One way or another

[Beloved Servant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab_IE_eXyTQ


Realize Beloved,
That if the carnal mind (satan) can not trap you into the sins of Adam, which are appetite, avarice and ambition; than that spirit will engage you into the cares of the world and snare you there, instead.

If it's not sin — than the world.

[micah7:9]

"That if the carnal mind (satan)" BelovedServant


Is that not an assumption or theory, that the carnal mind is "satan?" Is there biblical proof that the carnal mind is something other that the very workings of and in man as he performs?
Adam had a carnal mind, and used it to name the species; Adam had a carnal mind, to know that he was without the proper helpmeet.
Adam had a carnal mind and he named the woman Eve, the mother of all living.
To assume that the carnal mind is the adversary(satan) is not a sound teaching, is it?

[Cardinal]

 :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

Adam had not a carnal mind.

Adam represents the spirit of all man, Eve is open to attack!

[PaoloNuevo]

While I know we have to resist the devil and put on the whole armor of God.

(Eph. 6: 12) ... I think it will serve us more to be God conscious than Satan conscious...

[Aleax]

I don't believe Satan is just the carnal mind.

The collective carnal mind of humanity went go to see God to make a bet about Job?  :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

 :thumbsup:

[lightningfrommymouth]

Realize Beloved,
That if the carnal mind (satan) can not trap you into the sins of Adam, which are appetite, avarice and ambition; than that spirit will engage you into the cares of the world and snare you there, instead.

If it's not sin — than the world.
[/quote]
i
I was around 5 when this song came out. I still know the lyrics. :)

I have a saying I tell my children. "If you want to see the Devil, look in the mirror." Harsh? Maybe. What my intentions are with that is to teach them that God gave us ---. The presence of a Devil or Satan would take away that ----. Instead, they are learning that every human has to fight against their ego, dark place or whatever you want to call it. My understanding is that the apple in Eden represented knowledge. When knowledge was chosen, ego was let in-and our separation from God began. It's why evil happens in the world. It is humans who use their ---- to commit evil, to not feed their brother, who harm children-not a dark presence working on our hearts. All just my understanding-it's what rings true to me.

As a future pastor I see my job as a servant is to help people fight against that ego, and bring them closer with God through prayer and fellowship.

[lightningfrommymouth]

I wanted to revise something. I believe angels are real-they are God's messengers. I found an interesting article that I am still process, and thought I would share here.

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

[WhiteWings]

I wanted to revise something. I believe angels are real-they are God's messengers. I found an interesting article that I am still process, and thought I would share here.

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

I like that article.
Rabbi's often give polite and detailed answers. Unlike many Christian teachers who often have a judgemental undertone in their replies.

[Nathan]

Realize Beloved,
That if the carnal mind (satan) can not trap you into the sins of Adam, which are appetite, avarice and ambition; than that spirit will engage you into the cares of the world and snare you there, instead.

If it's not sin — than the world.

i
I was around 5 when this song came out. I still know the lyrics. :)

I have a saying I tell my children. "If you want to see the Devil, look in the mirror." Harsh? Maybe. What my intentions are with that is to teach them that God gave us ---. The presence of a Devil or Satan would take away that ----. Instead, they are learning that every human has to fight against their ego, dark place or whatever you want to call it. My understanding is that the apple in Eden represented knowledge. When knowledge was chosen, ego was let in-and our separation from God began. It's why evil happens in the world. It is humans who use their ---- to commit evil, to not feed their brother, who harm children-not a dark presence working on our hearts. All just my understanding-it's what rings true to me.

As a future pastor I see my job as a servant is to help people fight against that ego, and bring them closer with God through prayer and fellowship.
[/quote]

There's a prophetic passage in the Old Testament that states the time will come when our weapons will be turned into plowshares . . .for me . . that's much like what you just stated here about fighting against our carnality within (egos).  As we grow and mature in him, we sorta evolve from warfare in debates and carnal desires and such, to plowshares . . .the planting of life within our minds that birth understanding of his nature in our lives.  And God uses two major ships to usher these things in . . .first is relationSHIP with God who is the one from revelation flows of the nature of Christ, the hope of glory.  The second is worSHIP through which he ushers us into the tabernacle of his presence, (outercourt)  ministry (inner court/holy place)  and intimacy (holy of holies).

Leading others into the Rest of the Father in Christ is where weapons no longer are affective as they become planters of life-seeds in the wombs (minds) of us and others through the birthing of his nature in all of us.  Christ didn't come in warfare, he came IN Peace.  His presence may create warfare amongst the minds of men, but he himself is the Prince of Peace whcih is a realm of Rest . . .he is ALL of it.

[Cardinal]

 :thumbsup:

[lightningfrommymouth]

"Leading others into the Rest of the Father in Christ is where weapons no longer are affective as they become planters of life-seeds in the wombs (minds) of us and others through the birthing of his nature in all of us.  Christ didn't come in warfare, he came IN Peace.  His presence may create warfare amongst the minds of men, but he himself is the Prince of Peace whcih is a realm of Rest . . .he is ALL of it."

Oh...I like that. Thank you for sharing. :)

[Nathan]

Yeah, God led me to be a pastor a little over 8 years ago now.  I was totally what I call a traditionalist when I first came in . . .all that means is I was a great supporter of all of the traditional perspectives of church doctrines and such.  But a year into it, I led our church into a 40 day fast with the intent of waiting upon the Lord for his direction for our church.  At the time, I "thought" I was merely praying for direction for "that year" but 2 weeks after the fast had ended . . .that was when everything I thought I believed started to deteriorate and be demolished.  Over the course of the last 7 years, the things I see now don't even resemble the things I used to embrace.

