What's so bad about annihilation

[jabcat]

Sorry Lefein, I was still "meddling"...  my post you  :thumbsup: is ending up here now.   :mblush:  (Thanks!)

----------------------
IMO, a definitive key verse;


KJV and derivatives translation -  ...no one can say Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy (Ghost) Spirit";  despite the many scriptures to the contrary, this one verse as translated could leave room for the interpretation of a forced, "defeated" bowing;


More accurate translations, including the most literal to the New Contract Writings (NT) Koine Greek;

...no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except IN the Holy (Pure) Spirit.   

Vital difference.  Reconciling many scriptures, being IN the Holy Spirit = reconciled, redeemed, restored, born anew from above.   

[shawn]

See this is where I am LS.  UR really appeals to my logic, and emotions on a very deep level.  I long for it.  But, just because it feels good and makes sense logically doesn't mean that is God's plan.  I must find it in scripture.  And while I do think there is some scriptural support for UR...even some tough verses for me to explain...ultimately I believe the english translations widely support ED.  I speak english.  That is the Bible I had placed in my hands.  I am not a linguist nor will I completely trust the word of others on a particular subject in which I plead ignorance.

What I have found peace in is knowing that scripture does not support ET.  I can indeed reconcil God who loves agape and ED.  My reservations that surround ED is the reservations of many here.  It doesn't feel like complete victory to my finite mind.  But, I am not God nor does he need or seek my approval for his judgments.

I don't disagree with a single word you wrote ... I am in the same place.

Peace to you - it was good seeing you again    :cloud9:

Always good seeing you post as well.  I also appreciate your thoughts and prayers for my family.

[jabcat]

Does every bowed knee do so in love and reverence ... or in defeat?

What better thing for any child, than to be humiliated, and defeated by the all loving, merciful, not-vindictive, forgiving Father who has brought a person to such a state as to have lost all sense of self-leaning pride, such pride that would cause such a person to have rebelled against God in the first place?

For someone to bow in defeat, is to bow in love and reverence.  The man who offers up his life in the sinner's prayer, does so in defeat; and his offering is nothing less glorifying and beautiful to God than what will occur in Heaven when they bow, and confess the name of God whether it is in supplication, or in praise.

To be defeated by God, is to be defeated by a just king worthy of chivalric faerie tales.  :2c:

Amen.  Another pertinent question;  what do the scriptures say happens when one confesses Jesus as Lord?   :bgdance:

[Lefein]

Jabcat; That they're saved!  :boyheart:  Aelleluyah!

PS: see some edits to my post, it might bolster things I've already said. :)

PSS: more edits to grammar lol xD

[willieH]

Annihilation carries all the same faults of Eternal Torture, the only difference here - is that life is ceased, rather than tortured.

The root failure of ET is not in how evil it is - that is certainly a powerful reason to hate it.  But the root failure of it - is that it makes God a failure.

Annihilation means that God did not succeed in his will and task of saving all mankind.  The vast majority of mankind would be destroyed, and God would be the perpetual God of Death and the Dead, but God is the god of the living.

I would have to disagree.  There is a large gap between ED and ET.  I'm not sure how anyone can say that eternally torturing isn't infinitely worse than just death.  There is so much scripture about the fate of nonbelievers it's hard to ignore or reason away.  Look up destruction and see how many times it's listed when referencing people.

I'm not saying that mean ED is true.  But, I'm saying there is significant scriptural support for it.

In YOUR opinion...  I noticed No "Scriptural support" was named by you...  :dontknow:

The FALSE propositions of either ED or ET still leaves GOD's plan to SAVE the WORLD He so LOVED...  a failure... and the WORD  which was sent out to accomplish (seek and save the LOST -- Luke 19:10 -- ALL which are IN ADAM -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- are "LOST") -- Isaiah 55:11 -- DOES indeed "return" ...VOID...   :sigh:

YHVH  being an UNCHANGING being... shall always LOVE  the WORLD which did NOT return to Him... in the EMPTINESS of the failure.

