Christ's death

[micah7:9]

1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

[Beloved Servant]

Amen, Abraham left Babylon.

[Lefein]

Is it possible, that Soul and Spirit are the same thing, merely manifested through two mediums?

After all, both the words used for soul; nephesh, and psyche come from root words; Naphash, and Psucho - which both carry the concept of Breath, just as Ruach, and Pneuma are "Breath".

Soul - Spirit in terms of being a living agent or being.

Spirit - The direct reference to itself - Life.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: Male and female created He THEM, ie. they were BOTH, male and female in one, both soul and spirit in one vessel. Remember He called THEIR name Adam, and He created them BOTH male and female. It witnesses the fact there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus; not because there is either/or, but because there is BOTH.
Amen!


The soul is a WITNESS. The creation is a witness to the Spirit of God; it reflects His glory and principles of the kingdom. Blessings....

I dont see where the soul is a witness.
There is no soul without the coupling of body and spirit, thats what I have seen.

:cloud9: Adam/spirit/male/sun/greater glory.........Eve/soul/female/moon/lesser glory..........there are always two witnesses, by the law it took two witnesses to convict of anything, and so it was said in the NT, out of the mouth of TWO or more witnesses will every word be established. Blessings....

[Molly]

1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Micah, there is only one other place in the Bible where God breathes on man as he does with Adam, and that is when the glorified Christ breathes on his disciples.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

[Cardinal]

Is it possible, that Soul and Spirit are the same thing, merely manifested through two mediums?

After all, both the words used for soul; nephesh, and psyche come from root words; Naphash, and Psucho - which both carry the concept of Breath, just as Ruach, and Pneuma are "Breath".

Soul - Spirit in terms of being a living agent or being.

Spirit - The direct reference to itself - Life.

:cloud9: You're getting warmer  :happygrin: The soul is as the letter of the Word........apart from the Spirit quickening it, it stays DEAD. Yet it has a lesser "form" of "life", a lesser glory. See it? Blessings....

PS. And not one jot or tittle of that "lesser" glory, the soul, shall pass away (as in anniliation at death of the body) till all be fullfilled (the Spirit quickens the living souls AND the "dead" ones). There is the foundation for UR.

[WhiteWings]

I have no desire to have anything but the truth in my quiver, so I ask, if the first time a word is used in the Bible and its diffention given at that point, is that not the foundation to bulid the foundation on?

There are reasons to believe the Bible is not in the correct order, so what is "first"....?
Read reply #4 and #6

The Bible reveals itself as new books are added. So why wouldn't that be so with word meanings? I think it's just manmade  :blah:
Example. I think many agree darkness/night stands also for evil/sin.
But in the creation account it's defined at having only relation to day and night. That was the first time the words where used.

[micah7:9]

1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Micah, there is only one other place in the Bible where God breathes on man as he does with Adam, and that is when the glorified Christ breathes on his disciples.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

breathed on them John 20:22
breathed in his nostrils Gen.2:7

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Kinda messes you up at first when you see that Christ is/was the Anointed One, doesn't it, Micah?   :winkgrin: Christ is the Seed that bears fruit after "it's" own kind, and "it's" own kind is the Father, and the Father is a SPIRIT.

He is the bread that came down from heaven, the LIFE of which, we drink. Unless a man eat of My flesh and drink of My blood, there is no life in Him. The life is in the blood. It was THIS blood that was taken into the Holy of Holies for us, for flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God.

The Anointed One "died" in the same way God did; by pouring His life/blood out. God "died" by pouring Himself into His creation, the lesser glory. It's only lesser because it's visible, "denser", but has His attributes, His spiritual Truth embodied in it, because how can He truly be any less than what He is? Answer is, He can't.

Jesus the man, was the "creation" that the Word/Anointed One that is SPIRIT, poured Himself into to make flesh or visible. He's doing the same thing with us, one "creation" at a time. My  :2c: Blessings.....

God is SPIRIT not a Spirit

[micah7:9]

I have no desire to have anything but the truth in my quiver, so I ask, if the first time a word is used in the Bible and its diffention given at that point, is that not the foundation to bulid the foundation on?

There are reasons to believe the Bible is not in the correct order, so what is "first"....?
Read reply #4 and #6

The Bible reveals itself as new books are added. So why wouldn't that be so with word meanings? I think it's just manmade  :blah:
Example. I think many agree darkness/night stands also for evil/sin.
Yes that is true
But in the creation account it's defined at having only relation to day and night. That was the first time the words where used.

Psa 139:12  Even darkness, will not conceal from thee,—but, night, like day, will shine, So is the darkness, as the light!

[Lefein]

God is SPIRIT not a Spirit

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. -KJV

Its the KJV, but it kinda makes a little point I guess.

Why can't God be both Spirit by being, and also a Spirit?

It isn't like God being "a" Spirit makes him any less God.  To be Spirit, is to be a Spirit, as to be Human is to be a Human.

Hebrew 12:9 Thereafter, indeed, we had the fathers of our flesh as discipliners, and we respected them. Yet shall we not much rather be subjected to the Father of spirits and be living. -CLV

I see the possibility for there being more than one spirit, in co-existence with God who is Spirit as well as a Spirit (as well as The Spirit).

[micah7:9]

God is SPIRIT not a Spirit

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. -KJV

Its the KJV, but it kinda makes a little point I guess.

Why can't God be both Spirit by being, and also a Spirit?

It isn't like God being "a" Spirit makes him any less God.  To be Spirit, is to be a Spirit, as to be Human is to be a Human.

Heb 12:9  Then, indeed, fathers of our flesh we have had, chastising us , and we were reverencing them ; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of the spirits, and live?

[Lefein]

I added (what is now my explanation, though originally my continued argument) in the above post, probably just as you posted your reply.   :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

I added (what is now my explanation, though originally my continued argument) in the above post, probably just as you posted your reply.   :laughing7:

Eph 4:4  one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;

[Lefein]

If I've learned anything of God, it is that he is always making one=many, and many=one...at the same time.  :happygrin:

Here is a comparative example;

One Jesus - One Body - Many members, made up of many bodies.

The Body of Christ (Jesus' physical body) The Body of Christ (The Ecclesia)

One God - One Spirit - Many spirits, made up of many..uh..spirits! ^^

"God who is Spirit" (God' individual I AMeous being)  "all of one spirit" (the spirits of whom God is the father of)

If that makes sense.

[thinktank]

Hmmn, I still feel for some reason that the spirit of a person, and their soul (mind) go together some how.

Sheol however, gives me pause...The Spirit goes back to God, and so we go to God the all consuming omnipresent fire.  But what of Sheol...

Which spirit though went back to God who gave it? Is is mans spirit as Stephen did when he got stoned or is is the breath of life that is given as a gift to ALL men including nonbelievers. It could be that the spirit within man remins in sheol until Christ returns for the resurection, for nothing unclean can access the heavens, Satan is cast out, also there is a scripture where a spirit man enters heaven and God is wondering , "how did he get in here with those rags, throw him out".

So is sheol a place where the spirit rests, waiting for the redemption of their body at the last trumpet. For no man has ascended into heaven yet according to Jesus.

[thinktank]

God is SPIRIT not a Spirit

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. -KJV

Its the KJV, but it kinda makes a little point I guess.

Why can't God be both Spirit by being, and also a Spirit?

It isn't like God being "a" Spirit makes him any less God.  To be Spirit, is to be a Spirit, as to be Human is to be a Human.

Hebrew 12:9 Thereafter, indeed, we had the fathers of our flesh as discipliners, and we respected them. Yet shall we not much rather be subjected to the Father of spirits and be living. -CLV

I see the possibility for there being more than one spirit, in co-existence with God who is Spirit as well as a Spirit (as well as The Spirit).

Yeah there are many different types of spirit and they all proceed from the Father and holy spirit. E.g Christ spirit, Father spirit, Holy spirit, angels, men, seraphim, cherubim, breath of life spirit, substance spirit. Breath of life spirit is energy that animates living flesh, so that they become souls. Substance spirit is where all material things originate from, even this laptop orginated from substance spirit, an energy that can vibrate at different levels to produce different effects and when it denses it produces so and so material.

[Molly]

1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Micah, there is only one other place in the Bible where God breathes on man as he does with Adam, and that is when the glorified Christ breathes on his disciples.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

breathed on them John 20:22
breathed in his nostrils Gen.2:7

And how do you think those disciples breathed in the Holy Spirit that Jesus breathed on them--through their mouth?

These are parrallel occurrences--the first man breathed into by God [living soul]; the second man breathed into by God [quickening spirit].

Is Paul, then, a quickening spirit, giving life through the Holy Spirit to those who read him? 

1 Corinthians 4:15
Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: And He still does the same things today, since He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. One time I was sent into a Christian bookstore to give the owner a word and while I was praying for her, He told me to breathe on her. He has never done this with me before or since, but when I did as told, she was slain in the Spirit. I wasn't shocked, as I know from experience if He tells me to do something, He intends to follow thru on it or He wouldn't have told me, but I was AMAZED.

He is in us, and He wants to manifest Himself. Getting past the idea that He's just "there" in us, "inanimate and dormant", seems to be the hard part. He is alive, and His body should be showing signs of life, too. My  :2c: Blessings....

[micah7:9]

If I've learned anything of God, it is that he is always making one=many, and many=one...at the same time.  :happygrin:

Here is a comparative example;

One Jesus - One Body - Many members, made up of many bodies.

The Body of Christ (Jesus' physical body) The Body of Christ (The Ecclesia)

One God - One Spirit - Many spirits, made up of many..uh..spirits! ^^

"God who is Spirit" (God' individual I AMeous being)  "all of one spirit" (the spirits of whom God is the father of)

If that makes sense.

Yes

[micah7:9]

Amen, Abraham left Babylon.

Yes Abrahan did, and I believe that a good part of the friends on this forum have left Babylon, but sometimes we find that not all the green trees have been taken down. My  :2c:

[Molly]

Amen, Abraham left Babylon.

Yes Abrahan did, and I believe that a good part of the friends on this forum have left Babylon, but sometimes we find that not all the green trees have been taken down. My  :2c:

Psalm 104:16
The trees of the LORD are well watered, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted.

[micah7:9]

Amen, Abraham left Babylon.

Yes Abrahan did, and I believe that a good part of the friends on this forum have left Babylon, but sometimes we find that not all the green trees have been taken down. My  :2c:

Psalm 104:16
The trees of the LORD are well watered, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted.

I believe I wrote green trees, there is a difference.

[micah7:9]

Since just about everyone in this post believes that soul and spirit are the same I will not speak more of it, the book I reference from is somewhat not up to date with the debate. So I will dust off the original queery and if you all dont mind try it again:
This may soung like a strange question, I found it odd at first myself, but here you go.

When did Christ die?

Peace and Love Through Jesus.

[Lefein]

I'd say, you're correct with your original idea that he died upon putting off immortality, and taking on the body of mortal dust.

And now to describe poetically... ^^

Through Mary's womb, Christ took on an "Adamite" body and so he took on conditions that go with it and dying he died.  Not through his own sin, but through the sins of others who killed him. 

He took on their sins, and so took on their curse - taking on Death itself, and overwhelming it, three days later rising again.

He also by their sin, was murdered, and so died.