The eternal search

[WhiteWings]

Whoops... translated aion wrong again. The search of my lifetime.

I'm looking with an open mind to all kind of views.
From 'fire and brimstone to annihilation to 'universalism.
I've read many articles on several/most doctrines.
All doctrines sound correct when you read about them. All have verses to support them.
But the one about 'fire and brimstone always had that 'something wrong' part to me.
'Love' is pasted in big red letters all across the Bible and the endresult is billions that end up in eternal torment.
But God give hash judgements like the flood or destruction of cities; so perhaps 'fire and brimstone' doen fit in the picture.
(always wondered what sins 3 month old babies committed...)

Anyway I sort of accidently ended op on the Tentmaker site. I've read many articles and I think I have a good impression Universalism now.
But I do have questions.... that's why I signed up to this forum.

May God have mercy on you...  (just kidding)

:NewB1:

[Taffy]

Hi and Welcome WW

There are more than just few members at Tent who would more than happy to aid you in your continual search  :icon_flower:

Blessings
Taffy

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi, whitewings,


Eternal Torment / separation / sorrow / various levels of hell / annihilation are variations of the same doctrine.   

Christians will often disagree that God sends anyone to this place or state of being by saying that  we will choose to go / be into that place / state.

When all else fails it is just said that we cannot understand Gods system of Justice because he is God and can do whatever he wants.


Most of that is semantics when it comes right down to it because it is placed into a human level of reasoning rather than solid scriptural background.

While I will be the first to say that the truth of any doctrine is not subject to the skill of the proponent for it, nor how reasonable it sounds.  We can all state our case and in fact at times our stated case can be debated on whether we have a point that is scripturally sound.

I believe that few people dig into scripture without having a reason to find the truth that is in it.   God allows people to believe in eternal torment all their lives, people are atheists all their lives, people are this and that denomination all their lives and so on and so forth.


But, as I study the concepts I have, the goals that most people reflect upon for their way of believing all comes down to a simple idea.

To go to a better place and exist in a better realm after we die.  Even the atheist is comfortable with his belief of non existance after death and the thought of eternal torture doesn't register as true at all. 

However, in all the world, there is really only one point of view that is pure, only one point of view that matters not who we are, what we are, what we can do, what we know, what we can offer, how nice we are, or anything that demands that we of our own strength do anything.

And that is the concept that within Gods time frame we will be drawn to him through  Christ and be reconciled unto God. God is the one that will empower us and strengthen us through grace and faith that is given to us by God himself. And our use of that grace and faith has nothing to do with any ability we can come up with on our own.


Within that concept there are many other factors of knowledge that can be studied and learned and within that concept there are different opinions and disagreements. But within that concept it says what no other can say and that the power that will achieve reconciliation with God is totally out of our control and ability to shape.

That personally is why I believe it to be true.

[WhiteWings]

Christians will often disagree that God sends anyone to this place or state of being by saying that  we will choose to go / be into that place / state.

I always found that a silly statement. Maybe there are millions that don't want eternal heavenly life because they like another lifestyle or something.
But that doesn't mean they really made a choice for eternal torment.

Most of that is semantics when it comes right down to it because it is placed into a human level of reasoning rather than solid scriptural background.

I partly agree with that. Even when studying openminded the brain tries to fit together all the info. Quite often that goes wrong. Just look for example at a math exam. Many diffrent answers are given but only one is correct. But that was because of lack of understanding and not because they want to change math rules.

[aspiring son]

I agree with all that Paul has said. Furthermore, there is one underlining purpose shown in the Bible ; in the very first few chapters, as God proclaims"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.......Gen1-26.

God is not and will not be a failure in what he proclaims. And if we "choose" to go to hell than we "choose" heaven. We don't need Christ. But God smashes the free will theory with the conversion of Paul.

And of course "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of truth." 1 Tim 2-4 and
" Delcaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL WILL STAND, AND I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE" Isaiah 46-10

Hell translated sheol simply means the state of the dead.

Hope this helps a little

[WhiteWings]

I'll end my short career in Christianity in the thread I started.
My posts are censored/deleted twice.
That's 2 times to many.

[redhotmagma]

What noooooooooooooo.  I have learned so much by reading your posts WhiteWings.  I don't know you at all but I feel like we're good friends.  Don't go.  Are you saying you're giving up on God?? Or just on TM?  I'll punch whoever censored you in the face if you want :laughing7:

[thinktank]

Your too smart to give up on God.

[jabcat]

I'll end my short career in Christianity in the thread I started.
My posts are censored/deleted twice.
That's 2 times to many.

Tony, I haven't heard of anything being censored or deleted at all in several weeks, much less any of yours.  What are you referring to?  Maybe something
else is going on?  James.

[jabcat]

I do see one post that was placed in the recycle bin by someone, I'd suppose one of the mods (Gary could as well, but I doubt he did).  We can ask who did so, and maybe you and that mod could discuss it in private through PM? 

[Taffy]

I'll end my short career in Christianity in the thread I started.
My posts are censored/deleted twice.
That's 2 times to many.

Tony, I haven't heard of anything being censored or deleted at all in several weeks, much less any of yours.  What are you referring to?  Maybe something
else is going on?  James.

:dontknow: :dontknow: :icon_flower:

[micah7:9]

Disappointment I am quite sure is only part of our learning process.  :bigGrin:

[Molly]

I'll end my short career in Christianity in the thread I started.
My posts are censored/deleted twice.
That's 2 times to many.

what?  yikes.  Don't leave, ww. :mshock:

[onlytruth]

White Wings...there are many new voices as of late, each will come to his or her own conclusion but I pray you will be accepting of them ,while we all grow with the new revelation God gives us.
In the same note, I hope we all give room to whitewings as he asks questions that may cause some to get the hairs on the back of their neck to stand up.
This is a season where God is giving some more understanding and as we press in, there will be questions that arise that need to be looked at closer ,since in these questions and comments there is truth to be revealed.
We need to give room for new views or ideas ,God won't be knocked of his throne!
What is not of God will be revealed,our religion must not get in the way.Our judgement must not get in the way.
Lets encourage each other
Blessings and I really hope ww you will stick around :icon_king:

[CHB]

So WW, this is why I haven't seen many of your posts lately. Am really sorry you are leaving.  :mshock:   Wish you would stick around. will miss you.  :HeartThrob: :bgdance:

CHB

[Cardinal]

 :sigh: NOOOOOOO........say it ain't so, WW.......is there a crying smiley on here?  :dontknow:

[Aleax]

I have no idea what's been going on and why it had to come to this, but well, stuff happens.

Anyway, I'd like to give you a big  :ty: for your contributions to the forum. I found many of your posts very useful.

[legoman]

I'm not sure what happened either WW, but let me say it was a pleasure getting to know you by reading your posts.  I found them very useful as well.

You will remain an enigma... the atheist who believes (or at least understands) universal salvation! 

[jabcat]

I've emailed Tony 3 times, but he has not responded about this.  He did send me some information about another matter (we email sometimes about a former member we both have contact with) but not a word about the forum. 

[shawn]

I'm not sure what happened either WW, but let me say it was a pleasure getting to know you by reading your posts.  I found them very useful as well.

You will remain an enigma... the atheist who believes (or at least understands) universal salvation!

WW is an atheist?  It dumbfounds me that he could have the depth of knowledge than many Christians do not have...as a nonbeliever.  Anyway you look at it, WW has been a true gem of the site.  I hope you reconsider.

[Aleax]

I'm not sure what happened either WW, but let me say it was a pleasure getting to know you by reading your posts.  I found them very useful as well.

You will remain an enigma... the atheist who believes (or at least understands) universal salvation!

WW is an atheist?  It dumbfounds me that he could have the depth of knowledge than many Christians do not have...as a nonbeliever.  Anyway you look at it, WW has been a true gem of the site.  I hope you reconsider.

He came here as an atheist, but I very much doubt he left as one. I remember him replying "I'm not sure if I have real faith, but if so, then yes" to the question "Is UR a paramount aspect of your faith?". Sounds to me he's more like an Agnostic Universalist. In other words: he's not fully convinced of God's existence, but he's convinced that if there indeed is a God, then UR is the truth.

(Just my impression, I may be wrong)

[WhiteWings]

I decided to give it another try on this Sabbath evening.
After reading all the above I need therapy to get rid of some vanity...

Flock you had a wolf in your midst without noticing it  :mblush:

[Nathan]

Love is even greater than the hungriest of wolves . . .

Not sure if you were suggesting yourself in that or not . . .but you were missed and as far as we're concerned . . .you belong here!!!!

[Molly]

Yes, yes, yes!!  Oddly enough I was just writing you this post, ww, claiming you were forcing me to confer with 18 year olds.  I thought maybe guilt would work.  :laughing7:  God is good.


The true story of the battle of Chernobyl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o

Radioactive fallout [from Chernobyl]... greater than 100 times the two combined bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

ww, if you would come back I might have someone to talk to about Japan.  As it is, most Christians don't seem to care much about the suffering in this world.  So now I must confer with the 18 year olds, who still care, and are willing to be witnesses.

[shawn]

I decided to give it another try on this Sabbath evening.
After reading all the above I need therapy to get rid of some vanity...

Flock you had a wolf in your midst without nothing it  :mblush:

Welcome back WW.   :bigGrin: