The voice

[micah7:9]

I have found my reading and studying leading back to the beginning.  I was reading an artical and something jumped out at me, "the voice of your wife." And that is all it took I immediately went to Gen. 3 to see where that incident should have  taken place, chapter 3:6 and I found no such event. The first time the word "voice" is used is 3:8 and it is from the Lord God, this voice as I understand it better understood  as Rotherham and Youngs  "Then heard they the sound of Yahweh God.." The second time we read voice is the man Gen 3:10  and he saith, `Thy sound I have heard in the garden, (YLT) but then we come to the third time it is the Lord God who used it, verse 17  And to the man He said, `Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, here now all is agreed it is a voice;
Verse 6 of chapter 3 reads "...and she gave to her husband also, along with her, and he did eat." As far as I can understand there was no dialouge with the man.
I find it quite interesting that other than Gen.2:22 "...and brought her unto the man," there is no significant seperation of the man and woman (until Gen:37) for the man says in Gen 2:23  And the man said, This, one, now, is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh! This, one shall be called Woman, for, out of a man, hath this one been taken.
Gen 2:24  For this cause, will a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Also with that reasoning, other than the woman having dialouge with the enchanter(serpent) but there is no voice, at least it is not written in the Word. Now I am saying to myself how is this? I will contend that that form of comunication is mental, from within ones own self or from another source (and we now know we war against principalities and powers in high places) and since I believe that there was  no real seperation of man and woman, when the whisperer had its say and the woman(mind) was enticed and saw and ate and it was the man eating, for the mind beguiled chapter. We know that it was the man that was charged not to eat of the tree of the K of G and Evil, not the woman, I am still in the reasoning of this, but it would seem to me that what the Lord God in Gen. 2:22 &23  the man was awaken with a mind, which I believe  could be the woman. I know there is much teaching that the woman is the soul and womb, but for me that does not work. Gen. 2:7 defines the soul as a living creature. For we read Gen.3:17 that the Lord God said,  "And, to the man, he said, Because thou didst hearken to the voice of thy wife,..." I believe that voice that Adam listened to "voice" H6963= to call aloud, was his mind. Is it not true that "repent" is to have a change of mind? Is it the mind of Christ that is with in the Body? Paul writes in
2Co 11:3  and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Christ;
We are first to understand the natural and then the spiritual.  1Co 15:46  but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.  For me I see the story being told from the natural understanding and from that I recieve the spiritual. I find Genesis maybe an allegory, I just dont reason how much. I realize that I am out of step of how many believe, and myself  believed probably much the same way, but...
2 Tim. 3:16  Every scripture, is God-breathed, and profitable—unto teaching, unto conviction, unto correction, unto the discipline that is in righteousness,—
2Ti 3:17  In order that, ready, may be the man, of God, unto every good work, being well-prepared.

[thinktank]

I think that when woman  is seen as a soul, it doesn't mean that Eve is a soul, simply means that Eve represented a soul, because both Adam and Eve have become a living soul.

:2c:

[micah7:9]

I think that when woman  is seen as a soul, it doesn't mean that Eve is a soul, simply means that Eve represented a soul, because both Adam and Eve have become a living soul.

:2c:

I mentioned little of the soul, "  I know there is much teaching that the woman is the soul and womb, but for me that does not work. Gen. 2:7 defines the soul as a living creature."
Why is it you found that to comment on? I am just wondering?

[thinktank]

Because you mention it a lot. I thought maybe I could clear it up a little, at least from my viewpoint of why Eve is sometimes represented as a soul, a shadow type of the soul. I'm not entirely convinced of it because maybe mans spirit is the soul and the bible just uses two words to express the same thing, i.e the spirit within that thinks, has the same meaning as the soul within thinks, just two words to express the same thing, and the birth of this soul or spirit or heart that is used in the bible a lot, is man created in Gods image and all of these lumped together produce the living soul. But this is just an idea, it is a challenge to figure out what each of these terms mean in the bible, for they are often used when a person of God is reaching out to God etc.

[micah7:9]

Because you mention it a lot. I thought maybe I could clear it up a little, at least from my viewpoint of why Eve is sometimes represented as a soul, a shadow type of the soul. I'm not entirely convinced of it because maybe mans spirit is the soul and the bible just uses two words to express the same thing, i.e the spirit within that thinks, has the same meaning as the soul within thinks, just two words to express the same thing, and the birth of this soul or spirit or heart that is used in the bible a lot, is man created in Gods image and all of these lumped together produce the living soul. But this is just an idea, it is a challenge to figure out what each of these terms mean in the bible, for they are often used when a person of God is reaching out to God etc.

