Multimillion-Dollar Ministries Investigated!

[Craig]

Reading these figures, makes me sick and it seems to finally caught the attention of someone in govermental power over finances. The Senator questions the tax exempt status for these 'non-profit' ministries. Read the letters! It is incredible the questions they ask!

http://grassley.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=15b0ac11-1321-0e36-ba95-dfc2c00db9c2&Month=11&Year=2007

[shibboleth]

I read the letter to the White's...a Bentley given to a minister is a write off? those cars cost around $240,000.00. That kind of money could feed, clothe, and house a lot of people.But, I really doubt anything will come of this. These people are good at what they do, and they will probably doctor the books so they can comply with IRS regulations.

Also, what about all the suckers out there who give to these clowns? They think they are going to be rich, just like their leaders. They think they will drive fancy cars and live in a mansion, but, the sad truth is, only the leaders get to live that way. The poor people, who give the money, go home to their average sized home and average paying job.

I hope and pray something is done to stop them, but, it seems as if they are crafty enough to get out of it. And let's face it, most of these TV preachers have never had any other job but ripping off people. They'd have to find out how the people they rip off live by working in gas stations, grocery stores, Walmart etc.

[pickr]

Reading these figures, makes me sick and it seems to finally caught the attention of someone in govermental power over finances. The Senator questions the tax exempt status for these 'non-profit' ministries. Read the letters! It is incredible the questions they ask!

Yeah. Almost as incredible as the corporate jets, mansions, jewelery, etc. It sure does seem excessive. All those "seeds" people plant for their future wealth add up to boatloads of cold, hard cash. I guess they have to spend it somewhere, eh?

Sadly, this phenomenon isn't unique to megachurches and TV ministries, even if they seem to be the poster children for the matter. Non-profits with tax-exempt status are a big business in the U.S., and the amounts of charitable giving that go to the compensation of top executives-- religious AND secular-- is often obscene, frankly.

I grew up in Akron, Ohio, where Rex Humbard (who just recently passed away) basically invented TV ministry in the 1950s. Went to school with his daughter, Liz, (a lovely girl, and very nice, too). The Humbards lived in a very nice home, and I'm sure Rex drew a nice salary. But nothing... nothing even close to the way things have become.

Thanks for linking to the article, Craig. Very interesting.

[GraceFull]

I recall a special NBC did exposing Benny Hinn's financial practices. NBC followed him to his crusades for three years with a hidden camera - the hidden camera being necessary after efforts to feature his ministry with interviews, etc. were met with refusals and hostiity. I, too, am uncomfortable with televangelists who abuse and prey on unsuspecting people, but there's also another extreme that bothers me, and that's those who believe that pastors should practically live in poverty. I am reminded of Ecclesiastes 5:18: "Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God."

[pickr]

...I, too, am uncomfortable with televangelists who abuse and prey on unsuspecting people, but there's also another extreme that bothers me, and that's those who believe that pastors should practically live in poverty.

That is certainly true, Gracefull. The pastor at my former church was one of the hardest workers I have ever known. Visiting the sick and the homebound, running the day-to-day activities of the church, preparing and delivering Sunday sermons... it all amounted to pretty much a 7-day a week job that he did his best to achieve in six. He was well compensated by many standards, I suppose, but there more than a few who (as you put it so well) believed that he should practically live in poverty.

As for the mega-church people, such as the Rev. Hinn, the whole issue is simply on another scale. I actually do appreciate that these organizations are immense, and to expect someone to run such huge enterprises for little or nothing makes little or no sense. The entirely subjective question, I suppose, is how much is too much?

Anyway, thanks for saying something that needed to be said.

[Craig]

I recall a special NBC did exposing Benny Hinn's financial practices. NBC followed him to his crusades for three years with a hidden camera - the hidden camera being necessary after efforts to feature his ministry with interviews, etc. were met with refusals and hostiity. I, too, am uncomfortable with televangelists who abuse and prey on unsuspecting people, but there's also another extreme that bothers me, and that's those who believe that pastors should practically live in poverty. I am reminded of Ecclesiastes 5:18: "Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God."

I have been in the ministry for 25 years as a pastor's son. My father has been pastor for 25 years, and I agree. Pastor's should not live in poverty. Are you going to tell me a love gift required of all the pastors in attendance totalling over $2 million dollars to Kenneth Copeland into his personal pocket for his 40th Anniversy would be extreme. The guy has over $20 million in assets!!!!

