Aionios

[DC]

In every known use of the word Aionios outside of the bible, was it ALWAYS used to describe finite periods of time?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't know about that (someone here probably does), but I just want to say that if you go with the idea that the NT letters were originally written in Hebrew then translated into Greek for non-Hebrew speaking believers. it would follow logically that it would be of great benefit to study the Hebrew original word.

Hebrew is much richer in thought, sort of God's "picture" language, because every letter carries a thought(s), not just a meaning. Just my  :2c:.......Blessings.....

[Paul Hazelwood]

In every known use of the word Aionios outside of the bible, was it ALWAYS used to describe finite periods of time?

I do not believe so, however I believe the main diffifulty here is  understanding that aionios can be used to describe time in a sense of an unknown duration which is not necessarily and absolutely a finite period.

[WhiteWings]

In every known use of the word Aionios outside of the bible, was it ALWAYS used to describe finite periods of time?

Always is a very long time :winkgrin:
Word meanings change over time. So I think you should limit "always" to the time frame Jesus and the 12 lived. They wrote words with the meaning they had then. Not with the meaning todays Greek people give to the words.
Then a good starting point is looking in the Bible itself.
There are several verses that are translated as eternal/for ever but clearly are not so because a little later the eternal period ends.
That the NT of course.
Before Jesus was born the OT was translated to Greek. It's usually called Septuagint or LXX. (is also translated to English)
In that translation you also see many verses that KJV translated as eternal but clearly show it was a limited period of time.
So it can without a doubt be proven that in many cases aion does not mean for ever.
UR believer say it never means eternal. ET believer say it sometimes means eternal.
So I think your question can't be answered. Because even if you would find a writing that uses aion as eternal there are still many Biblical proofs that's not the only meaning.
I can't remember a an example of aion meaning eternal but I have some verses for you that show it often means age.
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=aion%20verses.htm

[DC]

I have a theory.

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says "Then they will go away to aionian correction, but the righteous to aionian life."  Is it likely that by "aionian life", he means life in the age before Christ hands over the kingdom to the Father, and likewise "aionian correction" is referring to correction in the age before he hands the kingdom over to the Father.  When the father inherits the kingdom at the end of the age, the people undergoing the correction will be fully purified and freed from the Lake of Fire, and from that point on everyone will be fully immortal and there will be nothing but eternal happiness for everyone forever and ever.

So, is there lots of scriptural support that this theory is accurate?

[WhiteWings]

That's about how see it DC.
That age is basicly the the first age of a neverending period.
The sinners enter that period an age adter rge saints. The sinners enjoy His glory a bit sooner as the sinners.
BTW I think that 'while' is much shorter than 1000 years.


http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/arguments_against_universal_salvation/the_biggest_stumbling_block_me_matthew_2546_4525.msg46629.html#msg46629
http://www.forananswer.org/Matthew/Mt25_46.htm
More: http://www.forananswer.org/ABC_Index.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/physical_approach_matthew_2546_and_everlasting_punishment_7929.msg92597.html#msg92597

[DC]

 :Sparkletooth: Been looking round the forum and found some information that made me very happy.

There was this guy named Josephus who was born only a couple of years after Jesus died.  He wrote that the Pharisees taught the doctrine of eternal punishment, but he didn't use "Aionios Kolasis" to describe it, he used other terms like "Eirgmon Aidion" ("Eternal Imprisonment") and "Aidios Timoiria" ("Eternal Punishment") to describe it.  Jesus warned his followers about the teachings of the Pharisees.  And furthurmore, Josephus used the word Aionios to describe things that were clearly temporary.

I find all this info VERY convincing evidence for UR.  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: So did we...... :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

DC,

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d100801.pdf
Also bits about age in that article.
Click all the links in the article and it will keep you busy for an age.

Keep on smiling

[WhiteWings]

I have a theory.

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says "Then they will go away to aionian correction, but the righteous to aionian life."  Is it likely that by "aionian life", he means life in the age before Christ hands over the kingdom to the Father, and likewise "aionian correction" is referring to correction in the age before he hands the kingdom over to the Father.  When the father inherits the kingdom at the end of the age, the people undergoing the correction will be fully purified and freed from the Lake of Fire, and from that point on everyone will be fully immortal and there will be nothing but eternal happiness for everyone forever and ever.

So, is there lots of scriptural support that this theory is accurate?

A few articles that partly answer your question.

Adulterers, Thieves, Liars, Whoremongers, Blasphemers and Murders will not be in the Kingdom of God
[The Time Periods for the Resurrections/url]

[WhiteWings]

I have a theory.

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says "Then they will go away to aionian correction, but the righteous to aionian life." 

Eonian a timely word

Eonian life is falsely reported in the King James version and elsewhere as "eternal life." It will come as a shock to many to learn that neither Jesus nor Paul ever spoke of eternal life but rather eonian life, or that life which endures through two future eons (the thousand-year kingdom eon, already discussed, and the new heavens and new earth). If this disclosure spoils the meter in some beloved Christian hymns, let truth conquer cadence.