I have mentioned soul alot but not in the sense that man has a soul. And as far as man created in Gods image and likeness, I believe that man is in the process of being created in that image and lilkeness. If man was created in the image and likenss of God, I do not believe man would be in the situation that we have today. And yes I understand that the words soul, spirit, breath all are quite similar, and yet to be fully understood, at least to me anyway. I am just finding it difficult to understand that the soul as read in Gen.2:7 is something other than a living creature. I do see how it can be understood as it would seem it is understood as in the NT as our self or ego or mind, psyche; but it defies the definition of Gen.2:7 which is dust of the ground + breath= a lliving soul or breathing creature.

[WhiteWings]

I believe that man is in the process of being created in that image and lilkeness.

I agree. The imperfect mood of 'created' seems to support that view.


Imperfect

The imperfect expresses an action,  process or condition which is
incomplete,  and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action
in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and
pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact",  the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its
completion.
He put forth his hand to the door
it came to a halt
I began to hear

1b) A phrase such as "What seekest thou?",  refers not only to the
present,  but assumes that the search has continued for some time.

Why do you weep?
Why refuse to eat?
Why are you distressed?

These relate not so much as to one occasion,  as to a
continued condition.

2) The kind of progression or imperfection and unfinished condition
of the action may consist in its frequent repetition.

2a) In the present:

it is "said" today
a wise son "maketh glad" his father

2b) In the past:

"and so he did"       -  regularly,  year by year
a mist "used to go up"
the fish which "we used to eat"
the manna "came down" -regularly
He "spoke"            -repeatedly

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future",  referring not only
to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has
not yet begun:

3a) This may be a future from the point of view of the real
present; as:

Now "shalt thou    See what I will do"
"We will burn" thy house

3b) It may be a future from any other point of view assumed; as:
He took his son that "was to reign"
she stayed to    See what "should be done"

4) The usage of 3b may be taken as the transitive to a common use of
the imperfect in which it serves for an expression of those shades
of relation among acts and thoughts for which English prefers the
conditional moods. Such actions are strictly "future" in reference
to the assumed point of relation,  and the simple imperfect
sufficiently expresses them; e.g.

of every tree thou "mayest eat"
"could we know"
He "would" say

5a) The imperfect follows particles expressing "transition",
"purpose",  "result" and so forth as,  "in order that",  "lest"; e.g.

say thou art my sister,  "that it may be well with thee"
let us deal wisely with the nation,  "lest it multiplies"

5b) When however there is a strong feeling of "purpose",  or when it
is meant to be strongly marked,  then of course the moods are
employed; e.g.

raise me up "that I may requite them"
who will entice Ahab "that he may go up"
what shall we do "that the sea may be calm"

The moods are also employed to express that class of
future actions which we express in the "optative"

"may I die"
"may" the LORD "establish" his word
"may" the child "live".

[Molly]

I am just finding it difficult to understand that the soul as read in Gen.2:7 is something other than a living creature. I do see how it can be understood as it would seem it is understood as in the NT as our self or ego or mind, psyche; but it defies the definition of Gen.2:7 which is dust of the ground + breath= a lliving soul or breathing creature.

Adam is dust of the ground + the breath of God.

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
--Gen 2

We see Jesus doing something similar after the resurrection--as a quickening Spirit.


John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Now the question becomes, does man have a capacity [his soul] to receive the breath[Spirit] of God that the animals [beasts] do not have?

Solomon can say what he likes, but nowhere does it say that God was creating the animals [beasts] in his own likeness and image.

Man is qualitatively different from the animals.

[Molly]

"the voice of your wife." And that is all it took I immediately went to Gen. 3 to see where that incident should have  taken place, chapter 3:6 and I found no such event. The first time the word "voice" is used is 3:8 and it is from the Lord God, this voice as I understand it better understood  as Rotherham and Youngs  "Then heard they the sound of Yahweh God.."

Adam is listening to the voice of his wife as she talks with the Nachash.


1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

--Gen 3


We know that Adam just stands there and watches and listens.  Then he takes the food from his wife after she eats of it and offers it to him.

We also know that Adam was not deceived by what he heard from the Nachash.

If he was not deceived, then he was not tempted as she was.

If he was not deceived, he knew he would die when he ate from it.

So why did he take the food from his wife? 

This word, voice, has a funny quality to it.  It doesn't seem to have so much the meaning of a quiet conversation as a shout, a yell, a noise, a bleating, crackling sound.

"voice"

H6963
קל    קול
qôl  qôl

kole, kole
From an unused root meaning to call aloud; a voice or sound: -  + aloud, bleating, crackling, cry (+ out), fame, lightness, lowing, noise, + hold peace, [pro-] claim, proclamation, + sing, sound, + spark, thunder (-ing), voice, + yell.


So, then, what is this 'voice' he harkens to?


1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

--1Cor 13

[micah7:9]

I am just finding it difficult to understand that the soul as read in Gen.2:7 is something other than a living creature. I do see how it can be understood as it would seem it is understood as in the NT as our self or ego or mind, psyche; but it defies the definition of Gen.2:7 which is dust of the ground + breath= a lliving soul or breathing creature.

Adam is dust of the ground + the breath of God.

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
--Gen 2

We see Jesus doing something similar after the resurrection--as a quickening Spirit.


John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


Now the question becomes, does man have a capacity [his soul] to receive the breath[Spirit] of God that the animals [beasts] do not have?

Solomon can say what he likes, but nowhere does it say that God was creating the animals [beasts] in his own likeness and image.

Man is qualitatively different from the animals.   
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

[micah7:9]

Molly, "We know that Adam just stands there and watches and listens.  Then he takes the food from his wife after she eats of it and offers it to him.

We also know that Adam was not deceived by what he heard from the Nachash.

If he was not deceived, then he was not tempted as she was.

If he was not deceived, he knew he would die when he ate from it.

So why did he take the food from his wife"

offers it to him. Not if they were yet one as I mentioned.

Lets not forget the woman was NEVER given a charge not to eat. And as I said after man woke up he had a different mind from the one he had when he was given the charge not to eat. Why did he take the fruit from his wife.. they were ONE.

[Molly]

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

That word for beast means 'cattle.'   Do you really believe that men are cattle?  I know that the god of this world would like us to believe that because he treats men like cattle.  And, cattle are not treated very well.

This is a man without Christ talking.

Maybe these passages need to be looked at a little closer and in context, instead of quoted out of context.

Otherwise, let's eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.


22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

--Ecc 3

[micah7:9]

Beast H2416  chay  From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: -  + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.
H2421  châyâh  A prim root (compare H2331, H2424); to live, whether literally or figuratively; causatively to revive: - keep (leave, make) alive, X certainly, give (promise) life, (let, suffer to) live, nourish up, preserve (alive), quicken, recover, repair, restore (to life), revive, (X God) save (alive, life, lives), X surely, be whole.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Living H2416  chay  From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: -  + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.
Soul H5315  nephesh From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
H5314  nâphash   A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, that is, (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air): - (be) refresh selves (-ed).

Cattle H929 behêmâh   From an unused root (probably meaning to be mute); properly a dumb beast; especially any large quadruped or animal (often collectively): - beast, cattle.

[Molly]

18I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
--Ecc 3



"beasts"

    H929
בּהמה
behêmâh
be-hay-maw'
From an unused root (probably meaning to be mute); properly a dumb beast; especially any large quadruped or animal (often collectively): - beast, cattle.



This is the word that E-sword gives for this passage.

Again, I ask:  Do you really think men are cattle?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The carnal beastly natures of men are as cattle, ie. beasts of burden. This is why the Israelites made a golden calf, gold representing the higher nature of a thing = the BEST carnal man has to offer is STILL a beast. Interesting is that cow DNA and human is so close. One of the faces/natures of the tribes's standards (banner) around the Tabernacle while encamped (same as living creatures in Rev.) was that of an ox or calf. These were seen in the OT as well as the NT and were always associated with God's throne. My  :2c: Blessings....

[micah7:9]

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man [b]that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts. [/b] Ecc 3:19  For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even [b]one event is to them[/b]; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all[/b], and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.  
Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,

Now, do "I think" men area cattle, I dont know.
But the Bible is very specific that man aint no different than a beast. but you see in Romans 8:20 in hope,
Rom 8:21  that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption

Vanity= empty.

[Molly]

But the Bible is very specific that man aint no different than a beast.

well, you can't have it both ways.  If you accept that this says that man is no different from a beast, then you must also conclude that all we have left is to rejoice in our own works, as it says so in the same chapter of Ecc.  Is that true, too?  Lots of people out there are rejoicing in their own works, and some expecially rejoice like billionaire George Soros,  --so should we also?

Are you rejoicing in your own works?


22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

--Ecc 3

[micah7:9]

But the Bible is very specific that man aint no different than a beast.

well, you can't have it both ways.  If you accept that this says that man is no different from a beast, then you must also conclude that all we have left is to rejoice in our own works, as it says so in the same chapter of Ecc.  Is that true, too?  Lots of people out there are rejoicing in their own works, and some expecially rejoice like billionaire George Soros,  --so should we also?

Are you rejoicing in your own works?


22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

--Ecc 3

What ever works I may do that  glorifies God the power came from Him.
2Pe 2:12  But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
You cant disect the Word just to fit your thinking.

[CHB]

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man [b]that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts. [/b] Ecc 3:19  For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even [b]one event is to them[/b]; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all[/b], and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.  
Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,

Now, do "I think" men area cattle, I dont know.
But the Bible is very specific that man aint no different than a beast. but you see in Romans 8:20 in hope,
Rom 8:21  that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption

Vanity= empty.

