Hello, I'm Travis

[willieH]

Trinity/Lack thereof discussion, I was told (...often...much to my displeasure...) is a forbidden subject, just to toss it out there after catching glimpses of it.

I referred to Jesus Christ as my Lord and my God and Willie didn't seem to think I should write that or something. I was simply defending my faith.

I did not tell you that "I think you should not write that"!  I gave LOGICAL information... which you are welcome to ignore...  :dontknow:

willieH  :HeartThrob:

[willieH]

Trinity/Lack thereof discussion, I was told (...often...much to my displeasure...) is a forbidden subject, just to toss it out there after catching glimpses of it.

I referred to Jesus Christ as my Lord and my God and Willie didn't seem to think I should say that or something. I was simply defending my faith.

You really have nothing to defend.  WillieH believes in Jesus as Saviour, so do I, and most likely anyone you encounter here that agrees with the basics of what Tentmaker wants to share to the world does too.

What exactly is it about tentmaker and our belief that Jesus is Saviour and that Jesus is the only way causes you to think you need to defend your faith?

Again...  :thumbsup:

willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

There are surely guests that come by, and perhaps a few members who aren't re-born believers, but mostly, you're talking to saved people when you're proselytizing the membership.

:cloud9: Amen to that.... :thumbsup:

[LS]

Hello, I'm Travis. I used to post on this forum quite a bit as username arcticmonster2003. I see that account is a guest account so I decided to make a new account, I don't like that old username anyway. I used to believe in some form of universalism, I have repented of that.

I am a Christian. I live in Alaska.

Universalism is a false teaching. My reason for joining the forum is to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God. My life is dedicated completely to Jesus Christ, he is my joy.

Hi Travis, and welcome.   Like you, I do not believe universal salvation is Truth. 

I just want to encourage you to be very honest with yourself and consider why you are here.  Gently, may I offer my story?  I have discussed universal salvation with others for many years at other sites, and read here at TM as well.  I finally joined TM and you know, the honest reason that I did join this board is because deep-down I kept thinking that someone, somewhere, would finally say *something* that would click with me, and I would finally be able to really believe universal salvation was true.  I was counting on this happening ... and then the LORD sent a conviction to my heart that was very humbling.

I won't go into detail, but to my shame I realized I was so certain this would happen that I had stopped praying for others as I ought to ... I wasn't even praying for my own children, not even for their salvation. I was so obsessessed that I allowed myself to be distracted.  The LORD has spent years teaching me and preparing to pray for others because that is SO important ... and here I was instead, utterly neglecting the work HE has given to me to do.

I just want you to think about your purpose here - be honest with yourself and make sure this is not an obsession.  I don't mean any of this "against" the good people here - I know they love our LORD, and I still like to chime in and discuss some things here or offer a different viewpoint. 

I don't know if my experience is anything you can learn from, but I felt compelled to share with you and wish you well. 

[willieH]

willieH: Hi "travis"...  :winkgrin:

Trinity/Lack thereof discussion, I was told (...often...much to my displeasure...) is a forbidden subject, just to toss it out there after catching glimpses of it.

I referred to Jesus Christ as my Lord and my God and Willie didn't seem to think I should say that or something. I was simply defending my faith.

You really have nothing to defend.  WillieH believes in Jesus as Saviour, so do I, and most likely anyone you encounter here that agrees with the basics of what Tentmaker wants to share to the world does too.

What exactly is it about tentmaker and our belief that Jesus is Saviour and that Jesus is the only way causes you to think you need to defend your faith?

The best that I can tell, Willie seemed to have some issue with me referring to Jesus Christ as God when I wrote that Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God.

I have no "issue" with it at all, ...I disagree with you AND your positional belief.  :dontknow: 

But as Paul H. has said (and I agree with him)... I do not therefore believe that you are or will not be "saved"... If you believe in the name of CHRIST  and have called upon it from your heart, then the peripherals just have to do with the spreading of TRUTH or not... they are not "salavation issues" as most Christian churches like to put it!  :laughing7:

Churches and theologians put up "requirements" to be "saved"... as if THEY decide who shall be saved and how... :rolleye: 

SAVING men from and out of DEATH is the WORK of GOD, not men... but if men are submitted to GOD, then they have the potential to be involved in that work or not... which as well, is the call of GOD, not men anyway. :nod:

My faith is that God became a man an lived a perfect sinless life and died on the cross for our sins and was raised again three days later so that whosoever believes in him for forgiveness of sins and salvation will be saved.

