God's Dealings With Us

[jabcat]

Besides the obvious answers - saved by grace, Jesus' death and resurrection bringing us salvation - DOES GOD DEAL WITH MANKIND DIFFERENTLY SINCE THE CROSS?

A few related thoughts;

OT dealings were often "direct", God speaking to people audibly, burning bush, angel literally and physically being present to tell someone either what to do or what was going to happen... "raise your rod and I'll part the sea";  "find X number of righteous men and I won't destroy this place", etc.  I also am one to believe perhaps ALL of God's dealings with individuals in the OT were of an earthly, temporal nature - having to do with "instant" rewards, punishments, possession of lands, etc.


Then in the NT we have some of these things, which many of them indicate perhaps a sort of "shift";



Paul describes in I Tim. (literal translation) that God is a happy God;

No condemnation;

Let your joy be full;

Paul said it's no longer I that sin, but the sin that dwells in me; 

But then we have these things;

Paul talked a lot about following your conscience, that if we do something against it, it's sin.  What if due to upbringing and/or genetics,  one's conscience is extremely weak/sensitive, so everything is wrong?  (believe me, I've seen it)

I've personally heard sermons about God taking peoples' children when someone is disobedient/rebellious to God.

And of course, there was Ananias and Saphira.


Thoughts on this?  Does God deal with mankind differently after the cross?

[WhiteWings]

Saved by grace etc are not valid answers because the grace also extends to the pre-cross people.
The whole OT was just following the life of the Jews. God gave some feedback once in a while.
But that imo doesn't mean He didn't silently deal with other nations.
In the NT era teh focus is off the Jews but it doesn't mean the silently dealing with nations has changed.
(same for individuals)

[Molly]

Because we are still in the ages, he is still calling out a people for his own.

The focus has changed from Jew to neither Greek nor Jew.

So the whole world is now in play in a more obvious way.

The focus has also changed from outside us to inside--Christ in you, the hope of glory.  All the action is inside, so to speak.

It is not until the next age that what has been happening below the radar will burst forth onto the world, although we see an earnest of it now.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[PaoloNuevo]

Does He still heal supernaturally?

I know He does answer prayer...

[jabcat]

I certainly believe He does, but basically as it suits His will - not that we can rub His head like a Genie in a bottle and get Him to do whatever we want, whether it's His will or not.  He knows the end from the beginning and exactly what needs to happen to fit into His plans.  :2c:

I do believe He blesses each and every one of us every day.  I just often don't recognize it or appreciate it.  I also fight against His will, in that even in trials, I forget that it's still Him somehow working things for my good and for His overall plan.  I want what He does to make sense to me and fit what "feels right" to me, when just tonight I was reminded of Job saying "though God slay me, yet I will trust Him".  God is good.

I saw one fellow address the HAPPY GOD quote in Timothy by saying, "the reason God's happy is He knows how things are going to turn out".   :bigGrin:

[CHB]

I think God does deal with us differently. I think it has to do with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and law and grace. Have you ever wondered if these two weren't the same.

The very first law had a positive and a negative command. This was thou shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This brought death to the human race, I would say this was the evil part of it.
God himself said he gave Israel bad laws. (Ezek. 20:25) "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live". I believe  God was shaping and using Israel as an example to the world. In the OT God dealt pretty much with Israel only. Now there is neither "Jew nor Greek".

Another thing that seemed to change was death. In the Old Testament we read about the dead knowing nothing, dust thou art and dust thou shalt return and many more scriptures that imply that no part of the body goes any where but to the grave. I find only a couple of verses  that suggests anything about being with God after death (Ecc. 3:21) (Ecc. 12:7). I have read different ideas as to what the spirit is in these verses and what happens to it after death. Some say that it is talking about the breath that God breathed into man and that it remains dormant until God resurrects the body. Kind of like a tape that is kept in storage until it is ready to be played. Others say it is our awakened spirit that is with God and we are alive and know everything. Would this only apply to believers? If so, what happens to the unbelievers spirit? This also creates a problem.  The new Testament does suggest that we return to God after death. I have wondered about this and if this only applies to believers? Did God change the way he deals with death in the new Testament?

Also, the woman's role changed after the crucifixion. Before a woman was subject to her husband and considered inferior, after Christ's death there is "neither male or female". We are the same in the eyes of God.

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

I may be wrong but I believe it all has to do with the tree of knowledge of good and evil. the world is learning the consequences and benefits of both. Old Testament was the bad, New Testament was the good.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

That would mean pre-cross people are saved by works....

[micah7:9]

It seems that I misunderstood the post so I removed my statement. Peace and Blessings

[CHB]

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

That would mean pre-cross people are saved by works....

No, they just thought they were. Remember they were blinded.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

That would mean pre-cross people are saved by works....

No, they just thought they were. Remember they were blinded.

CHB

That's my point. Nothing changed.

[Molly]

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

That would mean pre-cross people are saved by works....

No, they just thought they were. Remember they were blinded.

CHB

That's my point. Nothing changed.

Nothing changed but the perception of man.

But, isn't that what changes the world?

The same Saviour, but they had to wait for us.


39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

--Heb 11

[CHB]

Requirements for salvation changed after Christ's resurrection. We went from the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel. Now it is through Jesus Christ and Grace.

That would mean pre-cross people are saved by works....

No, they just thought they were. Remember they were blinded.

CHB

That's my point. Nothing changed.

Well, you have a point there.  :laughing7: I should have said "the world believed that the only way to salvation was through the law and Israel and you are right most still think this, so it hasn't changed in that respect.  Although, I do think people are leaning the other way more and more. Christ did come to nulify the law and he is the only way to salvation. So, that changed, that was what I was referring to.

WhiteWings, go get a job.  :laughing7: :rolllol: :first:

CHB

[WhiteWings]

WhiteWings, go get a job.  :laughing7: :rolllol: :first:

Promoting works again?
:laughing7:

[CHB]

WhiteWings, go get a job.  :laughing7: :rolllol: :first:

Promoting works again?
:laughing7:

:LH: :goodone:

chb

[CHB]

I was thinking about the miracles that were done before Christ and after Christ was crucified and wondered why we don't have any of these miracles today? Anyone got any ideas? Is it because of lack of faith? Maybe the time period? Jesus said, greater works than this will you do after I go to the Father. He was speaking to his disciples but doesn't any apply for today?

Would you say God is dealing with miracles different today than in the past? Why?

CHB

[thinktank]

Perhaps because people value knowledge today more than miracles. When was the last time you heard a christian say "I want to be a healer". A lot of the people I see today who want to be healers, end up in the new age type healing, herbs etc or in hospitality, it seems healing via Christ is something to impossible. My gut instinct tells me though that in India and South Affrica there is a huge amount of miracles done in the name of Jesus.
:2c:

[CHB]

Really, what types of miracles?

CHB

[thinktank]

Healing miracles and demons being cast out.  There is a lot of vodoo black magic in south Affrica, unlike most countries they don't treat it as a joke, but as a serious thing that destroys lives, but Jesus power sets them free.

In India I heard about a herd of elephants trampling through towns that helped out the persecuted christians, by frightening their persecutors.

[micah7:9]

Gen 17:14  and an uncircumcised one, a male, the flesh of whose foreskin is not circumcised, even that person hath been cut off from his people; My covenant he hath broken.'
Gal 3:28  there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female, for all ye are one in Christ Jesus;
Gal 3:29  and if ye are of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise--heirs.