If even ONE is "lost" (which is the point of the parable of the LOST SHEEP), then the COMPLETE number remains  INCOMPLETE...  :dontknow:

And the Shepherd which was SENT to seek the LOST sheep, and did not FIND them and SAVE them... has failed in His effort.  :thumbdown:

willieH  :cloud9:

[micah7:9]

Hallelujah! WillieH. :grin:

[legoman]

...from another thread:

So, a guy tells me those in heaven have to continually eat from the tree of life for immortality.

i asked, those in eternal hell dont have a tree to eat from, how do they keep immortality?

i will let yall know what he says......

do these people even THINK???


chucjkt

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/immortality...._6260.0.html

Hey is that you Euty?  I didn't realize you had changed your user ID.

No, it's not Euty, just me!
I just bumped the thread here because it was a brilliant question.

Oh sorry I was confused!

Yes it was a good question...

[shawn]

Annihilation carries all the same faults of Eternal Torture, the only difference here - is that life is ceased, rather than tortured.

The root failure of ET is not in how evil it is - that is certainly a powerful reason to hate it.  But the root failure of it - is that it makes God a failure.

Annihilation means that God did not succeed in his will and task of saving all mankind.  The vast majority of mankind would be destroyed, and God would be the perpetual God of Death and the Dead, but God is the god of the living.

I would have to disagree.  There is a large gap between ED and ET.  I'm not sure how anyone can say that eternally torturing isn't infinitely worse than just death.  There is so much scripture about the fate of nonbelievers it's hard to ignore or reason away.  Look up destruction and see how many times it's listed when referencing people.

I'm not saying that mean ED is true.  But, I'm saying there is significant scriptural support for it.

In YOUR opinion...  I noticed No "Scriptural support" was named by you...  :dontknow:

The FALSE propositions of either ED or ET still leaves GOD's plan to SAVE the WORLD He so LOVED...  a failure... and the WORD  which was sent out to accomplish (seek and save the LOST -- Luke 19:10 -- ALL which are IN ADAM -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- are "LOST") -- Isaiah 55:11 -- DOES indeed "return" ...VOID...   :sigh:

YHVH  being an UNCHANGING being... shall always LOVE  the WORLD which did NOT return to Him... in the EMPTINESS of the failure.

If even ONE is "lost" (which is the point of the parable of the LOST SHEEP), then the COMPLETE number remains  INCOMPLETE...  :dontknow:

And the Shepherd which was SENT to seek the LOST sheep, and did not FIND them and SAVE them... has failed in His effort.  :thumbdown:

willieH  :cloud9:

Really?  You must have missed my lengthy list on the first page of scriptural support.  I will repost it here for you.

Php 3:18 For many, as I have often told you and now tell you even in tears, conduct themselves as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Php 3:19 Their end is destruction.

2Th 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

2Pe 2:12 But these people, like irrational animals born by nature for capture and destruction, revile things that they do not understand, and in their destruction they will also be destroyed,
2Pe 2:13 suffering wrong as payment for wrongdoing

Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Act 13:40 "Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:
Act 13:41 'BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH;
FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,
A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: die. the soul that sinneth, it shall die

Sir 15:14 When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice.
Sir 15:15 If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will.
Sir 15:16 There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand.
Sir 15:17 Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.

2Ma 7:14 When he was near death, he said, "It is my choice to die at the hands of men with the God-given hope of being restored to life by him; but for you, there will be no resurrection to life."

Psalms 37:10 "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall be no more."

Psa 5:6 You destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.

Psalms 37:20 "The enemies of the Lord, like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish, into smoke they shall vanish away."

Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together; the future of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psa 73:27 But those who are far from you perish; you destroy those unfaithful to you.

Psalms 145:20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.

Psalm 9:5-6
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy,
you have uprooted their cities;
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalms 92: 7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Proverbs 10:29 The way of the Lord is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.

Psalms 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the Lord.

Psalms 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

Psalms 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more.

Obadiah 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Psalms 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

Psa 37:38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 6:12-15
12 A scoundrel and villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
13 who winks with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,
14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up dissension.
15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.

Psa 28:5 They pay no heed to the LORD'S works, to the deeds of God's hands. God will tear them down, never to be rebuilt.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death.)
Rev 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.

Rev 21:8 But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

[legoman]

Does every bowed knee do so in love and reverence ... or in defeat?

What better thing for any child, than to be humiliated, and defeated by the all loving, merciful, not-vindictive, forgiving Father who has brought a person to such a state as to have lost all sense of self-leaning pride, such pride that would cause such a person to have rebelled against God in the first place?

