Will God ever test our faith in a manner he tested Abraham or Job?

[B_T]

I hope this is the right forum to post it... But my question is: Will God ever test our faith in such a way? Will he ever require from us to kill our kids, or will he take our kids from us just to test whether we will stay strong in faith?

[SeekerSA]

B_T

The story of Abraham and Isaac was a prophetic one.  When the Lord told Abraham to offer Isaac his only son after God had promised him this and the nations through his seed, Abraham knew God would provide an alternative.

Like Jesus carrying the Cross on His back, Isaac carried the wood on his back.  I am told it was the same hill Jesus was crucified but I may be wrong.  The story goes on and before Abraham strikes, God stops him and behind them is a ram, which they offered in Isaac's stead.

We need to see, although this seemed bizzarr, God had a plan just like HE had a plan sending his only Son to die for our sins.

Very short version.

Blessings

[claypot]

Hi bt

Our faith is always being tested it seems or at least called into service. It's always a serious matter as it was with Abraham and Job.

Claypot

[Kratos]

I agree that the story of Abraham and Isaac was prophetic. God does not have to test us to see what we will do.

Jas 1:12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

We are tested in life by circumstances and by the enemy, but God tempts or tests no man.

John

[SeekerSA]

John

I agree with what you said but as I still believe in a will of sorts, when we will not to do the will of the Father, He allows it although He does not orchestrate it.

Through the experience, when we repent, He is waiting there where we left Him, His hand of Love and forgiveness still outstretched to us.  This is the experiential nature of our walk with God.

Many say we should always seek God's guidance in all things and it is true but if we do this in a way say God I want to do this, Whaddya think? We may not hear His response.  Done in humility with pre-acceptance of the outcome will be, we can be saved from so much hurt.

Example
You see a new car and really desire to own it.  Ask God and He says, No. You buy it anyway and two years down the line you lose your job and are not able to make the payments.  God knew upfront this would happen. 

This is a lesson to learn to submit our will to the Father's will.  Will you make the same mistake again? Maybe, sometimes we need to resit the same exam many times before we learn this truth.

Blessings

[Hennessey]

Will God ever test our faith in a manner he tested Abraham or Job?

I believe God tests our faith and then by the indwelling Christ we pass those tests. "I can do nothing of myself" is the purpose of all His testings.

I will never forget the night I laid my children on the altar. God gave me a vision where He showed me the measure of Good this world would bring to my two and then He showed me the end of their physical, worldly existence. They reside with Christ today, where I know all things are purposed for their Good.

I pray for my girl and boy every day with a love that just breaks my heart and brings me ever closer to the feelings my Christ must have felt on the cross. I never knew that kind of love for them before I painfully laid them on them on the altar. God is so Good!

Jack

 

[martincisneros]

I used to have a pat answer to this question with James chapter 1 that God isn't tempted by evil and neither does He tempt anyone.  And perhaps that's still true and I'm just drowning in the emotions of the last 8 months that I've personally had.

Had a very powerful deliverance situation back in the summer of 2005, where I know that all of those spirits got cast out of someone that I care about really deeply.  And then this last December (i.e. December 2006) it seemed like the whole situation blew sky high on me.  And it only dawned on me this last week that my last 8 months have been an attempted "7 sons of Sceva" incident (Acts 19:13-16 or somewhere near those verses) where now I'm the one fighting tooth and nail with my faith to not be the one that's cast out naked and bleeding.  I've never heard anything about a delayed "7 sons of Sceva" incident, other than stuff being preached from where Jesus commented on 7 times worse trying to take back the house that they got cast out of.

If the Lord needed me on the angry side, as when He went in and overturned the money changers' tables, the Holy Spirit bringing that particular Scripture to mind in connection to the situation that I'm dealing with while I was kinda mentally in neutral and half a sleep on a city bus headed downtown DEFINITELY WORKED!

At the same time, it's been a LONG 8 months to where I've still been a little whiney on the inside, even if not verbally, about "why am I having to go through this? BOTH much better AND much lesser men than me have been able to shake the dust from their feet and say 'ah-well' while they packed their bags to head to the next town!  After all, I'm not to love anyone more than Christ and His calling in my life, if I'm going to be accounted worthy of Him, right?"

[AbbasChild]

I don't think that our Heavenly Dad tempts anyone Himself. The scriptures to support that have already been mentioned. But it seems that He can lead us in ways where we will be tempted by others. Didn't Jesus say that temptations must come, but woe to the one who does the tempting? Wasn't Jesus also led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderniss to be tempted by the devil? And aren't we supposed to pray that our Heavenly Father won't lead us into temptation? Other scriptures speak about us not being tempted beyond what we can bear and because Christ within is our strength I am reminded of the hand of the Potter that works from within and from the outside to form a vessel for His Glory. So if I pull this all together I would still say: No our Heavenly Dad doesn't tempt or test anyone, but He walks with us into situations where we are tempted and tested by all kinds of adversities, including the adversary. But because He is with us in this situations there is nothing to fear and He already knows the outcome. These 'tests' are more for us, so we might be strong and firmly founded on the Rock of Faithfullness.

