Christ's death

[Beloved Servant]

On point today Sister Molly,
your last three blessed me.

[Molly]

Psalm 23
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

[micah7:9]

Gen. 2:7 is my understanding of a living soul, a life, a person, a human being.

A living soul which, because of Jesus, will never die.  Do you believe this?  I've given you plenty of scripture.  Never.  He says never.  Is Jesus a liar?

That living soul of which you speak is Gen 2:17  and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
I a walking dead man, and according to the Bible Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,
Rom 6:23  For, the wages of sin, is death; but, God's gift of favour, is life age-abiding, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[micah7:9]

Psalm 23
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Again      3He restoreth my life or breath:

[Molly]

Gen. 2:7 is my understanding of a living soul, a life, a person, a human being.

A living soul which, because of Jesus, will never die.  Do you believe this?  I've given you plenty of scripture.  Never.  He says never.  Is Jesus a liar?

That living soul of which you speak is Gen 2:17  and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
I a walking dead man, and according to the Bible Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,
Rom 6:23  For, the wages of sin, is death; but, God's gift of favour, is life age-abiding, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Micah, I already died.  Why are you ignoring the whole New Testament?


3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

--Rom 6



And, what do you think 'age abiding' life is?  Until I reach age 75 or something?

[thinktank]

The soul of Samuel, could be in fact his spirit man who is made in Gods image, but because there is no atonment he cannot access heaven yet.

I have only seen 3 verses which support.imply the idea of a dead soul still living, as a ghost, but these verses might be mistranslated, perhaps it meant the spirit departs rather than the soul departs, if that being the case in all 3 verses, then the soul means in these cases, the spirit man.

But if it is indeed means a soul, then it seems that a soul can live after death, as well as the spirit man, which means we have 2 ghosts. The spirit man ghost would be the thinking inside a soul, the god part of us that can do amazing things, and the soul ghost part would be the "product" of this thinking, so if one thinks bad thoughts and does evil, he receives an evil soul but if one thinks good thoughts, then one would receive an evil soul. Jesus said that they would be rewarded according to their deeds whether they be good or evil in their bodies.

From creation it seems that the spirit part of us can be seperate from the soul, because it was created before man had a body and breath = soul

An animal is called soul too, so can animals continue to live after they die?
I don't think they can, there is no evidence. So why should a soul of a human continue to live as a ghost? or as a soul, as opposed to a "living soul" which has breath ing in the land of earth.
I think the answer could be that the spirit man, is still connected to the soul and probably attached to it, that the soul is the spirit mans host, because that's what it's used too. So if the earthly body dies, the soul still exists because the spirit man gives it electricity and power to keep on living as a ghost, (maybe this is why without Jesus one dies, without connection to the father the spirit man eventually runs out of life spark) so the spirit man's earthly identity remains as in the case of Samuel, but his spirit man allowed Samuel to understand Sauls situation, probably because the spirit man within us knows a great deal more than our soul, and this is where we receive revelation from.

[Molly]

Psalm 23
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Again      3He restoreth my life or breath:

Again    and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

[Lefein]

I'll be honest, I was kinda looking forward to living forever in blissful sweetness the day I shed this annoying old tent of a temple...Even if I had to wait a little while longer for a body - I'd still be in God's presence with my future helper who would likewise shed her gloriously beautiful and fearfully, and carefully made silk tent of a temple...with azure blue stained glass windows to the soul of the tent  :HeartThrob: :happygrin: (I find that it is a statement of faith to flirt ahead of time :mblush:)

(I still am looking forward to it)

[micah7:9]

Gen. 2:7 is my understanding of a living soul, a life, a person, a human being.

A living soul which, because of Jesus, will never die.  Do you believe this?  I've given you plenty of scripture.  Never.  He says never.  Is Jesus a liar?

That living soul of which you speak is Gen 2:17  and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
I a walking dead man, and according to the Bible Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,
Rom 6:23  For, the wages of sin, is death; but, God's gift of favour, is life age-abiding, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Micah, I already died.  Why are you ignoring the whole New Testament?  Ok then why does Beloved Servant say, and I quote
" In the meantime, I have to knock Adam back into the grave everyday."





3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

--Rom 6



And, what do you think 'age abiding' life is?  Until I reach age 75 or something?

[micah7:9]

Micah, I already died.  Why are you ignoring the whole New Testament? (Molly)  You aint dead and in the grave. What part of the NT am iI ignoring? We are talking now what a soul is, and you will not give me scripture and verse, you keep going to other things. Please answer that one question.
If so why does Beloved Servant say, and I quote
" In the meantime, I have to knock Adam back into the grave everyday."

[thinktank]

I'll be honest, I was kinda looking forward to living forever in blissful sweetness the day I shed this annoying old tent of a temple...Even if I had to wait a little while longer for a body - I'd still be in God's presence with my future helper who would likewise shed her gloriously beautiful and fearfully, and carefully made silk tent of a temple...with azure blue stained glass windows to the soul of the tent  :HeartThrob: :happygrin: (I find that it is a statement of faith to flirt ahead of time :mblush:)

(I still am looking forward to it)

Practicing flirting already casanova  :laughing7:

Without the soul though, you wont need any practice, your spirit man will have access to know all things, so you wont be the only sweet talker in heaven  :laughing7:.

This is one advantage of having a soul, is the joy of learning and experiencing new things.

[Lefein]

The soul of Samuel, could be in fact his spirit man who is made in Gods image, but because there is no atonment he cannot access heaven yet.

I have only seen 3 verses which support.imply the idea of a dead soul still living, as a ghost, but these verses might be mistranslated, perhaps it meant the spirit departs rather than the soul departs, if that being the case in all 3 verses, then the soul means in these cases, the spirit man.

The thing about Samuel though, is that he can converse, and prophesy, and has memories, and the things that a soul is ascribed to having.  The New Testament gives us a glimpse into the soul when we consider the facts.

The spirit is made pure, and holy, and perfect - since it is the dwelling place of God in us, as far as I recall anyway. I don't have a verse off hand but maybe soon.

The Body remains wicked, and sinful, and well..common sense says that it is sinful still, and sins - I know my body hasn't been perfect as of late...

So then where does that sin come from?  Because sin begins in the heart before it begins in the body, like adultery, or murder for example.  So where does this hate, and adultery, and sin that we still struggle with come from?  It can't come from our spirit, because that is holy, and holy things don't do that.  It doesn't reside in the body itself, because Jesus said it starts in the heart first.  So the only thing we're left with is the soul, and so the soul is not perfect because it produces still sinful thoughts, which become sinful actions.

Now, considering that it produces thoughts; we know that thoughts are driven by emotions, will, desires, and circumstances, and so the soul are these things, the soul is the realm of thought, while the spirit is our "being" (we are holy in the sight of God, even with rotten souls that are still being purified...the body is disposable, we're getting a new one anyway).

This is why I conclude that Samuel had a soul after death, because he was able to basically be a thinking being, not just a being.

But if it is indeed means a soul, then it seems that a soul can live after death, as well as the spirit man, which means we have 2 ghosts. The spirit man ghost would be the thinking inside a soul, the god part of us that can do amazing things, and the soul ghost part would be the "product" of this thinking, so if one thinks bad thoughts and does evil, he receives an evil soul but if one thinks good thoughts, then one would receive an evil soul. Jesus said that they would be rewarded according to their deeds whether they be good or evil in their bodies.

Our thoughts change as we think, and act.  So our soul changes as we use it - exercise works on the soul too, as well as the body.  The problem comes when we let our souls which are still impure do the controlling, instead of our spirit which is righteous.

I don't think we are "two ghosts" I think it is more like, you have a glass covered in dust full of water.  The glass is the soul, the water is spirit, and the dust on it is a body.  Poor example perhaps, but when you think of a glass of water, you tend to think of it as "one unit" not a glass, and water.  If that makes sense.

From creation it seems that the spirit part of us can be seperate from the soul, because it was created before man had a body and breath = soul

Unless the breath carried the soul with it.  I think we being in the body, tend to put too much emphasis on the body as a fundamental necessity for existing, or even being sentient.  This is not true, as shown in Samuel's case.  We can be sentient even disembodied, so it makes little sense to say;

"The body is required for sentience (you have to be "alive" to be sentient) yet one can be sentient without a body."

But perhaps that isn't what you are getting at, it is late for me.

An animal is called soul too, so can animals continue to live after they die?

I certainly hope so.  I'd be a bit displeased with God if I couldn't see my beloved cat when I get up there.  That's 3rd on my list of things I want to see right when I get past the gate.

I don't think they can, there is no evidence. So why should a soul of a human continue to live as a ghost? or as a soul, as opposed to a "living soul" which has breath ing in the land of earth.

Well, not to sound spooky, but people do seem to believe in ghosts, perhaps there is truth to it afterall, considering the lack of an eternal torture chamber for the unsaved dead.

I think the answer could be that the spirit man, is still connected to the soul and probably attached to it, that the soul is the spirit mans host, because that's what it's used too. So if the earthly body dies, the soul still exists because the spirit man gives it electricity and power to keep on living as a ghost, (maybe this is why without Jesus one dies, without connection to the father the spirit man eventually runs out of life spark) so the spirit man's earthly identity remains as in the case of Samuel, but his spirit man allowed Samuel to understand Sauls situation, probably because the spirit man within us knows a great deal more than our soul, and this is where we receive revelation from.

Possible, I am more inclined to agree with parts of this statement.

Practicing flirting already casanova  :laughing7:

You wouldn't know it from my looks, but I won most flirtacious in the highschool yearbook  :happygrin:

Without the soul though, you wont need any practice, your spirit man will have access to know all things, so you wont be the only sweet talker in heaven  :laughing7:.

God knows I could use his wisdom when it comes to that  :laughing7:

This is one advantage of having a soul, is the joy of learning and experiencing new things.

Amen. :)

[Molly]

If so why does Beloved Servant say, and I quote
" In the meantime, I have to knock Adam back into the grave everyday."

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.



Philippians 1:21
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

[micah7:9]

What does that have to do with knocking Adam in the grave everyday??

[micah7:9]

These "elders of Israel" had come to Ezekiel to hear what they wanted to hear, not what Ezekiel had been told by God to say. Here is who God tells us has so deceived those who come to His Word seeking to make it say what they want it to say:

Eze 14:7  For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8  And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Attempting to communicate with dead people who know nothing is certainly "separating oneself from God" and is the result of being deceived by the Lord Himself. "I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

These elders of Israel were like people to day, and like the witch of Endor and like King Saul, who could care less that God had forbidden His people from attempting to communicate with those who "know not anything." That is right, God had already forbidden such nonsense, but those who ignore the truth are susceptible to such nonsense, despite the clear words of God to the contrary:

Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [One who claims to communicates with the dead]
Deu 18:12  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
All who attempt to communicate with the dead "are an abomination unto the Lord." So do not get involved in such abominable practices. I hope this is of some help to you

[Molly]

What does that have to do with knocking Adam in the grave everyday??

It's another way of saying we are renewing our minds daily to the good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.

Isn't that what Jesus did?

But I really should let Beloved Servant speak for himself.