Be prepared for a radical change inwardly as you prepare your ministry outwardly.  We're in the day where the Father is pulling out all of the stops . . .the knowledge of the Lord is covering the earth as the waters cover the sea . . .and it's nothing like what the church has been projecting God to be at all.  God isn't going to do away with the church, it's just that he's going to revolutionize it.  When he's done, she'll be the bride he's called forth for her to be.

And now we're a part of that.  Exciting stuff.

[Molly]

Be prepared for a radical change inwardly as you prepare your ministry outwardly.  We're in the day where the Father is pulling out all of the stops . . .the knowledge of the Lord is covering the earth as the waters cover the sea . . .and it's nothing like what the church has been projecting God to be at all.  God isn't going to do away with the church, it's just that he's going to revolutionize it.  When he's done, she'll be the bride he's called forth for her to be.

wow.  I hope you're right.  All I see myself is two extremes--all religions are welcome in the Christian church OR  my way or the highway.

I wish churches could be more like this board.

[Nathan]

Unfortunately Molly, men have built vast palaces of belief systems and they've reinforced those castles with great moats and armored walls that, much like this other Christian forum we've been talking about on another thread, they've spent all their attenting reinforcing what their minds have constructed that they've lost the softness of God's true voice.  When we use facts against facts, all it becomes is an unwinable battle.  But when we declare what we see through faith, it's the same affect that we see with Jerico.  They didn't use weapons and stone throwers to break down the massive walls, they simply walked in faith and obedience, that's all that's expected of us now as well.

And these people who become defiant against what we see, they are God's people to, so let him deal with them.  When I read the posts on the other forum, when I look in the eyes of those who reject who I am now, who we all are .. . the only word that comes to mind is violence.  We create fear in those around us not just because of what "we" believe, but because we "might" convince someone else what we're seeing is true and right.

But the evidence of his presence in us is not in the form of violence.  Our message is one of celebration, of peace and in love.  Then where does the violence come from?  The minds in men.  Remember, the carnal mind can not comprehend the true nature of God.  So when it encounters that nature in others, the knee-jerk response is to attack and kill it.  "That's" what you're seeing on this other forum.  They're swarming all right, but it's because they truly can't see, they have eyes, but can't see because their minds are the veil that is still intact.  Lose the mind, you remove the veil.  Lay down the proof, you'll find your faith.

Matthew 11
12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

This is what we've been seeing . . .but this to will see it's end.

Revelation 21
Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

A millstone is a tool used to grind up grain into flour . . .it's a form, a picture of labor . . .connected to the state of man . . .6 days were set aside for labor.  6 is the number of man . . .but when the 7th day comes, the millstone, the identity of labor will be swallowed up in the sea, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea . . .sea also represents humanity, but as dense as humanity is, (pun kinda intended) as dense as the water in the sea is, knowledge will be even greater . .and not head knowledge, but "intimacy" . . .to know is to bring intimacy that leads to birthing.

This great city "Babylon" is not about a literal city and it's not about literal people, it's about the Babylon within men . . .remove the Babylon within men, you will see the great castles and kingdoms of relgion removed as well.

[micah7:9]

Amen.

[lightningfrommymouth]

Yeah, God led me to be a pastor a little over 8 years ago now.  I was totally what I call a traditionalist when I first came in . . .all that means is I was a great supporter of all of the traditional perspectives of church doctrines and such.  But a year into it, I led our church into a 40 day fast with the intent of waiting upon the Lord for his direction for our church.  At the time, I "thought" I was merely praying for direction for "that year" but 2 weeks after the fast had ended . . .that was when everything I thought I believed started to deteriorate and be demolished.  Over the course of the last 7 years, the things I see now don't even resemble the things I used to embrace.

Be prepared for a radical change inwardly as you prepare your ministry outwardly.  We're in the day where the Father is pulling out all of the stops . . .the knowledge of the Lord is covering the earth as the waters cover the sea . . .and it's nothing like what the church has been projecting God to be at all.  God isn't going to do away with the church, it's just that he's going to revolutionize it.  When he's done, she'll be the bride he's called forth for her to be.

And now we're a part of that.  Exciting stuff.

Thank you for sharing Nathan. I'm fascinated by hearing from other pastors right now, since besides my family most of my focus is on this.  I've felt the calling since I was 3. I think I needed to grow up, and experience life first to make me a better pastor. After much prayer and what I feel has been revealed to me....I think any church I'm a pastor of will indeed be very different from tradition. Like my own kids have, I am very excited at the thought of a generation of children growing up in the CU tradition. I'm preparing myself, and excited for the revolution! :)

[Nathan]

In that light, please understand my responses to topics such as angels, devils and demons is ALL DIMENSIONAL.  There are dimensions to the tabernacle which is a type and shadow of Christ . .because . .there are dimensions to God . . .tabernacle is outercourt 1st dimension . . .holy place, 2nd dimension and holy of holies, 3rd dimension . . .As it is with God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost . .. so when I see Scripture speaking about angels, demons and devils . .taking it literally , for me, is only the 1st dimension . . .there's much more going on in the things of Scripture than just what lies on the surface.  I personally make great effort to lay down the literal and hover over the face of the deep (unknown) as the Spirit ascends, so with it comes illumination of what lies beneath the surface.

So when we see the breaking down of word definitions, I use them as tools to lead to the spiritual implications rather than reinforcing the literal issues at hand . . .that's kind of the difference with me . . .I've learned MUCH from this board and there's way more to experience than even now what my limited mind can comprehend.