For someone to bow in defeat, is to bow in love and reverence.  The man who offers up his life in the sinner's prayer, does so in defeat; and his offering is nothing less glorifying and beautiful to God than what will occur in Heaven when they bow, and confess the name of God whether it is in supplication, or in praise.

To be defeated by God, is to be defeated by a just king worthy of chivalric faerie tales.  :2c:

Amen.  Another pertinent question;  what do the scriptures say happens when one confesses Jesus as Lord?   :bgdance:

Yes Amen!  Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess and even swear allegiance!  That is what it says in Isaiah 45, and the Lord has sworn that all will do it.  I believe Him!

[willieH]

The point I was making perhaps was not clear.

If God wants all to be saved
... yet some end up in ED (or even ET)
... then what assurance do we have that God will even be able to save ourselves, since He is not able to fulfill his desire to save all?

If I may?

God desires all to be saved ...

GOD is an UNCHANGING being... so His "desires" shall NEVER CHANGE.  If His "desires" are not met... then His "desires" are IMPERFECT, and He is therefore NOT PERFECT...

Even then... in proposing "desire" as a "watered down" presentation of the UNCHANGIN WILL of YHVH, ...You willingly ignore -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- which notes the word BOULEMA as translated "willing" which means INTENT...

but by His design has allowed man to reject Him utterly.

Upon what Scripture do you found this statement?  :dontknow: (that "He allowed man to reject Him)

You are ignoring the FACT that He CONCLUDED ALL in UNBELIEF... it does not say that "He allowed" them to reject... they were CONCLUDED by Him to "reject" -- Rom 11:32

Not only that but it is STATED that NO MAN has "resisted HIS WILL" -- Rom 9:19

This is great cost to God Himself, but Love doesn't force itself or seek its own interests, correct? (1 Cor 13)  He "could" save all, but to me it isn't a question of whether He is able.

You FALSELY tie the hands of the ALMIGHTY and render Him, less than ALMIGHTY... "He COULD save all, but to me it isnt a question of whether He is able"... and in doing so, RENDER Him (which "COULD" save all"), ...a hypocrite which tells NOT the truth, claiming Himself a NON-RESPECTER of PERSONS,  and in that HYPOCRISY, in truth was their DELIVERER which COULD have delivered them, but DID NOT.  :thumbdown:

Does it not bring greater glory to God that all who love Him, do so freely? And if we freely love Him, I believe that there are some (a few) who would rather freely choose evil, and utterly reject Him.

FIRST --- MOD EDIT... in the above words... crediting SALVATION to YOUR DECISION to "freely love Him"?...  :thumbdown:

SECOND --- Either GOD saves us of HIS DOING COMPLETELY (without a "needed assistance" from SINNERS and their "free love" of Him), and is therefore the DELIVERER,  ...OR... we DELIVER ourselves by "freely loving Him"...  :dontknow:

In my mind, it's a question of His glory and His plan and His will be done.

Well... I have already posted the Scripture which notes that NO MAN has "resisted" His will... INCLUDING those who are FAULTED for disobedience... for He YET fault them, even though they had no "choice" to resist -- Rom 9:19-23 -- and is stated as MAKER of both the vessels of DISHONOR as well as those of HONOR...

Does that make sense?

Actuallly, no... it does not "make sense" that a GOD which LOVES the WORLD (which He FOREKNEW to do as they DID and brought them forth without regard to that knowledge), ...but sent His Son to redeem it... and then would "turn coat" and either DESTROY by FIRE, or TORMENT that WORLD He so (FOREVER) LOVES...

Obviously you have little experience in the dealings of LOVE... Love thinks of OTHERS, not of SELF... and GOD knowing that we are in a condition which is IN PERIL... did just THAT.  Even though you cannot see it in this moment...  :cloud9:

willieH  :cloud9:

[shawn]

I see much philosophical reasoning in this thread.  If this is like this...then this must be this type of thought.  Personally, I am not bright enough to reason out God.  I can read scripture but will only understand if the Holy Spirit unveils my eyes.  So, for me I will read the Bible set before me and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to me what he wants me to know.  Everything else will have to wait until I meet God.