Isn't this talking about what happens to both when they die? Don't we all die the same death? We, and the beast both die. Isn't that what it's talking about?

CHB

[micah7:9]

Yes

[Molly]

But the Bible is very specific that man aint no different than a beast.

well, you can't have it both ways.  If you accept that this says that man is no different from a beast, then you must also conclude that all we have left is to rejoice in our own works, as it says so in the same chapter of Ecc.  Is that true, too?  Lots of people out there are rejoicing in their own works, and some expecially rejoice like billionaire George Soros,  --so should we also?

Are you rejoicing in your own works?


22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

--Ecc 3

What ever works I may do that  glorifies God the power came from Him.
2Pe 2:12  But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
You cant disect the Word just to fit your thinking.

So there are some who are as natural [physical] as brute beasts.  That is not to say they are brute beasts, merely as physical as brute beasts.  This is called [their own] "corruption." 

"corruption"

the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.
2. moral perversion; depravity.
3. perversion of integrity.
4. corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
5. bribery.
6. debasement or alteration, as of language or a text.
7. a debased form of a word.
8. putrefactive decay; rottenness.
9. any corrupting influence or agency.


But doesn't corruption imply a degradation or perversion of a former non-corrupt state?  Doesn't it imply its opposite was once the norm?

So we see some are corrupted, as physical as beasts, but there are others, as well--

8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

--2 Peter 2


So we see on one side the righteous man with the righteous soul, and on the other side the corrupted man with his beastly and unjust ways.

What makes the difference?

And, we know our own works are as filthy rags.  So why would we rejoice in them?


But, now we have Adam. He watches Eve consort with the enemy. 


He stands between the voice of God and the voice of Eve, and listens, until finally he makes a choice. 

His choice changes his circumstances but does it make him less righteous?  Does he become corrupted because he is lowered into corruption?  Or does that hope we are told about preserve his righteous soul?

Because we are told by Jesus that Adam's son Abel, whose very name means vanity, is righteous.



"Abel"

H1892
הבל    הבל
hebel  hăbêl
heh'-bel, hab-ale'
From H1891; emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory; often used as an adverb: -  X altogether, vain, vanity.

[micah7:9]

"Abel"

H1892
הבל    הבל
hebel  hăbêl
heh'-bel, hab-ale'
From H1891; emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory; often used as an adverb: -  X altogether, vain, vanity.
Which the very reason that Abel was needed be the the first sacrifice. Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offers to God more of a sacrifice than Cain, through which he was testified to that he is just at God's testifying to his approach presents, and through it, dying, he is still speaking."
Just what do you think man was and is before Jesus Christ made His sacrifice?

This is man without Jesus    2. moral perversion; depravity.
3. perversion of integrity.
4. corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
5. bribery.
6. debasement or alteration, as of language or a text.
7. a debased form of a word.
8. putrefactive decay; rottenness.
9. any corrupting influence or agency.

Why...why Rom 1:24 Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!"
Rom 1:26 Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature."
Rom 1:27 Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be."
Rom 1:28 And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,
Rom 1:29 filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,
Rom 1:30 vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,
Rom 1:31 unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
Rom 1:32 those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them."
the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.

[Molly]

Just what do you think man was and is before Jesus Christ made His sacrifice?

I think--


We were this--

... the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

--Luke 3


And, this--

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[micah7:9]

Ok, I read that, and it is well.  And that is true Luk 3:38 of Enosh, of Seth, of Adam, of God."(Rotherham CLV)
What were his attributes? Just what was on his mind all the time? What was mans desires?

[Molly]

Ok, I read that, and it is well.  And that is true Luk 3:38 of Enosh, of Seth, of Adam, of God."(Rotherham CLV)
What were his attributes? Just what was on his mind all the time? What was mans desires?

Jesus bought [is bringing] us back, he paid a ransom for us--paid in full--

"ransom"

money demanded for the return of a captured person


What were we before we were captured by the nachash?


3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


[7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ]


11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

--Ephesians 1



22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

--Luke 15

[micah7:9]

Quote from Molly "Adam is dust of the ground + the breath of God.

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
--Gen 2

We see Jesus doing something similar after the resurrection--as a quickening Spirit.


There is nothing similar of a living soul and a quickening spirit. A living soul is not a quickening spirit. This it seems is where this track went about man. Man was created to miss the mark, that is and was the function of man from the beginning, to sin, a sinning machine. Yes, Rev 13:8 And all who are dwelling on the earth will be worshiping it, everyone whose name is not written in the scroll of life of the Lambkin slain from the disruption of the world."
But there is a process of restoration that must be worked first, for the Lambkin to be slain for. And I will ask just what restoration if man was not in that postion to be restored from being something away from God.