That you have placed within your own personal "statement of faith" that God "became a man" is not the relevent portion of it.  That you believe that CHRIST died for your sins, and have acknowledged that He DID this and is the SON of GOD, in your heart, ...is!  -- Rom 10:9 -- Rom 14:11 --  Phil 2:11 -- 1 John 4:15

Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God.

:JCThink: ...ah... oh yeah, ...that is your position as we already know.   :nod:

Willie seemed to have some issue with the "God" part of that sentence.

No "issue", -- :mnah: -- just disagreement, ...which disagreement was logically and Scripturally presented to you and you have ignored it...  and I have no problem whatsoever with your holding your position.  :happygrin:

CHRIST  is an UNCHANGING and ETERNAL entity, and if He WAS the expressed IMAGE of God, then He IS ETERNALLY the EXPRESSED IMAGE of Him...

willieH  :HeartThrob:

[willieH]

We preach Christ here, so rejoice.......

Out of 267 members, including Travis, I'd guess 99%+ believe Jesus is God's Son, that He died for our sins and rose again, and that He is our Savior.   Isn't that supposed to be our common bond?

:thumbsup:

willieH  :HeartThrob:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi "Travis"...  :happygrin:

Continuing my "catch-up" (not ketchup!  :laughing7:)

Universalism seems to forget about the goats, or explain them away.

Matthew 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This is in a SPIRITUAL writing/quotation... which CHRIST  spoke with on a continuous basis.  That YOU and most Christians take this writing in both SYMBOLIC and LITERAL observation together, proclaiming each according to WHIM, is IMO where the problems lie.

It is an entire discussion as to what the "sheep and goats" truly symbolize in this SPIRITUAL statement.  There are many things to consider in the observation of these words, which most Christians do not include, nor do they acknowledge... no point in going into detail about it in the "WELCOME Travis" thread.  :laughing7:

An ATHEIST (holding the position that there IS NO GOD), can and WILL come up with the very same deduction that YOU have, concerning "sheep and goats" by reading this passage. 

How can the deduction of the WORD, of an DISBELIEVER in the existence of CHRIST  (the WORD), therefore be considered TRUE?

The WORD of YHVH  is SPIRITUALLY discerned and understood. -- 1 Cor 2:14 --- The ATHEIST is not concerned with nor "believes" in a SPIRITUAL position... The WORD  itself elimnates UNDERSTANDING of SPIRITUAL text, by one who is in the NATURAL... which "ATHEISTS" most CERTAINLY are...  :dontknow:

willieH  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I just want you to think about your purpose here - be honest with yourself and make sure this is not an obsession.  I don't mean any of this "against" the good people here - I know they love our LORD, and I still like to chime in and discuss some things here or offer a different viewpoint. 

I don't know if my experience is anything you can learn from, but I felt compelled to share with you and wish you well.

:thumbsup:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi LS...  :winkgrin:

Hello, I'm Travis. I used to post on this forum quite a bit as username arcticmonster2003. I see that account is a guest account so I decided to make a new account, I don't like that old username anyway. I used to believe in some form of universalism, I have repented of that.

I am a Christian. I live in Alaska.

Universalism is a false teaching. My reason for joining the forum is to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God. My life is dedicated completely to Jesus Christ, he is my joy.

Hi Travis, and welcome.   Like you, I do not believe universal salvation is Truth.