[shawn]

Willie, just a question.  Do you find that your tone to other believers is condescending and judgmental?  You very well might not, or for some reason you feel you are entitled to speak to other believers like you do.  If I was thin skinned I might find you offensive.  I love you as a brother in Christ but I can say I do not appreciate your tone towards me, LS, or any other member that disagrees with you.  MOD EDIT

PS- A simple apology would be appreciated for accusing me of not using scripture to support my views. 

[micah7:9]

I, myself, me.. find the words of Bro. WillieH very up lifting and quite helpful. My reason for this perhaps is that I Iagree with the Word of God..The Bible is very open to the saints who desire to know that Father loves all His creation and that not one is left out of His plan, not even those believers who have a desire to see one lost will be lost. Destroyed, ruined yes to be made over yes, but lost to ET or ED nope, not in His plan. :grin:

[legoman]

Really?  You must have missed my lengthy list on the first page of scriptural support.  I will repost it here for you.

Php 3:18 For many, as I have often told you and now tell you even in tears, conduct themselves as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Php 3:19 Their end is destruction.

2Th 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

2Pe 2:12 But these people, like irrational animals born by nature for capture and destruction, revile things that they do not understand, and in their destruction they will also be destroyed,
2Pe 2:13 suffering wrong as payment for wrongdoing

Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Act 13:40 "Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:
Act 13:41 'BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH;
FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,
A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: die. the soul that sinneth, it shall die

Sir 15:14 When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice.
Sir 15:15 If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will.
Sir 15:16 There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand.
Sir 15:17 Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.

2Ma 7:14 When he was near death, he said, "It is my choice to die at the hands of men with the God-given hope of being restored to life by him; but for you, there will be no resurrection to life."

Psalms 37:10 "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall be no more."

Psa 5:6 You destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.

Psalms 37:20 "The enemies of the Lord, like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish, into smoke they shall vanish away."

Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together; the future of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psa 73:27 But those who are far from you perish; you destroy those unfaithful to you.

Psalms 145:20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.

Psalm 9:5-6
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy,
you have uprooted their cities;
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalms 92: 7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Proverbs 10:29 The way of the Lord is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.

Psalms 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the Lord.

Psalms 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

Psalms 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more.

Obadiah 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

Psalms 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

Psa 37:38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 6:12-15
12 A scoundrel and villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
13 who winks with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,
14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up dissension.
15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.

Psa 28:5 They pay no heed to the LORD'S works, to the deeds of God's hands. God will tear them down, never to be rebuilt.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death.)
Rev 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.

Rev 21:8 But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

Hi Shawn,

I don't think anyone is denying that the wicked will be destroyed - that is what you think these verses mean right?  The wicked will be destroyed - I agree, hallelujah!  There won't be any wicked people in heaven - it wouldn't be much of a heaven if there were still wicked people around?

However this destruction cannot mean annihilation or eternal death, for that would contradict all the other verses that have been raised - God will have all men to be saved - all will be made alive in Christ - every knee will bow and every tongue confess and even swear allegiance to Him. etc.

So it is imperative to understand what is meant when we read the wicked are destroyed.

Consider Saul/Paul.  He should be viewed as the "everyman" - the model for all conversion.  First note it was God who did the converting - God is in control.  Secondly why was he first called Saul - the chief of sinners who persecuted and killed many, but then when he was converted he became the great apostle Paul?

After Paul's conversion, Saul was no more - he was destroyed.  The wicked Saul was destroyed by destroying the wickedness out of himself.  This left only Paul.
Saul was the old carnal self, Paul was the new creation.  Note that we all start with a physical name, but when we are converted we are given a new name.  The old man is destroyed.

We learn that names are written in the "book of life" (which is Christ).  We can be rest assured that Saul was not written in the book of life, but Paul most certainly is.  And so it will be for all of us.  Like I said, Saul/Paul is the "everyman" - he is the model, for God is not respecter of persons; so all will be converted in a similar manner as Paul was.

And so the wicked are truly destroyed when our carnal self is fully and completely destroyed.

Please consider this when reading the verses you posted above.

Peace out Shawn...

[Lefein]

 :msealed:

Give me the serenity to accept the things I can't change...the courage to change what I can...And the wisdom to know the difference...

In Jesus' name - Amen...

[Cardinal]

[Hi Shawn,

I don't think anyone is denying that the wicked will be destroyed - that is what you think these verses mean right?  The wicked will be destroyed - I agree, hallelujah!  There won't be any wicked people in heaven - it wouldn't be much of a heaven if there were still wicked people around?

However this destruction cannot mean annihilation or eternal death, for that would contradict all the other verses that have been raised - God will have all men to be saved - all will be made alive in Christ - every knee will bow and every tongue confess and even swear allegiance to Him. etc.

So it is imperative to understand what is meant when we read the wicked are destroyed.

Consider Saul/Paul.  He should be viewed as the "everyman" - the model for all conversion.  First note it was God who did the converting - God is in control.  Secondly why was he first called Saul - the chief of sinners who persecuted and killed many, but then when he was converted he became the great apostle Paul?

After Paul's conversion, Saul was no more - he was destroyed.  The wicked Saul was destroyed by destroying the wickedness out of himself.  This left only Paul.
Saul was the old carnal self, Paul was the new creation.  Note that we all start with a physical name, but when we are converted we are given a new name.  The old man is destroyed.

We learn that names are written in the "book of life" (which is Christ).  We can be rest assured that Saul was not written in the book of life, but Paul most certainly is.  And so it will be for all of us.  Like I said, Saul/Paul is the "everyman" - he is the model, for God is not respecter of persons; so all will be converted in a similar manner as Paul was.

And so the wicked are truly destroyed when our carnal self is fully and completely destroyed.

Please consider this when reading the verses you posted above.

Peace out Shawn...

:cloud9: :thumbsup:

[shawn]

I, myself, me.. find the words of Bro. WillieH very up lifting and quite helpful. My reason for this perhaps is that I Iagree with the Word of God..The Bible is very open to the saints who desire to know that Father loves all His creation and that not one is left out of His plan, not even those believers who have a desire to see one lost will be lost. Destroyed, ruined yes to be made over yes, but lost to ET or ED nope, not in His plan. :grin:

You might agree with what he says...but do you agree with how he says it?  Do you think it's needed to abuse other believers?  When someone consistantly crosses other peoples boundries I consider it abusive.  Maybe that is just me.

[shawn]

:msealed:

Give me the serenity to accept the things I can't change...the courage to change what I can...And the wisdom to know the difference...

In Jesus' name - Amen...

Amen.  That sounds familiar for some reason.   :bigGrin:

[shawn]

...maybe I need to work on being a little less sensitive.   :bigGrin:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Truthseeker...

Just wanted to address the OP... and its "proposal"...

Is this what the Jewish victims of HITLER thought?  -- Do you really think they thought: "whats so bad about ANNHILATION, anyway, ...hey, it aint so bad getting BURNED to death... after all, gotta go sometime" 

:omg:   ????????????  :mshock:

willieH  :winkgrin:

[Lefein]

Please, do tell, Lefein.

I agree with Shawn.  I will say no further - I'm already prodding the line, and my point was only to express that he is not alone in his observations, neither is it "just him".

[Lefein]

One of the biggest problems with Annihilation, is that it continues The Law, rather than the Grace of Christ which fulfilled it.

[thinktank]

 


Obviously you have little experience in the dealings of LOVE... Love thinks of OTHERS, not of SELF... and GOD knowing that we are in a condition which is IN PERIL... did just THAT.  Even though you cannot see it in this moment...  :cloud9:
willieH

Ls don't worry about willies remarks, I believe you are sincere in love and the lord and care a great deal about people. Having knowledge that all be saved is not entirely based on love, but is something that is revealed through experience, study and time.

willieH were you not once a non beliver in the salvation of all. So why do you make statements such as these above to fellow believer LS.
Having knowledge of THE Salvation of ALL, YOU think YOURSELF to be BE RIGHTEOUS , and fellow believer LS unrighteous  :thumbdown: when the WORD says THAT all are UNRIGHTEOUS  :dontknow:

:happy3:   :laughing7:

[Beloved Servant]

Oh, just that.
When you said: "I better shut up before...," it seemed like you had more to say than — just that.

[Beloved Servant]

That's not true TTank.
That is preciously why Jesus was stripped naked.