The initial knee-jerk reaction to this truth is that, since eon and eonian pertain to time, the saints must not live forever. This is faulty reasoning. The saints do live forever, but not because of eonian life. The saints live forever because they are made immortal (1 Corinthians 15:54). Immortal people can't die, no matter how hard they try

More: http://thechurch.forumwise.com/archive/o_t/t_271/eternal_life.html

[PaoloNuevo]

It will come as a shock to many to learn that neither Jesus nor Paul ever spoke of eternal life but rather eonian life, or that life which endures through two future eons (the thousand-year kingdom eon, already discussed, and the new heavens and new earth). If this disclosure spoils the meter in some beloved Christian hymns, let truth conquer cadence.

You have a way with words, WW..

Immortal people can't die, no matter how hard they try

It rhymes too.  :grin: :grin:

Umm, I've read many articles already, but I think I'll kind of go with the notion that chastening eonian and life eonian don't have the same duration...

But I don't have a problem with interpreting eonian life as temporary, and a referring to a quality of life either .. but will NOT be lost or forfeited either, because those who already belong to Christ, no one can snatch them away from His hand...

[WhiteWings]

I just finished updating my Tract with some great timelines I recently found on the web.
I think they can be helpful in this discussion.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/all_about_eons.htm

[PaoloNuevo]

WOW! Thanks WW,

Also, I love the Tabernacle analogy and comparison.. It does shed a lot of light indeed.  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

 :high5: PN,

No wonder it's so hard to understand:
"The eon of the eon"
"The eon of the eons"
"The eons of the eons"

Even put in a nice short list it's hard to see 3 different "groups" it's very easy to over look the different names.
I've never noticed the difference between the last two :mblush:
(note: check eis ton aiõna again. I found the original document of the author that shows the Greek fonts correctly)

[WhiteWings]

DC, sorry the thread went off-topic

PN, I think you should start a new thread based on the diagrams because I think it takes the thread started by DC very off-topic. (it was about non-Biblical definitions)
Unless DC has given all hope to get OP answered.

[WhiteWings]

I have a theory.

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says "Then they will go away to aionian correction, but the righteous to aionian life."  Is it likely that by "aionian life", he means life in the age before Christ hands over the kingdom to the Father, and likewise "aionian correction" is referring to correction in the age before he hands the kingdom over to the Father.  When the father inherits the kingdom at the end of the age, the people undergoing the correction will be fully purified and freed from the Lake of Fire, and from that point on everyone will be fully immortal and there will be nothing but eternal happiness for everyone forever and ever.

So, is there lots of scriptural support that this theory is accurate?

Please note that the judgments of the nations of Matthew 25:31-46 takes place 1000 years before the Great White Throne judgment.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: WW, that was just an amazing site; you KNOW I loved the Tabernacle part   :winkgrin:........will read it all when I get time. What I know of it regarding ages is this........

Outer court/roughly 4 days/4000 years---the 2 "days" from Adam to Moses, and 2 "days" from Moses to Jesus = 4000. Passover realm. The number of posts around this portion of the "tent", corresponds to the 60 patriarchs in the lineage of the elders.

Inner court/2 days/2000 years since Jesus = 6 days or 6000 years. It's also the 2 days Jesus told Herod He would do cures and cast out devils. Check it out in relation to the SIX waterpots He filled with wine, and "day" the man had legion cast out of him. Pentecost realm.

Holy of Holies/ both 1 day and eternity, wrapped up into one, because it's representative of the day (1000) of the Lord, Christ Jesus, who is without beginning or end. The dimensions of the Holy of Holies is as a perfect cube, the same on all sides, 10 X 10 X 10 = 1000.

Also the 3rd day Jesus told Herod He would be perfected. He was not talking of Himself because as the Head was already perfect/complete, but rather His body IN US, which is Spirit. Perfect or completed = the Head and the body becoming one in shoe leather, a people called by His name, and a place for Him to lay His head. Tabernacles realm.

[PaoloNuevo]

PN, I think you should start a new thread based on the diagrams because I think it takes the thread started by DC very off-topic. (it was about non-Biblical definitions)

All right...

and @Card Whoa, thanks for expounding that... I think I'll start a new thread in relation to 1000 years.

[fullarmor2]

I found a very interesting article on the word here.
     http://www.word-gems.com/time.aionios.html

[PaoloNuevo]

I like this little snippet:

Life is only of value when it is nothing less than the life of God -- and that is the meaning of eternal life.

:thumbsup:

[Samuel Cripps]

I found a very interesting article on the word here.
     http://www.word-gems.com/time.aionios.html

Awesome article.

My understanding is that aionios basically means "divine" when used in conjunction with our life in Christ and the punishment/destruction to come.