Just because one "believes" this or that, does not necessarily make it so...  :happygrin: 

There are 4 Billion people on this earth that DO NOT "BELIEVE" in CHRIST... which immense NUMBER dwarfs the ones that do (and even further dwarfs the ones which are actively seeking Him in their lives)... so because there are MORE that DISBELIEVE in Him... is that a basis to abandon what we have come to KNOW?  :dontknow:

I just want to encourage you to be very honest with yourself and consider why you are here.  Gently, may I offer my story?  I have discussed universal salvation with others for many years at other sites, and read here at TM as well.  I finally joined TM and you know, the honest reason that I did join this board is because deep-down I kept thinking that someone, somewhere, would finally say *something* that would click with me, and I would finally be able to really believe universal salvation was true.  I was counting on this happening ... and then the LORD sent a conviction to my heart that was very humbling.

Some go throughout an entire LIFETIME 50-60-70-80 years, and at the very end of it and for a miniscule amount of time "believe" (compared to their period of DISBELIEF)... yet that small amount of time (almost insignificant to the total), still brings them to their SAVIOR!  :boogie: 

That you have yet to have the VEIL lifted, does not therefore mean that it is not in place concerning your present observations...  :dontknow:

I won't go into detail, but to my shame I realized I was so certain this would happen that I had stopped praying for others as I ought to ... I wasn't even praying for my own children, not even for their salvation. I was so obsessessed that I allowed myself to be distracted.  The LORD has spent years teaching me and preparing to pray for others because that is SO important ... and here I was instead, utterly neglecting the work HE has given to me to do.

That anyone is REVEALED to the Salvation of ALL, does not mean that they are to CEASE their prayer life.  We are instructed by the SAVIOR which we "believe" saves us... to pray.  There is no instruction given by Him that during the course of life, prayer CEASES to be necessary.  That YOU experienced a "lull" in this portion of your life, does not mean that the teaching of UR is therefore responsible for your lack.

That is just another version of passing the buck... and laying blame upon something outside yourself, for what YOU did or did not do, concerning your "beliefs"...  :sigh:

I just want you to think about your purpose here - be honest with yourself and make sure this is not an obsession.  I don't mean any of this "against" the good people here - I know they love our LORD, and I still like to chime in and discuss some things here or offer a different viewpoint.

Very nice... we welcome anyone to the Tent... without DEMANDING they believe in UR.  There is an unsaid reciprocation of this practice necessary for those who do not believe in it.  :dontknow:

I don't know if my experience is anything you can learn from, but I felt compelled to share with you and wish you well.

At least "Travis" has company...  Many are in transition in this life... that "Travis" and yourself are here in opposition of UR, does not mean that what you both "believe" at present, is "WRITTEN in STONE"... for if it is... then you have nothing left to learn from the Almighty.

In order to gain further enlightenment... we must continue to keep our hearts open to be filled, while holding true to ourselves and what we "believe" in the moment... Then as with PAUL on the road to Damascus... we can have an EYE "opening" experience that BLINDS us at the very same time!  :mshock:

Keep your hearts open to God,  LS... and "Travis"... your "eye -- opening/blindness" is yet to come!  :cloud9:

:Peace:


willieH  :HeartThrob:

[LS]

Just because one "believes" this or that, does not necessarily make it so...

... Very nice... we welcome anyone to the Tent... without DEMANDING they believe in UR.  There is an unsaid reciprocation of this practice necessary for those who do not believe in it.  :dontknow:

If I have not reciprocated, my most sincere apologies. 

I take seriously the sentiments in this post and make every attempt to simply present what I believe without being forceful or disrespectful to others.

Actually, that was part of the reason I'm asking Travis to reflect on why he is posting here and how he hopes to communicate with others - nobody likes a bully or being treated disrespectfully    :mblush:

[Beloved Servant]

I commend Brother Willie for mentioning that.

Some of the slander that crawls out of the pit onto this board is horrendous.

But, Jesus says that we will be persecuted for His name and thus we are.

[CHB]

What has always been amazing to me is, 99 percent of religion believes that eternal life is a gift from God but 99 percent believe we have to work for it in some way. Duh!!  If something is free why pray tell would you want to pay for it?

I look at it like this, if I owed the bank 100,000,00  for my house and my brother paid it for me, {which Jesus did} why would the bank keep sending me bills for it? If I went to the bank and kept trying to pay this loan that had already been paid, after a while they would call the men in white coats. Also wouldn't that prove I didn't trust that my brother had paid the loan? Isn't that what we do in the case of Christ dying for our sins?