[Craig]

The entirely subjective question, I suppose, is how much is too much?

When the poorest person in your congregation, due to circumstances (beyond laziness) starves or is booted out and you as a minister have more and do not help this person, you have too much.

The standard of any minister should be the average of his congregation. There will be rich people who show up, there will be poor people who show up. If the rich person wants to give a million dollars out his pocket to gift the pastor, that is fine.If the poor must collect a million out of their pockets to give to the pastor, that is not fine.

Explain why Kenneth Copeland Ministries got a loan from his wife Gloria for $1,000,000 when the assets of the ministry are over $20 millioin? Then repaide her at almost 40% interest! Who paid that $400 000 in interest charges?

It takes common sense. All these ministers hide behind the 'law' of the land. They say, as John Hagee in a recent interview, "My finances are all upfront and legal with all tax laws, I have nothing to hide." Except the fact his salary is over $1 million dollars, and most of his viewership is in Africa and India, which suffers some of the worst poverty levels in the world. Yea, he has nothing to hide and is found legal among the law, but God knows the intentions and he sees what happens behind the doors.

A pastor should not be in need, if he is taking care of his congregations needs, but he should not be in excess if his congregation has problems surviving.

[firstborn888]

Unfortunately the entire TBN system is corrupt. It just needs to be exposed, fall, etc. A great waste of time and resources.
- byron

[reFORMer]

There are sooooooo many rich people in the world.  The greater majority of people in the USA are so much better off than 50 years ago, even much more so than 75 years ago, and so on.  If someone little known to you drives a Bentley or lives in a palace, what is that to you?  You really should follow Jesus for yourself.  The questioning congressman has to do with non-profits and tax exemptions.  The government gives tax exemptions to donors to this sort of organizations because it expects it's own social welfare burden to be lessened.  Also it is hoped that society will continue to be uplifted by the activity of religion in such areas as morality, lessening criminal activity which is very expensive, and education, the arts, and so on, rather than by direct subsidies.  There are involved rules for non-profits to follow.  The donors and those who receive their donations are to engage responsibly in this participation with the civil government.  Hopefully this particular senator and those with him, so soon after the appointment of a new Attorney General, are not attempting to define for us, or worse, hurt what they consider to be Christianity.

The mass of religious people in the USA today walk unquestioning into this relationship with the government.  Is the Church to come out and be separate from the world?  While an oversimplification, is it fair to say Institutional Christianity is Mystical Babylon?  For the real Church to be called non-profit is dragons breath.  It is the most profit generating enterprise on earth!  As the body of Christ and members in particular why would we want to become entangled with the affairs of this present world order?  Personal involvement with those we as individuals or a church group are donating to is to participate in the life motive within us and those we help.  I cannot say absolutely God is not in more institutional giving; but, it seems for most us, as we mature in following the leading of the spirit more personal giving and participation in one another's life becomes the way we give.  Let those who can in good conscience afford to donate to any of the wonderful organizations helping people that are non-profits.  Let the Church be free from such entanglements.  Give to one another as there is need and do our duty to the IRS.

Following is an excerpt from something I wrote concerning Babylon I think is very appropriate to post here.

Jesus took no part in any institutions of men. He wasn't born to the priests caste. He was not a Pharisee, nor a Sadducee, nor a Herodian. He didn't try to reform the Roman Empire either. He wasn't a Caesar, nor a senator, nor any earthly king among the political systems of His day. He came as an individual who God was with. It was in the setting of Israel.

Paul also, in the first "oracles of God" to be written in almost half a millennia, in the first letter written after a man achieved victory over death, says he is an "apostle (not from men, neither through a man..." (Ga 1:1) He was not a product of any group nor did he represent any group of men. He was not ordained of men nor mentored by a man. He says, "When it delights God...to unveil His Son in me...I did not immediately submit it to flesh and blood, neither came I up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me..." and goes further in saying he didn't go where the move of God was happening, where men who were qualified by walking with the incarnation Himself for 3 1/2 years. He says he went the opposite direction, "away into Arabia..." (Ga 1:15-17) In case we don't understand the Spirit's take on authority, Paul goes further to say, "Now from those reputed to be somewhat--what kind they once were is of no consequence to me (God is not taking up the human aspect)--for to me those of repute submitted (or,added) nothing." (Ga 2:6) Well wouldn't you know it, he has to darn the hole with an iron thread! He brags about how he, "withstood [Cephas] to the face..." (Ga 2:11) The only authority in the Church which is His body is Jesus present as the Holy Spirit. The true servants of God connect us to the Head and secure and enlarge that connection. Rather than the Holy Spirit giving them to lead the people, they give people over to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Whether it's priests renamed as pastors, which the Lutheran pietists began in the late 1500's, or what in practice is a local Pope ("papa") in a "neighborhood Bible study," these are another "Headship" than the presence of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. The ground of the Church is our basis for meeting, flowing with the other brethren in ministry.  Meet as a body for Christ without human headship.  What "Lordship" is to our individual life, "Headship" is to our corporate life.  Consider the following verses (1 Cor 14:24-26) describing the normal "round table" structure meeting as God's mandate:  "Now if all should be prophesying, yet some unbeliever or plain person be entering, he is being exposed by all, he is being examined by all.  The hidden things of his heart are becoming apparent, and thus, falling on his face, he will be worshiping God, reporting that God really is among [within, pl.] you.  What, then, is it brethren?  Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation.  Let all occur toward edification."  What is expressed should be publicly critiqued or judged, on the spot. (v.29)  "Yet if it should be revealed to another sitting by, let the first hush, for you can all be prophesying one by one, that all may be learning and all be consoled." (1 Cor 14:30-31)

Many unthinkingly confuse the civil sphere of authority with "earthly religious systems heirarchy."  This confusion is at the heart of Babylon's stronghold in many minds.  They believe a church is just another institution run by an elite group of men.  They seem unable to believe in the presence of the Holy Spirit sent in Jesus name, God Himself to be intimate with us, leading us in our gatherings Himself.  We prevent whoever would take over the meetings from doing so to honor the Headship of Christ.  Meet without human headship.  The etymology of Babel through the Hebrew balal is "to stir up, to confound" or, as many have it, "confusion."  There is a living God who is present with living people.  That is the Church.  There also are religious governments of this world that have no existence of themselves, only in the minds of men.  I maintain only God should occupy that place in us or have that relationship with us, the relationship we've given to religious systems, whatever they're called , and only as examples:  Baptist or Roman Catholic, some independent local fellowship or anything of the sort.  Do you realize no one can speak with any such thing as the American Baptist Church or the Roman Catholic Church?  Yow cannot locate such an entity.  They have no ears and no mouth.  Just like idols.  The people in these things all get replaced yet the system remains.  The people are completely other than the ones who were using them as a reason for what we're supposed to do or believe, say 200 years ago.  God and His Word is our authority for faith and practice, not a religious establishment and it's traditions.  They obviously aren't the Kingdom of God or everyone outside any specific one couldn't be walking with God.  Those who should be God's bride who instead have intimate intercourse with Institutional Christianity are Mystical Babyon.

Babylon's meaning is found in Biblical history.  The people of God, who He formed as an holy nation of priests, were judged for "whoredoms" with other nations, rather than trusting in their God; and  served other gods, who were no gods.  They gave not to God His sabbaths from their time in the land, so He collected by condemning them to 70 years exile in Babylon.  This was the head of gold of the alternative image to the Image and Likeness of God He's purposed for His own.  It was the image of the world and the head was a Man, King  Nebuchanezer.  The priestly was subjectected to a political entity.  This is what those born of God are called out of today.  They're captive to a bureaucratic intrusion, poitical heirarchies, rather than functioning as priests between God and man themselves by the direct leading of the Holy Spirit.  Then, only 1 out of 7 of the Priesthood retuned to the city of God to build the temple of God.  We are God's priestly nation today.  How many are coming out of religious systems to build a living temple?  "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rv 18:4)

I would that more of His children realized people and authority systems constructed in their minds are two different things.  Yet, there is a cumulative effect from living our lives according to something or the lack of something, even when it is not a situation chosen by ourselves.  "Feral children," raised without proper nurture from other people, except for God's miracles, can be permanently atrophied in their capacity to be fully human.  An animal taken from it's natural habitat, fed and cared for so as to become "domesticated," when returned to where it belongs will see it as all wrong and may even die from an inability to get it's own food.  This is what has happened to the children of God.  If they sense something is wrong they just search for another leader who dispenses a different mix of food, not thinking to feed themselves.  To go on to feed others is unthinkable in most venues unless you're the "shepherd."  Continuing in this animalistic vein, whether many recognize it or not, I'm not the "wolf in sheep's clothing" that you'll discover others like me to be accused of being.  It is not anarchism to commend the kingdom of God, Who is Living and Present.  My relation to those in Institutional Christianity I identify as David related to Saul.  He regarded Saul as anointed of the LORD and wouldn't raise his hand against him. I hope I can maintain a similar integrity.  Yet simultaneously, concerning the ultimate destruction of Mystical Babylon, we must align with Revelation 18:20 "Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her."


---James Rohde

[Craig]

What are you trying to say Reformer?

[reFORMer]

(In the book of Revelation) the first beast is political and the second beast is religious.  We must leave Egypt (the world) and also return from the captivity to Babylon (religious systems.)  The Church and Babylon are often confused.  We need to come out of the Mother of Whores and also get out of bed with the civil government.  Instead of Institutional Christianity we need to follow Jesus, specially when we meet.  Instead of Incorporating at all we should just pay taxes (keeping civil government out of the Church's affairs.)  For many, Church is being an audience for a preacher.  Through media exposure they pay the message that tickles their ears.  We can walk under the anointing only inasmuch as we are directly subject to our Head Jesus Who is the only mediator.  We need to meet that way without human headship, every member participating.  I'm so burning with this I could go on and on.

---James

[Reverend G]

The situation can be atrocious, and is one of the reason's I will not start a church.  Even the considered taint of "non-profit" status overwhelms me.  The worst thing about this "pseudo-christianity" raking in the dough is that it breeds imitation.  On late night television, I see "ministers" of all types offering to pray for people to get, of all things, money.  Sort of reminds me of "lord won't you buy me a mercedes-benz".

[Sarah]

We can walk under the anointing only inasmuch as we are directly subject to our Head Jesus Who is the only mediator.  We need to meet that way without human headship, every member participating.

:thumbsup:

[Kratos]

I have pastored many times and always apostled the works so was able to set the salary. I always put in the bylaws that the pastor would receive the same as the average in the congregation. I have never heard anyone else say this until on this thread. Every quarter, the board averaged the income of the tithing members so they could know their income and set my income right in the middle. This way, if the Lord prospered the body, I would prosper too. But, if things got hard, I would not be untouched by it or out of touch with what the others were experiencing. Of course, those were the days when I believed in one-man pastor rule.

John

[Craig]

I have pastored many times and always apostled the works so was able to set the salary. I always put in the bylaws that the pastor would receive the same as the average in the congregation. I have never heard anyone else say this until on this thread. Every quarter, the board averaged the income of the tithing members so they could know their income and set my income right in the middle. This way, if the Lord prospered the body, I would prosper too. But, if things got hard, I would not be untouched by it or out of touch with what the others were experiencing. Of course, those were the days when I believed in one-man pastor rule.

John

I am not against ministries being supported by their congregation. Even Paul was not.

Here is how I know.

1 Corinthians 9:7-12
This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. Don't we have the right to food and drink? Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas[a]? Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?

Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?

1 Timothy 5:17-18
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

How much grain does an ox eat compared to the multitude the harvest feeds? How many grapes does one who plants the vineyard eat? How much is a share in the harvest? How much is the wage of the worker of the field?

Matthew 20:9-10
"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.

The Average! The same as anyone else.

[SeekerSA]

If I may comment here.

If a pastor serves his flock like a doctor does and is on call literally 24/7 to meet the spiritual needs of the flock, be it just someone who is a shoulder to cry on etc. then he is worthy of his/her wages.

However, what we see mostly is pastors involved with other things during the week, neglecting simple things like visitation etc. we see these are the ones who have a 1/7th ministry and usually are the ones with the big salaries.

I have heard some say they are teachers not pastors and that is in direct contradiction to the word.  We all should care for one another and carry out visitation but in our busy world, pastors are full-time and should in all respects represent that of the congregation.  As for teaching the pastor's role should be no more than a guide and should allow interaction by members but we all know members are lazy and want to be spoon fed.

The monster is created and fueled by man and the few pastors abuse the situation instead of correcting the flock.

So what I am saying, no one stands innocent of charges.  In SA we do not have tax benefits except for supporting registered charities and even that is way less than 10%, not even 1%.  Most pastors here have their ministries registered as a business so as to benefit the maximum of the tax benefits of self employed businessmen.

Blessings