[Kratos]

Floyd,

A good summary of what I believe also. God is not the tempter or tester as He already knows and the scriptures are clear that He tempts no man. However, we will be tempted and tested by circumstances and the adversary and God will provide a way of escape so that we will not be overcome.

Many misquote the scripture to just say that God will not allow us to be tested beyond our ability to overcome. This is not true as men and women of God are tempted and tested and fail these tests everyday. Good men and women of God are overcome by sickness and poverty and sin everyday.

It does not say that God will not allow is to be tempted beyond our ability to overcome, but that when we are tested beyond our ability to overcome that He will provide a way of escape. We must take the way of escape that is provided or we will be overcome instead of being an Overcomer. We must humble ourselves and seek God's way of escape when the heat is turned up in this present world.

John

[Hennessey]

"We have grown spiritually beyond the doctrines of the old order.  Now, we no longer see the devil in our lives. The Lord has taken the devil out of our minds, out of our doctrines, and out of our lives. Now we know the truth! Now we know "It is GOD which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." "

                                                       Paul Mueller



Then Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led about by the Spirit in the Desert for forty days,

                                                       Luke 4:1


I believe it is our sovereign God that leads us by the Spirit to be tested. When that doctor slapped my little new born fanny the testing began and I cried ........ and today I am still crying   

how long O Lord, how long ..............    :mlaugh:



I guess it depends on whether you see a big God or a big devil ........... and who's the "overcomer."

I believe God tests our faith and then by the indwelling Christ we pass those tests. "I can do nothing of myself" is the purpose of all His testings.

It was good enough for Jesus. I guess it's good enough for me.

I leave you with a short message, part of which I quoted above as an opening for this post.  I believe this message points to a more mature understanding of our testing and the responsibility for such. I  have probably had more cause to share this writing than any other over the last year.


There is another rod of God that concerns us: it is the Lord's rod of discipline and correction. Job referred to this rod when he said, 'Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes. Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them (Job 21:7-9). As we look about us in the world today, we can see that the wicked live just as Job said they did, without the rod of God in their lives. The wicked enjoy wealth and the power which that wealth brings. They live the so-called 'good life,' for their lives are free of the Lord's rod of discipline and correction. But it is not so with the chosen saints of the Lord! Our lives are wondrously and strangely predestined of our Father to attain to the fullness of sonship in Christ through the discipline of our trials.

Throughout our journey in this life, with every step we take, we will see the rod of God in our lives. At times, our lives will be interrupted by a strange set of circumstances that are unique and unexplainable. But we must know that our loving Father predestined us to the adoption of sons, and His rod is that set of disciplinary circumstances in our lives designed to lead us to the fullness of the life of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Others may live in abundant prosperity and health, enjoying the things of this world, but we are being disciplined by the rod of the Lord, and are separated unto Him for His holy purposes. If we are truly called and chosen of our Father to become manifest sons of God at this time, we must experience His strange and unique rods, including the rod of selection and separation as well as His rod of discipline.

The chastisement of Father's rod is unique to true sons. All the sons of God are now going through some form of chastisement, or will soon experience it. The prophet declared, 'The Lord's voice crieth unto the city (the heavenly Jerusalem): hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it' (Mic. 6:9). When the Lord applies His rod of correction to our lives, it is an indication that He wants to teach us something wonderful and important. The Lord's rod brings a message to us, therefore we should hear the message of the rod. In every trial, He is doing something wonderful in our lives! When a strange form of discipline unto correction comes our way, we will then reply to our Father, 'Abba, Father, what lesson do you want me to learn through this experience?' Father has a rich, new message for us in every application of the rod, a message we could not receive in any other circumstance, so we are admonished to 'hear ye the rod.'

Furthermore, we should not only hear the message of the rod, but we also should understand 'who hath appointed it.' The rod of correction, that must come into the life of every true son, is that experience that will perfect us and bring us into the fullness of the life of Christ. By the wisdom of the mind of Christ we will recognize the chastisements in our lives as the rod of God, and not Satan's works. The devil would rather keep us living in constant ecstasy, and our minds thus dulled to the voice of the Lord. Satan does not want us to be perfected and would not send these tests and trials into our lives! But God is applying His rod to our lives to keep us alert and aware of His voice and leadings, and to perfect us and conform us to His image and likeness. We have grown spiritually beyond the doctrines of the old order. Now, we no longer see the devil in our lives. The Lord has taken the devil out of our minds, out of our doctrines, and out of our lives. Now we know the truth! Now we know "It is GOD which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." (Paul Mueller)

God calls us and gives us His gift of salvation through Christ Jesus and a week later we want to earn that gift and our salvation. With our earnings we slowly "edge God out" (EGO). For about two weeks I was overjoyed with the gift of Christ and then for thirty years I tried to earn my keep in the Kingdom before I gave up.

Today I say, "Overcome me my Lord and reveal within me your rightful eternal throne where I can rejoin You as part of the Elohim. I acknowledge my absolute dependence on Your Grace."

Jack

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[AbbasChild]

John and Jack, as much as it may sound as a contradiction to you, but I agree with both of you. Now maybe I missed the point of what one of you said, but I can see both sides and that they are somehow reconciled in Him.
I hope this is not getting into a debate again, but I can see that just as Good and evil serve their purpose, so does our perceived 'free will' and our Heavenly Father's Soverignty work together for the ultimate Good.
I am aware that this is a hot topic and I honestly don't believe that anyone of us got all the answers to the questions concering this issues.
It seems to me that when we hold on to strong to one of the extremes, some of us feel as if we either deny that God is God, or that God is Good.
And I think both things are clearly proven in scripture. For now I can only share what I see and explain what my limited human mind can perceive until the Holy Spirit gives me more Light on this topics, but I am thankfull for any input I have received thus far and that is challenging my thinking.

[Redlettervoice]

.


Have you ever noticed that "it was on the THIRD DAY" when Abraham "looked UP and saw the PLACE?"

What PLACE? Very interesting.

That was about the time he figured out God had "allowed" him to be tested to "sacrifice" his son?

Wonder what authority had God allowed to "tempt" him so? A temporal authority that loves to "do" something

for God?  Ole well, that's when God "did" something for Abraham!  There was a "ram" caught/ in that

bush! Watch it there, ram, ole buddy, the Lord's liable to get you up there on that mountain ..........I guess yall think I been eating "razor soup" ....I think I musta! too! ha

I think it says Jesus willing became God's sacrifice on the cross...........but that "ram" got CAUGHT!

Just interesting to me.

[joian]

Man Red and Jack,
You bless me..........this from Chip Brogden turned on a light this past week and surprised me in how he penetrated my heart with a different picture as I am still coming to grips with the all in all he is becoming in my life.


God resists the proud" (James 4:6ff).

The automatic assumption is that anything which resists us or hinders us is of satanic origin. That is, if we encounter difficulty in our spiritual walk, our first reaction is to rebuke the devil, or ask the saints to pray for us to have a clear way. Certainly the devil will attempt to hinder us from anything we undertake that glorifies God and threatens the darkness. Yet we learn from James 4:6 that there is Someone else who can resist us. There is Another Who carefully watches what we do, and frequently hinders us from making progress.

It comes as a shock and surprise to some Christians to see one day that God, not the devil, is resisting them. The Lord Himself resists us, closes doors, causes things to be unfruitful, and spoils all our plans. How so? Because "God resists the proud." This resistance from God is insurmountable. It is a fearful thing to fight the Lord. We spend most of our lives wrestling with God instead of cooperating with God, and in the end we have nothing to show for it. So much time and effort is wasted because we proceed in our own, stubborn way. We attribute all difficulties to the devil, or to other people, or our circumstances, or our environment, and fail to recognize that the Lord Himself is resisting us.

[Cardinal]

 :2c: Yes, He does test us. I don't often slip back into the mentality of seeing an enemy anymore.  Let's just say; I have seen the enemy, and I'm pretty sure it's ME, :doh: LOL.

:Book: I gradually stopped seeing an enemy as I saw that God was in total control even though it doesn't look like it. For awhile anything that was perceived as bad, I immediately asked Him what I was supposed to learn from this situation, right off the bat, so it was not a long, drawn out lesson, with lots of suffering  :hammerhead: (I really hate those), and I could make the necessary judgments on my flesh with His help. I found that 90% of the time, He would tell me, as long as I stayed open to Him completely, no matter what the "cost". This walk is not a piece of cake......but if it is and I've missed out........make mine chocolate, please.. :coffee2:

[julzabro2]

I agree with cardinal and might I add...


I am surprised that you all think that God doesn't test us? You limit God this way, don't you?

Who made the Tree of Knowlegde and said don't eat of it?

Who MADE the snake?

Who ALLOWED Satn to plunder Job?

Who hardened Pharoah's heart?

Who put a mark on Cain for protection????

The idea is that we are to be made naked/destitute/wounded....in other words, OF FLESH....so that God can heal us. Did He not know beforehand that Eve would eat the apple.....this was ALL part of His plan.

He tempts AND He heals....all so that WE can attain the righteousness necessary for eternal life with Him.