Folks, it's a done deal. Wallow in it, shout it, be happy that we are saved, praise God. Don't try to make the salvation that Jesus paid his life for a burden to any one.

CHB

[Paul Hazelwood]

What has always been amazing to me is, 99 percent of religion believes that eternal life is a gift from God but 99 percent believe we have to work for it in some way. Duh!!  If something is free why pray tell would you want to pay for it?

I look at it like this, if I owed the bank 100,000,00  for my house and my brother paid it for me, {which Jesus did} why would the bank keep sending me bills for it? If I went to the bank and kept trying to pay this loan that had already been paid, after a while they would call the men in white coats. Also wouldn't that prove I didn't trust that my brother had paid the loan? Isn't that what we do in the case of Christ dying for our sins?

Folks, it's a done deal. Wallow in it, shout it, be happy that we are saved, praise God. Don't try to make the salvation that Jesus paid his life for a burden to any one.

CHB

The typical analogy is I have 5 bucks in my hand and it is yours, all you have to do is accept it and take it.

It is the "taking it" that is not seen as a  "work".


An analogy I have used is that if someone pays my heating bill it is paid whether I accept it or not.   Chances are,  sooner or later in my area, I am going to want to turen the heat on.   :icon_jokercolor:

[CHB]

Paul, actually neither yours or my analogy is the best one because we both know what the prize, reward will be. Our anology is something we can see and have experienced. Not true with our salvation, no one can see nor really know what they are receiving because no one has experienced it that can tell us what we are accepting or rejecting. How can you reject or accept something that you don't understand or have experienced?

CHB

[Travis]

Travis, in your answer to me you gave your opinion on what you understand to be "universalism" vs. the "true gospel".   Since you apparently believe you understand this, and have the true gospel, will you answer me this?

Are you affiliated with a denomination now, and if so, which one?  And if not, with what "group" do you align yourself, i.e., charismatic, independent baptist, etc.  (I'll answer appropriate questions you may ask of me, if that will help you answer this).

Also, you're getting some very good Biblical, Spirit-revealed responses to your assertions.  Are you listening as well, or are you just here to spam with your own level of understanding?  I.e., are you open to God showing you anything further than exactly what you've currently settled on, or set in concrete so here to convince those already believing on Jesus that they're not believers?  There are surely guests that come by, and perhaps a few members who aren't re-born believers, but mostly, you're talking to saved people when you're proselytizing the membership. 

So what's your point, because it sounds like you may be generally judging (treating) people who believe in UR as not being saved?

Thanks, James.

I am not affiliated with any demonination. I am a Christian. Some of my favorite teachers are Scott Johnson http://www.contendingfortruth.com/  and Augusto Perez    http://www.thebyteshow.com/AugustoPerez.html

I am presenting the Gospel here because I don't remember people presenting the Gospel very often when I used to post here. Also, when I used to post here I was in quite a bit of sin, meaning bonds of sin, lifestyle types of sin, and I never felt challenged or worried about it too much. It wasn't until I really broke away from this forum and started listening to other teachings that I started really feeling the proper amount of conviction for my sins. Since, at that time, I believed in a form of universalism, I felt like everyone was going to heaven and so I put aside conviction I guess, or talked myself out of it. I guess you could say, I never had really repented of my sins, and so I seemed to be on a slippery slope. I was here in this condition, and so I believe it is fully possible there are others here at this forum in this condition. Plus, surely there are guests who read the posts here as well.

I came to present the Gospel here, because I felt like there are people here who need it. I like to present the Gospel, I have at other forums as well, for instance feel free to look at my post here: http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/topic/Repent-and-believe-in-Jesus-Christ/419321

I am not open to the universalism message because I believe that I have been shown that an eternal punishment exists for those whom die in their sins. I did believe in some form of universalism, and I was led out of that belief, and repented of it.

[micah7:9]

You are yet asleep. You may accept that as a cold or course remark, it is not. You need to stop and listen, if you have ears to hear. What Our Saviour has said to us, the Beloved, is not a message that leaves any from His Love. Jesus loved one and  Jesus loves ALL. When a person who believes in a Loving Jesus and can believe and love that same Jesus and yet still accept a doctrine that leaves even one soul out from under His all encompassing arms of love, knows nothing of the love of God.

Peace and Love Through Jesus     

PS that is not my  :2c: its LOVE

[Lefein]

I'm going to have to ask plainly though - since you are proselytising to me even (are you not?).

Prove to me from the scriptures, that Ultimate Reconciliation, that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, and wills all men to be saved and shall have his will indeed; will fail in his will, task, and omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent endeavour.  Prove to me, preferentially from the original languages/manuscript languages, as these are the most accurate, and unbiased accounts we currently have that despite what the scriptures, and even the very title of Christ "Saviour of all men" says - that he is indeed not the "Saviour of all men" but is instead the "Saviour of a very tiny few compared to the rest of the billions who have lived and died without him".

How is it that God, who came in the flesh, one with the omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent Father - who sees the end from the beginning, who sees trillions of years after the resurrection, and the judgement, and the giving of the son's kingdom to the Father - the Father who sees from trillions of years before the world was even formless and void, to the very edge of conceivable endlessness...Could call himself the Saviour of All Men, knowing full well from his position in the future beyond reckoning that he will indeed not save all men, but only the elect few - and not be bearing false witness, lying?

Knowing all of this, God's all knowing nature - in light of all of this, why would God having known that the vast majority of his images, his likenesses would be eternally sinful, eternally tortured, eternally separated from Him - which hurts HIM, as much, and more than it hurts even the sinner - how could he have said through the Apostle by means of the inspiration of his Holy Spirit;

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God's will is for all men to be saved, his counsel shall stand, his will shall be done, and it is his pleasure that his will be done.

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
-
Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


John 12:32  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.  (The very words of God incarnate himself, Jesus the Messiah, who was indeed lifted up on a cross)

So many times he has said "all men".  And it is even said by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit - the God-breathed scriptures - that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men.

If Jesus did not save all men, he would not be the saviour of all men, and the omniscient, omnipresent God who sees the end from the beginning, would be bearing false witness in his own word, written or spoken.  Does the lord bear false witness?  No.  Does the Lord lie?  No he cannot lie, not in title, not in being, not in bearing false witness, and certainly not in his word.  As the Lord Liveth he is the Saviour of all men indeed, lest he be a false witness bearer, and a liar, and is really only the saviour of a few, a very small few...

Let us reason together, I am not asking for a sign from Heaven, I am being a good Berean, a Berean who searched the scriptures to see if the things you are saying are indeed true.  I want you to oblige, and prove to me that this Gospel (if you are willing to do so), this "good news" this "well message" that the vast majority of the human race, images of God, knit together in their mother's wombs - shall suffer so horribly in eternal damnation, and ceaseless torture, separated forever away from God, in Hell.

I do not mean to sound harsh, if I am coming across as such.  But this is certainly important enough, and important enough indeed not to let slip by in your mind to answer.  People will not fall so easily to a mere advertisement of God, they will have questions, and they will want answers, and God is a God who answers...

If Hell is real, and surely it is not - here is how horrible it would inevitably be, and worse;  The rapist rapes and is raped, eternally, without end, without remorse, without intermission, no death to stop the violation of a person's being, while they violate, perpetually, exponentially, ever perfecting their already dark perfection into the long ages of eternity!  Ever hating, ever increasingly hateing, and ever increasingly lying, ever pursuing what cannot be true, ever running away from the omnipresent God - Such a thing is not sustainable!  Such a thing is impossible to exist, for if it came out of the mind of God to have created a place of such wordless horror, if he created this as a place knowing full well in his omnipresence, and omniscience that the many of the many of the multitudes of his creatures would dwell there plying their infamous wickedness before his very face for eternity and beyond - if he made this, he spoke it into being, and if he spoke it into being then this place of wicked torture came forth from his heart; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and the Lord would be a God of Terror, the infinite God of infinite horrors, Molech en carne ad infinitum...The God of Hate, an unjust God.  No finite sin of man, though terrible indeed, deserves the punishment that is beyond even the very Law - eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.  Such a thing is not Grace, such a thing is untouchably vile.

