it just a way to express he has sunken that deep or does pigs have  a deeper meaning?

[Glen]

Howdy all.

It could be used as a type, seeing the Lord mentioned let the dead bury their own dead in Matthew 8:22.
Just a thought.

Grace, Glen.

[CHB]

I am just curious to what you think about this video.  Zender obviously doesn't see things the way many of us do here concerning the LoF.  And he leaves the issue of the second death unresolved in this video.  What are your thoughts?

http://www.martinzender.com/crack_o_dawn/second_death.htm

I don't think I see this second death the same way Zender does.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Howdy all.

It could be used as a type, seeing the Lord mentioned let the dead bury their own dead in Matthew 8:22.
Just a thought.

Grace, Glen.

I've recently read that was about the custom of second burial.