Wy were the ancient Hebrews, 'the chosen people"?

[Taffy]

As topics  seem to be few and far between- this has been floating around the Web with many different answers  :mshock:

For mine the Pattern takes us Right back to the Garden and the MOTHER of ALL living :icon_flower:

Shoot
:icon_flower:

[thinktank]

I think because God throughout the bible makes it clear that he likes to give Himself credit for the creation and works He does and not give it to man. So instead of choosing a strong and powerful nation such as Egypt, He chooses a weak group of badly treated slaves. These slaves proved their trustworthyness by crying out to God, something that very few, probably no other culture did. Just like when USA cried out to God and did not look to the strength of man or goverments to deliver them from recession (hint) and became a great nation, God also delivered the Hebrews because of their cries to Him and God respects the prayers of people, who cry to the true eloihim.

[micah7:9]

Hebrew... from the primitive root  H5674 ‛âbar A primitive root; to cross over; as then and as now He has chosen a people  to "CROSS OVER." All of my walk since the Lord began to draw this vessel, He has aways caused a crossing over. ***See history in Bible.*** Jordan, as I understand means to decend, to go down. And it is from this decending that He draws His chosen people up, to cross over.
At least that is how it has been given me to understand, yes for sure, only in part.

[jabcat]

I honestly didn't know, but all answers so far make sense to me.  Though often disobedent, they believed and called on YHWH, and the "crossing over" seems sound.   :thumbsup:

[Taffy]

Hebrew... from the primitive root  H5674 ‛âbar A primitive root; to cross over; as then and as now He has chosen a people  to "CROSS OVER." All of my walk since the Lord began to draw this vessel, He has aways caused a crossing over. ***See history in Bible.*** Jordan, as I understand means to decend, to go down. And it is from this decending that He draws His chosen people up, to cross over.
At least that is how it has been given me to understand, yes for sure, only in part.

Good Post Micah - :icon_flower:   :thumbsup:

but of the question :icon_flower:

[micah7:9]

This is very interesting. I have wondered about this many times. Also that the only time "chosed people" is used  together is Dan. 11:15 makes one wonder why today people (at least myself) have considered the Jews, the Hebrews, the Israelites the chosen people; when in Revelation
Rev 2:9  I have known thy works, and tribulation, and poverty--yet thou art rich--and the evil-speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but are a synagogue of the Adversary.
Rev 3:9  lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; lo, I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.
Yes, I for one find the "chosen people" to be somewhat of a mystery. But then again its just me.

[thinktank]

I think a true Jew is one who does God will. Some Jews in Jesus day claimed to follow God because Abraham was their father, but Jesus rebuked them and said if Abraham was your father you would belive in me, for the scriptures testify of me.

Aso some prophet prophesy falsely, and they will say I am nothing, but a sheperdman and they will humble themselves, perhaps they will come to the true prophets as in REV 3:9 and humble before them and admit that they were false dreamers but these true prophets shall be exalted.

[Molly]

We are talking about the elect here, because chosen means elect [also selected, appointed].

God tells us himself why he chose ancient Israel.


6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

--Deut 7

[jabcat]

Good find, Molly.  I don't mean to re-write the OP, but then doesn't a question become "why did God love Israel to the point of having them be the chosen people"?  We see that they were the chosen people because God loved them.  But why? 

Maybe we can't know this.  But again, I think of the fact that they looked to and called on YHWH God while others were chasing idols.    But then I also think of the idea that God does the calling and choosing, and later on in the NT we're told that we love Him because He first loved us.   :thinking:

[WhiteWings]

I think of the fact that they looked to and called on YHWH God while others were chasing idols.

If God doesn't reveal Himself to other nations, those nations will invent their own idols.

[jabcat]

yep, which ties into this - "But then I also think of the idea that God does the calling and choosing, and later on in the NT we're told that we love Him because He first loved us."

