Eternal "Hell" is Gone, But God's Fire Burns Bright

[jabcat]

Looking back through some old posts, I came across one of mine that struck home.  I admit, sometimes my love and zeal waxes and wanes, but as always, the Good Shepherd keeps drawing me back and loving me still.  However, regarding "the fire placed inside of me", of which I allude in the following old post;  anyone else have this experience?  Can you speak to this, testify perhaps?  Or has the fear of an eternal hell leaving you caused you to live like the devil because "it doesn't matter anyway if everybody's gonna be saved"?   :Yeahright:   If you've truly tasted of His forgiveness, even though we may wander, fall down, need to be picked up and cleaned off from time to time;  do you think you could ever just decide, "OK, I'm done with this.  I'm not going to be God's child anymore"?  I say, our God is greater than that!  Neither depth, nor height..things to come, powers, principalities, etc., can separate us from the love of God.  Hallelujah!

The old post -  "... I agree with the fire...I reassured my ex-pastor friend that I hadn't backslid or turned my back on God, that in fact He had placed a fire in me that causes me to actually seek Him and know Him more intimately...I think that's a paradox for ET believers, you know, "if the threat's not there to keep us in line....."  But the "threat" (consequence) is there, just not of relentless, eternal torture...no, God won't be mocked, and we will answer to Him, and why would I want to displease SomeOne Who loves me so much more than I realized, anyway?  Why would I want to do things and walk in ways that hinders my relationship with Him, or at least my ability to perceive that relationship?  What I'm now learning about that "threat" though is that God's punishments are loving and corrective, I may not like it and it may be painful to my flesh at the time, but that He won't cut off forever and the end of the Lord is mercy...that He's a good Father Who knows exactly what to do with me.  God's love and grace are more than sufficient...even giving me the very faith to believe and trust...In Him I live, move, and have my being.  God's blessing, James."

[micah7:9]

Amen

[Lefein]

With Hell having gone the way of Purgatory, atleast in my own heart...I've noticed that I have that much more reason to be like Christ than before, though I am still growing in that capacity; it is because now I have this unspoken sort of thought:

"I guess everyone I don't like will be in Heaven forever with me too...Might as well get used to forgiving people, and trying to live with them here..."

:laughing7:

Of course there are other things that Ultimate Reconciliation has helped, perhaps I'll give an Annual Testimony Report of Growth.

Might call it the "Pilgrim's Almanac"  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

Good post jabcat.

You know in some ways ET makes life a misery, because truthfully we all want to sin to a degree and ET makes it a form of mental torture, i.e if I sin, I could be punished with Everlasting pain. Eventually one does end up in sin and then end up hating themself, producing a selfloathing christians with low self esteem. This could be why a large number of christians lead unsuccessful lives, for they live in constant fear of slipping up, so they end up going to ther religions that do not have such stigma attached to sin and that give advice as to how to overcome it, rather than just the threat of a possible Eternal pain hell in future if they miss the mark.  Also I tend to notice that there's a lot of emphasis on the big sins, such as adultery, homosexuality, murder, stealing etc, but not much focus on things such as gossip, pride, slander, boastfullness, dirty dealings, etc the kind of things that happen regularly in the church, so I cannot see why threatning the general populace who do sin, to choose between Jesus or hell how can this make the world a better place, this could also be a reason why there are growing numbers of people who hate christians and want to make it ilegal to preach on the street and take away free speech and eventually turn democracy into communism etc :2c:

[CHB]

Hi jabcat,

You know I was talking to a minister about this very thing. I told him "I believed everyone would be saved" and he said "if everyone thought like I did that there would be chaos everywhere". He said "everyone would do whatever they could get away with". I told him "I didn't, and didn't even want to". I said "Since I have come to believe in the salvation of all I have no desire to do something that I know Father wouldn't approve of". I told him "of course no one is perfect but thinking one will burn forever if they don't do certain things hasn't kept the ET believers perfect either". In fact is seems they are more prone to doing something wrong simply because they have rules to follow. You know how a child is? If they are told not to do something it just kills them not being able to do what you tell them not to do. I think the same applies to those who believe in ET.

CHB

[jabcat]

Thanks everyone.  I just now revisited this thread.

I have an older sister who grew up thinking EVERYTHING except absolute fleshly perfection was a sin, punishable by eternal torment.  As a 60+ year old adult, she  she apparently still believes she "can't be good enough to be a Christian" - so she gives up.  She lives in defeat, guilt, and feeling estranged from God.

I've talked with her before about grace, the absence of eternal torment etc.  But some teachings are just so treacherous, they burn into a person's mind and spirit, and render them (feeling) helpless.

She has had times in her life of calling out to God, asking Jesus to save her, etc., but then thinking it has to do with her own ability to perform, quickly gives up.  Of course I know that God loves her, that Jesus is her Savior (she can never become His "un-child"), but have not been able to "convince her" that her standing is based on  His accomplishments, not hers.   :upset:

God help my sister.

[CHB]

Oh jabcat!! and there are many like that out there in the world. My heart goes out to them. They are in bondage for sure. Your sister is in my prayers.

CHB

[Nil Recurring]

And how many have been driven away from Christianity because of the doctrine of eternal torment? How many see God as only a vindictive bully and want nothing to do with Him because of that doctrine? I've run into many, MANY people online who are completely turned off by the gospel because of ET.

[marie glen]

This thread, and Jabcat's original post and all the posts  :iagree: are absolutely true!!

Also -

And how many have been driven away from Christianity because of the doctrine of eternal torment? How many see God as only a vindictive bully and want nothing to do with Him because of that doctrine? I've run into many, MANY people online who are completely turned off by the gospel because of ET.

I know this is very true too! ..and people who are very angry at a God they don't believe exists, and also believe He is mean because life is as it is..

[Dandelion]

Great post, jabcat.

I can speak as one who has known great fear for very, very long periods of time. It might make you do all the things you should, but for all the wrong reasons. In the end, fear is a very bad motivator, with lots of hidden pitfalls.

I wouldn't do anything different as a UR believer, than I was doing before.

The realization that God will never give up on me, or anyone else, does encourage me to live 1 Corinthians 13:18 even more:  Love never fails.

Our first and foremost reason for what we do for God and our neighbor, has to be LOVE.

1 Corinthians 13  New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

:2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good post Jab.... :thumbsup:  You know, I wonder if He doesn't reveal UR until He has done a work in the person's heart to the point that He knows they will never live like the devil just because the threat of hell is removed. I think we all start out fearing Him in a bad way like a child afraid of Dad's spankings, but as we mature we realized they were/are for our own good, and more love unfolds for Him because of it. Finally the love is so strong you realize, "Where would I go? You have the words of eternal life." My  :2c: Blessings....

[HungerForTruth]

:cloud9: Good post Jab.... :thumbsup:  You know, I wonder if He doesn't reveal UR until He has done a work in the person's heart to the point that He knows they will never live like the devil just because the threat of hell is removed. I think we all start out fearing Him in a bad way like a child afraid of Dad's spankings, but as we mature we realized they were/are for our own good, and more love unfolds for Him because of it. Finally the love is so strong you realize, "Where would I go? You have the words of eternal life." My  :2c: Blessings....

Very interesting thought.   :Chinscratch: :thumbsup:

[Seth]

There are times when I have lived like devil knowing hell doesn't exist same as when I thought it did, and it makes me say  :Oops:

What's pulled me back into shape is a Holy Spirit conviction, a good swatting of the heart. It just reminds me of the lack of power I have in the flesh and how much I depend on the Comforter and his chastening Grace.