...it just boggles the mind how such a thing as Hell could come forth from Love, Life, Truth, and Good.  It cannot.  God is not the creator of wickedness.

God is just, and a righteous judge.  Hell is not righteous judgement, it is not lawful - it is beyond the scope of God's being to have made such a terror for his creatures to dwell forever within, ever sinning.

God will not put up with sin forever.  He cannot put up with sin forever.  Hell is the 100% assurance that sin will remain forever, and increase evermore.

Hell is a doctrine out of the pit of itself - a devil's doctrine, it is another Gospel, a false Gospel, a wicked message, and a demon's delight.

Every tongue shall confess, every knee shall bow, everyone will come to the full knowledge of The Truth, Jesus who is The Truth, the life, and the way to these things, he who is Love incarnate.  They will know Truth, they will know Jesus, they will know Love, Life, God, they will praise him, they will confess his name, they will bow to him, they will worship him, they can only do this by the Spirit - they shall have the Spirit, they shall be saved!  They being saved have no place in Hell.

God shall be All in All.  Thus saith the Lord!

[micah7:9]

The Love Of God speaks more loudly than any debate would cause a change of mind. This one verse is but one of many, if you doubt it, you prove He will or cannot make this verse as a Truth.

1Co 15:22  For, just as, in the Adam, all die, so, also, in the Christ, shall all be made alive.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[jabcat]

Thanks for asnwering Travis.  Now please be kind enough to diligently consider the replies.  James.

[jabcat]

[I am presenting the Gospel here because I don't remember people presenting the Gospel very often when I used to post here. Also, when I used to post here I was in quite a bit of sin, meaning bonds of sin, lifestyle types of sin, and I never felt challenged or worried about it too much. It wasn't until I really broke away from this forum and started listening to other teachings that I started really feeling the proper amount of conviction for my sins. Since, at that time, I believed in a form of universalism, I felt like everyone was going to heaven and so I put aside conviction I guess, or talked myself out of it. I guess you could say, I never had really repented of my sins, and so I seemed to be on a slippery slope. I was here in this condition, and so I believe it is fully possible there are others here at this forum in this condition. Plus, surely there are guests who read the posts here as well.

I came to present the Gospel here, because I felt like there are people here who need it. I like to present the Gospel, I have at other forums as well, for instance feel free to look at my post here: http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/topic/Repent-and-believe-in-Jesus-Christ/419321

I am not open to the universalism message because I believe that I have been shown that an eternal punishment exists for those whom die in their sins. I did believe in some form of universalism, and I was led out of that belief, and repented of it.

You believe people here need to hear the gospel;  what specifically do you base that on?  That just about anywhere there are folks that aren't saved, or something specifically about this forum and/or its beliefs?

Also, since God led me out of ET, I find His Fire still burns hot in me, perhaps even hotter in some ways than when I was in ET - not because of me, my efforts or goodness etc. - but because He puts it there, and because He IS Who He IS.

Maybe you had a "wrong" idea about true Bible-based, Jesus-centered UR?  Did you believe it was an "anything goes, get out of hell free card"?  OTOH, how does living a life of obedience to the Lord now fit with ET?  Do you find the threat of ET is what makes you more obedient and/or diligent, or something else?

Thanks, James.

[thinktank]

I am not affiliated with any demonination. I am a Christian. Some of my favorite teachers are Scott Johnson http://www.contendingfortruth.com/  and Augusto Perez    http://www.thebyteshow.com/AugustoPerez.html

I am presenting the Gospel here because I don't remember people presenting the Gospel very often when I used to post here. Also, when I used to post here I was in quite a bit of sin, meaning bonds of sin, lifestyle types of sin, and I never felt challenged or worried about it too much. It wasn't until I really broke away from this forum and started listening to other teachings that I started really feeling the proper amount of conviction for my sins. Since, at that time, I believed in a form of universalism, I felt like everyone was going to heaven and so I put aside conviction I guess, or talked myself out of it. I guess you could say, I never had really repented of my sins, and so I seemed to be on a slippery slope. I was here in this condition, and so I believe it is fully possible there are others here at this forum in this condition. Plus, surely there are guests who read the posts here as well.