So I wonder if we can truly know why God chose Israel/why He loved them that much.  It may be a mystery we won't have resolved for us until we can see more of the bigger picture (i.e., when He tells us later on).   :2c:

Did they earn it?  Did they deserve it?  Is it back to the pre-existence discussion, that they "volunteered", or agreed, or were even chosen by lot?  Dunno.   :dunno2:

Maybe there's some scrips "hidden" somewhere that tell us more about it, but I don't know of 'em.  But I'm not an "OT guy" - maybe someone else better equipped can find them.

[Molly]

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

When I first read this years ago, I had no idea what it meant.  What was this relationship between belief and righteousness that Abram illustrated?  Those two words seemed to have no relationship at all to me.

I now understand that without Christ, you cannot believe.  Abram had Christ, the faith of Christ.  And, this was the source and the proof of whatever righteousness could be accounted to him because only Christ is righteous.

Later, Paul would talk about how Abraham had paid a tithe to Melchizedek on behalf of all those to come who were in his loins.  This again,is the idea of God looking ahead to the outcome which is Christ.

We see after the tower of Babel that God puts the princes [demigods] over the nations as punishment for them worshipping these other gods, but Israel he keeps for himself.  This is the first clear idea of God calling a people out for himself, set apart from the nations, and chosen  by the grace of God.  We see both the Old and New Testaments echo this same thought regarding God's set apart people.


4Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

--Exodus 19


One of my more recent joys has been to more clearly see that Jesus is all over the Old Testament, hiding in plain sight.  It is Jesus who calls out the set apart ones.

I am now reading a book called 'Ancient Near Eastern Themes in Biblical Theology.'  The premise of the book is that God was communicating the same things to all the surrounding cultures of the ancient Israelites, but in not so clear a fashion.  Hence we see religious themes which show that other cultures knew of the same God that we serve. 

But, he has called us out for his own, not as a particular type or race, but as a nation of priests.  This is a function which I believe we will serve forever because the Melchizedek priesthood is based on the premise of eternal life.

[jabcat]

I like it.   :thumbsup:  The "other cultures" info would explain some things, wouldn't it?

I see thread you're pulling out, woven within the scriptures.  That's certainly good for my faith.

Any ideas on "why", or are we still digging at "it was/is"?  What do you think of my pre-existence options proposal?

[Molly]

The other cultures thing is amazing.  They knew of the God who is the shepherd/king.

The 'pre-existence' thing I have to give more thought to.  He clearly says I knew you before...

It's not reincarnation, because the person he knew before is the person standing before him now.  It's more the idea of incarnation.

So I'll listen to those discussions...

Don't you ever sleep? rofl

[jabcat]

yes, during the daytime. :)

I don't know for sure either, like i said earlier in the week, i just see reasons why it could be, and i think i also probably would like to believe it.  it would "explain" some things for me and fill in some gaps where my faith is too weak and my attitude too bad...

(you're up too)

[Taffy]

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

:icon_flower:
Christ would be born through perfect Lineage -
FIRST THE NATURAL, then the SPIRITUAL

It stems from  Eve  whos first born Cain is after the Natural Man , the second Born is the One of Promise ,the righteous ,shown through Abel\seth- [Instead of   this patterns exist through out scrpture - Esau [ Natural Man] -Jacob-[ spiritual man ]  as In first the Natural then the spiritual -This again is shown through The Isralites after the Natural Man , The promise being recieved By those of Faith-[ Spiritual Jew] The Gentiles - The Lord works through Types, shadows and Patterns -

Gal 4:28   Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 


Gal 4:29   But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now. 


Gal 4:30   Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 


Gal 4:31   So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

furthermore , through such Lineage  THEN comes Noah [ perfect in his generations through to Abraham]

Divine authorty IS 12 + 1+ 1= 14  --------  3 X14 ------3 Being the number of ONENESS

Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.  :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Blessings :icon_flower:

[CHB]

Here is an article titled "How We Were Chosen". Read especially from the middle on downward, it explains how Israel was chosen.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess034.htm

CHB

[Molly]

Here is an article titled "How We Were Chosen". Read especially from the middle on downward, it explains how Israel was chosen.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess034.htm

CHB

We won the Divine Lottery?  :mshock:

wow!

[Taffy]

Here is an article titled "How We Were Chosen". Read especially from the middle on downward, it explains how Israel was chosen.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess034.htm

CHB

We won the Divine Lottery?  :mshock:

wow!

Amen so did Matthias

Rom 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's in the old writings that HaShem asked all the peoples of the earth if they would walk in His ways, and only the Hebrews said they would.  :dontknow:

[Molly]

Here's the thing though.

If we are chosen, then we are chosen as we are.

Psalm 82:5
"The 'gods' know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

But we have been chosen to walk in good works.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
--Eph 2

So, for the Christian, it is not a matter of dissolving the 'ego' into the nothingness of a Buddha or a Hindu, but it is a coming to repentence and the maturity of the I-Thou relationship with God which allows us to come into obedience unto the works which he has prepared for us beforehand.

The Christian very much sees himself as a unique individual in relationship with God, unlike all the other religions of the world.

[CHB]

Here is an article titled "How We Were Chosen". Read especially from the middle on downward, it explains how Israel was chosen.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess034.htm

CHB

We won the Divine Lottery?  :mshock:

wow!

I always dreamed of winning the lottery not realizing I had already won the biggest jackpot of all time.  :myahoo:

CHB

[micah7:9]

Its hard for me to understand even phantom how you all with all your intellegence and insight preceive that natural Israel today is the chosen people, or that the Hebrews are the chosen people, and attempt to prove it.
Blood of a baby comes from the FATHER, yes the mother and father both make the DNA and type, but the blood comes from the Father. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father.
Yes Jesus was born into the lineage of the Hebrew and Israel, its prophecy; but He is of the Father.
And Gal 3:28  there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female, for all ye are one in Christ Jesus;
This is what Jesus is teaching  Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
The realm, we who have ears to hear walk in, is the Spirit. This is important to understand it is a "new thing" that the is doing Isa 43:19  Lo, I am doing a new thing, now it springeth up, Do ye not know it? Yea, I put in a wilderness a way, In a desolate place--floods.
Jos 3:4  only, a distance is between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure; ye do not come near unto it, so that ye know the way in which ye go, for ye have not passed over in the way heretofore.'
We are to understand first the natural and then the spiritual, we have the Words of the Bible of the natual Israel, we are the Spiritual Israel. 
1Pe 2:9 Yet you are a chosen race, a "royal priesthood,a "holy nation,a procured people, so that you should be recounting the virtues of Him Who calls you out of darkness into His marvelous light,
1Pe 2:10 who once were "not a people yet now are the people of God, who "have not enjoyed mercy,yet now are "being shown mercy."
That "you" are a chosen race, is those born again, Christ in you(us) the hope of glory.

I love Jesus My Lord and I love all of you. Peace and Love Through Jesus. :bigGrin:

[thinktank]

:cloud9: It's in the old writings that HaShem asked all the peoples of the earth if they would walk in His ways, and only the Hebrews said they would.  :dontknow:

Interesting -- I was just about to say that God did not reveal himself to the other nations because they were not interested in Him and prefered other Gods. Even Israel most of the time abandoned God for other gods. I think God made the most of what he could work with at that time, until the mesiiah would come, and the messiah would bring people back to God and his blood gives us access to the heavens, wheareas before Christ, reaching God was a painful and labarous process, that most people could not be bothered with, a bit like the Internet, in the begiining it was only available to nerds and those who had knowledge, but now the Internet is available and acessible even for the elderly who generally hate computer related things.
:2c:

[Taffy]

Its hard for me to understand even phantom how you all with all your intellegence and insight preceive that natural Israel today is the chosen people, or that the Hebrews are the chosen people, and attempt to prove it.

:icon_flower:

Micah It was shown In Type as per the Pattern - first the Natural - then the spiritual
One doesnt become a SPIRITUAL Gentile- we Become SPIRITUAL  Jews  :icon_flower:

Rom 2:28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 


Rom 2:29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.


Scripture notes OLD jerusalem as Being as sodom and Gommarah - again after the Natural - old man- Flesh ]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which""""""" spiritually""""""" is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

so No the Natural Nation Known as Israel are NOT the Chosen people of today  :icon_flower:

Blessings