[Molly]

These "elders of Israel" had come to Ezekiel to hear what they wanted to hear, not what Ezekiel had been told by God to say. Here is who God tells us has so deceived those who come to His Word seeking to make it say what they want it to say:

Eze 14:7  For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8  And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Attempting to communicate with dead people who know nothing is certainly "separating oneself from God" and is the result of being deceived by the Lord Himself. "I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

These elders of Israel were like people to day, and like the witch of Endor and like King Saul, who could care less that God had forbidden His people from attempting to communicate with those who "know not anything." That is right, God had already forbidden such nonsense, but those who ignore the truth are susceptible to such nonsense, despite the clear words of God to the contrary:

Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [One who claims to communicates with the dead]
Deu 18:12  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
All who attempt to communicate with the dead "are an abomination unto the Lord." So do not get involved in such abominable practices. I hope this is of some help to you

Agreed.  But blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.

He is faithful to his word.

[micah7:9]

SOUL in the NT according to Dr. Strong  G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Now we know that Strong is in error when he states "which is the rational and immortal soul" because we know there is no immortal soul.

That is the deffinition of soul what say you?

[micah7:9]

These "elders of Israel" had come to Ezekiel to hear what they wanted to hear, not what Ezekiel had been told by God to say. Here is who God tells us has so deceived those who come to His Word seeking to make it say what they want it to say:

Eze 14:7  For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8  And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Attempting to communicate with dead people who know nothing is certainly "separating oneself from God" and is the result of being deceived by the Lord Himself. "I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

These elders of Israel were like people to day, and like the witch of Endor and like King Saul, who could care less that God had forbidden His people from attempting to communicate with those who "know not anything." That is right, God had already forbidden such nonsense, but those who ignore the truth are susceptible to such nonsense, despite the clear words of God to the contrary:

Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [One who claims to communicates with the dead]
Deu 18:12  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
All who attempt to communicate with the dead "are an abomination unto the Lord." So do not get involved in such abominable practices. I hope this is of some help to you

Agreed.  But blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.

He is faithful to his word.

Just what do you mean???  Do you think Samuel was called up? Remember Ecc 9:5  For, the living, knew that they should die,—-but, the dead, knew not, anything, neither had they any longer a reward, because forgotten was their memory.

[Lefein]

because we know there is no immortal soul.

Really?

[thinktank]

These "elders of Israel" had come to Ezekiel to hear what they wanted to hear, not what Ezekiel had been told by God to say. Here is who God tells us has so deceived those who come to His Word seeking to make it say what they want it to say:

Eze 14:7  For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8  And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Attempting to communicate with dead people who know nothing is certainly "separating oneself from God" and is the result of being deceived by the Lord Himself. "I the Lord have deceived that prophet."

These elders of Israel were like people to day, and like the witch of Endor and like King Saul, who could care less that God had forbidden His people from attempting to communicate with those who "know not anything." That is right, God had already forbidden such nonsense, but those who ignore the truth are susceptible to such nonsense, despite the clear words of God to the contrary:

Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [One who claims to communicates with the dead]
Deu 18:12  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
All who attempt to communicate with the dead "are an abomination unto the Lord." So do not get involved in such abominable practices. I hope this is of some help to you

believing in ghosts is a different matter to communicating to them. Saul tried that and got punished for it.

[Lefein]

but, the dead, knew not, anything, neither had they any longer a reward, because forgotten was their memory.

Just incase you are interpreting this to mean that the dead don't keep their memories; this verse is saying that the dead won't be remembered by the living (or for very long anyway).

How many of the old Greek farmers do we remember?  Not everyone is famous enough to be remembered by men in the land of the living.

[thinktank]

Yeah that sems to make sense, that book is mostly about building up earthly riches and then at the end ralizing that all will be lost and none of it can be carried over.

[micah7:9]

"I the LORD have deceived that prophet." Dont you get it Thinktank, if there was anybody raised up, the Lord did it. just for that particular time, He set up the situation. Remember the word Saul recieved from Samuel was the same word that Samuel had told him earlier; God was not gonna help him.  Saul heard nothing knew, he just got what his desire was, God can do that you know.

[thinktank]

So oyur saying God gave him a vision?