I came to present the Gospel here, because I felt like there are people here who need it. I like to present the Gospel, I have at other forums as well, for instance feel free to look at my post here: http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/topic/Repent-and-believe-in-Jesus-Christ/419321

I am not open to the universalism message because I believe that I have been shown that an eternal punishment exists for those whom die in their sins. I did believe in some form of universalism, and I was led out of that belief, and repented of it.
Travis


Hello, one thing you have passion to present the gospel of Christ. But on that theforumsite did notice that the members there were not responding to the ET message? Did you notice that they were turning away from your message because of that threat.
People are blaspheming God these days because they hate him. But why do people hate a God of love?
A lot, but not all hate the ET message because it is not love, but it is evil, and everyone hates evil, there are not many fans of Hilter etc because the axis did evil things, such as killing people for no reason. Does God torture people for no reason?

[Paul Hazelwood]

I am not open to the universalism message because I believe that I have been shown that an eternal punishment exists for those whom die in their sins. I did believe in some form of universalism, and I was led out of that belief, and repented of it.

Travis, whether you realize it or not, statements like you're making can be made from any point of view, they are empty.   I can say the same thing.   I have been shown that eternal punishment does not exist for those whom die in their sins.  I did believe in some form of eternal punishment and I was led out of that believe and repented of it.

It carries as much weight if I use that.   If you try to use some form of pascals wager in response the issue is whether your brand of the "gospel" actually can be demonstrated to save you as opposed to another brand of the Gospel that applies different conditions on salvation.

For instance. Do you believe that if you never speak in tongues that you aren't saved?  You might say that tongues is not a requirement for salvation, but some who preach the gospel will say that being filled with the Holy Spirit is a requirement of salvation and that manifests in speaking in tongues, then there is a determination between just babble and a genuine manifestation of a spiritual language.   

I point this out because,  you could simply be bringing a false gospel that you have been deceived into believing and do not truly offer the way to salvation.

To me this isn't about Universalism vs the "real" gospel as you imply here.  It is about whether your beliefs actually save anyone.

The reason is because if you do not respect the fact that we believe in Jesus Christ, then your own belief in Jesus Christ is as easily suspect as false.

[Quaesitor]

I am not open to the universalism message because I believe that I have been shown that an eternal punishment exists for those whom die in their sins. I did believe in some form of universalism, and I was led out of that belief, and repented of it.

Travis, whether you realize it or not, statements like you're making can be made from any point of view, they are empty.   I can say the same thing.   I have been shown that eternal punishment does not exist for those whom die in their sins.  I did believe in some form of eternal punishment and I was led out of that believe and repented of it.

It carries as much weight if I use that.   If you try to use some form of pascals wager in response the issue is whether your brand of the "gospel" actually can be demonstrated to save you as opposed to another brand of the Gospel that applies different conditions on salvation.

For instance. Do you believe that if you never speak in tongues that you aren't saved?  You might say that tongues is not a requirement for salvation, but some who preach the gospel will say that being filled with the Holy Spirit is a requirement of salvation and that manifests in speaking in tongues, then there is a determination between just babble and a genuine manifestation of a spiritual language.   

I point this out because,  you could simply be bringing a false gospel that you have been deceived into believing and do not truly offer the way to salvation.

To me this isn't about Universalism vs the "real" gospel as you imply here.  It is about whether your beliefs actually save anyone.

The reason is because if you do not respect the fact that we believe in Jesus Christ, then your own belief in Jesus Christ is as easily suspect as false.

:2thumbs:

[thinktank]

I hate it when I look at the latest post and all I see is a thumbs up  :laughing7:  I come all this way, just to see a thumbs up  :laughing7: . I'm not against it mind you, I think encouragment is a very good thing, as long as it's good.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I hate it when I look at the latest post and all I see is a thumbs up  :laughing7:  I come all this way, just to see a thumbs up  :laughing7: . I'm not against it mind you, I think encouragment is a very good thing, as long as it's good.

:thumbsup:


:happy3: