Personal bias, but are the scriptures really not so friendly to Fundamentalists?

[Universalist Catholic]

Personally, it seems like the bible is giving the most severe warnings to the Religious Fundamentalists.  I am not referring to specifically  Evangelicals, but any type of Fundamentalist.  So essentially, Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, Muslim, Jewish and Hindu Fundamentalism.  What we know about Fundamentalism is that it is the most rigid form of spirituality emphasizing a lack of tolerance for any other views. 
1. The only time Jesus ever scolded anyone was to the religious Pharisees, yet he was much more merciful to the common people.  The Pharisees prided themselves in their self proclaimed righteousness.  How many ultra-religious fanatics do we see all puffed up over being "Born again", "Saved", "Keepers of the Law", "Partook in all the sacraments", "had so many devotions".  They also keep the law, but miss over the spirit.  We got those who can keep the Koran, take the bible literally, accept all customs of the Church, or follow in established orthodoxy, but completely miss over the spirit, which just creates a high ego of self righteousness.  Not to mention, the letter can be twisted any which way to justify any horrible beliefs.  Thats how the teaching of Hell crept in.  Not to mention, Fundamentalists take many scriptures attributed to hell out of context, and not in the spirit, or they would have to look at themselves.  Nitpicky over the traditions.  Remember healing on the sabboath?  Jesus asked if they would rescue a sheep on the sabboath.  It seemed like he was asking them if they were stupid.  There are countless apologetic sites all with the same intent, to nitpick at every teaching that doesnt suite their interpretation of the bible, not for major stuff like Hell, but over certain levitical laws, and other misinterpretations.  No dialogue, just fighting over small differences. 
2. All the warnings Paul and Jesus gave.  The broad and the narrow path, the "No one righteous" Those saying "Lord, did we not cast out demons in your name", All verses Fundamentalists use, but if they read in the context, it was exposing all the foolishness of their pharisaic attitudes, not the common people not being religious enough.  The prodigal son, the brother is jealous because the other brother came home and was given a feast.  I am constantly asked if Universal Salvation is real, then that means that the Christian and the Non believer would be equal or the murderer and the family man would be equal.  They like the brother could only see punishment, and not mercy.  Dont forget, the last is first, and the first is last, plus prostitutes and tax collectors would get in before the pharisees.  Our modern day Fundamentalists make quite a hobby out of sentencing people with sexual sins to hell.   

3.  We recieved all kinds of warnings about the church, such as the Whore of Babylon, Damnable heresies, severe consequences to the false prophets, and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the act of hard hearts that one would not recognize Jesus as the son of God but a man working under the power of Satan. 

So, hopefully im not thinking too biasely, but I cannot deny that if anyone should be worried about these warnings, its the Fundamentalists.

[JohnnyCatholic12]

I agree completely.  People get so prideful from their keeping of the law that they damn anyone who doesn't believe the same way they do, do what they do, and sometimes even look the way they do.  Catholicism is a really big sinner in this area, that's why I left recently made the decision to leave Catholicism.  Organized religion likes to tie heavy burdens on our back.  Christ came to earth to tear down the religious institution of his day.  He called the religious leaders of His day "snakes, and hypocrites."  His message was decidedly anti-religious.  Jesus was no lover of religion, tradition, and customs.  The great irony of this all is that so many of his supposed followers have created a religion in His Name! 

Jesus said to follow Him because light was His burden and easy was His yoke.  Look at Christianity today and tell me if light is the burden and easy is the yoke?  Catholicism teaches that even if you love and trust God and place your faith in Jesus Christ, if you skip one Mass, and then die in auto accident you are going to hell because you have died in a state of mortal sin.  Tell me where in Scripture that is found?

The thing is people create these giant, cold institutions with all of these rules and doctrines so they can feel superior to others.  So people can brag about all of the rules they follow while they look down their noses at the "sinners." 

Jesus did not come to earth to create another religion.  He came to create a Revolution.  To tear away all of the layers of religious junk between people and God.  We no longer have to live under the tyranny of religious leaders.  We now can have a relationship with the Lord.  We can go directly to God.  It's about love.  Jesus gave us two commandments, Love God and love your neighbor.  That's all.  It's so simple.

[Beloved Servant]

wow.
That's beautiful.

[micah7:9]

wow.
That's beautiful.

:thumbsup: Yes indeed.

[Universalist Catholic]

What I try to understand is its not really a good idea to judge someone based on their religion.  Most people who belong to organized religion, are very nominal.  Most likely are good people, but would most likely not follow every teaching of that religion, and live according to their own reasoning.  There are also others who are stuck in the trap of fear.  They are miserable and stressed by all these burdens, but fear leaving because they could jeopardize their soul to eternal pain.  But I definitely know there are those pharisees who relish in the idea that they are more loved by God than the rest. 

[santikos]

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

The churches that teach that Jesus is the christ will decieve many. It is in the scriptures and i first thought that it meant that many will come and claim that they (the person giving the message) are the christ. then i learned that many will come teaching that jesus is the christ (like most churches do) and decieve many. it is teh churches that will decieve many.

the churches use what i call the unholy trinity...fear, shame,guilt
shame of their past condition
guilt of current condition
fear of your future condition

[Lefein]

Is Jesus not The Messiah?

[santikos]

Of course he is the messiah. many churches say that he is the messiah (which is true) but these same churches have been deceiving his sheep for years.

what i am trying to communicate is that the churches that teach that jesus is the christ are the ones that jesus warned about.
Yes of course he is the christ.

[Lefein]

Okay, just an error of communication on my part, lol.  I must admit...I felt a bit 'en garde!' on that post. :p

[Ross]

Hi;
Many will come and say I am the Christ, but I NEVER knew them. - i think you are all on the right track here.

[jabcat]

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

The churches that teach that Jesus is the christ will decieve many. It is in the scriptures and i first thought that it meant that many will come and claim that they (the person giving the message) are the christ. then i learned that many will come teaching that jesus is the christ (like most churches do) and decieve many. it is teh churches that will decieve many.

the churches use what i call the unholy trinity...fear, shame,guilt
shame of their past condition
guilt of current condition
fear of your future condition

That's an interesting thought I'll need to consider some more.  I tend to struggle between "they are my brothers and sisters, since they believe on Yesu as the Savior" and "frustration over some things they teach, along with a sense of alienation from them".  Passed by another "church" sign over the weekend that said, "Eternity - smoking, or non-smoking?".  I wanted to go take it down, decided that wasn't the answer.   :sigh:

Most likely are good people, but would most likely not follow every teaching of that religion, and live according to their own reasoning.  There are also others who are stuck in the trap of fear.  They are miserable and stressed by all these burdens, but fear leaving because they could jeopardize their soul to eternal pain.  

Agreed - and believers on Jesus as their Savior :thumbsup:
- If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
.  

[CHB]

Passed by another "church" sign over the weekend that said, "Eternity - smoking, or non-smoking?".  I wanted to go take it down, decided that wasn't the answer.

:laughing7: I saw one that said: "If you think it's hot in here, wait till you get down there."

CHB

[jabcat]

 :pitiful:  I told my wife, "that ought'a bring'em in".

[WhiteWings]

Passed by another "church" sign over the weekend that said, "Eternity - smoking, or non-smoking?".  I wanted to go take it down, decided that wasn't the answer.

:laughing7: I saw one that said: "If you think it's hot in here, wait till you get down there."

CHB

Come in and tithe your fire insurance. :mblush:

[Lefein]

Has anyone thought of putting up their own billboard with some choice scriptures that show mostly plainly the Gospel of Universal Reconciliation?

If these churches are putting up cheap (catchy?) unbiblical slogans, surely the Spirit will speak to even greater numbers of people through the merciful verses found in The Word.

And if the churches have anything to say about it - they can take it up with the Author Himself!  Especially since they're using his book to preach in their temples to begin with.

If anyone decides to vandalise it - they've just vandalised the words of Jesus.

And what would they possibly say from the pulpit in answer?

"Sorry friends, but God doesn't love everyone, and his love only lasts 75 years or so, then its hate, hate, hate, burnin all to Hell and worse!  Hallelujah for the fall of our sinful neighbor!  Aren't you glad Hell exists sister Nesbit? Amen *phew*"

[jabcat]

OK, interesting thought.  I just received my new bumper stickers today -

YESU (Jesus), Savior of the world.  John 4:42.  Do you truly know what that                 means?  www.tentmaker.org  CALL ON HIM

I'll consider your idea.   :thumbsup:

[Lefein]

 :thumbsup:

If the Lord leads you; may he provide all the resources you need, and bless the endeavour!

In his glorious name, Amen.


Evangelise the nations - tell them of his mercy and love! 

-The Great Commision.

[JohnnyCatholic12]

What I try to understand is its not really a good idea to judge someone based on their religion.  Most people who belong to organized religion, are very nominal.  Most likely are good people, but would most likely not follow every teaching of that religion, and live according to their own reasoning.  There are also others who are stuck in the trap of fear.  They are miserable and stressed by all these burdens, but fear leaving because they could jeopardize their soul to eternal pain.  But I definitely know there are those pharisees who relish in the idea that they are more loved by God than the rest. 

I know all too well that feeling.  That feeling kept me ensnared in the claws of organized religion for years and years.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: God has not given us a spirit of FEAR, yet fear is about all the churches beat you with to keep you "in line". Sad, really. Blessings....

[Ross]

Hi;
2 Tim 1;7 " For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and correction."
1 John 4 ;17,18 " Herein has love been made perfect with us in order that we may have boldness in the day of judging, in that just as He is we are also in this world. Fear exists not in love, but perfect love cast fear outside: because fear has correction: he that fears has not been made perfect in love."

* The greatest fear I had was of the sense of failure to do enough to be saved from eternal damnation. the preachers endorsed all that.
Now I know on His salvation that is IN CHRIST. The perfect gift of love from a loving God who has wiped out all my sins through the blood of Christ.
Say that to a fundamentalist and they will put up selfish protection barriers that they are used to using.

[Universalist Catholic]

Has anyone thought of putting up their own billboard with some choice scriptures that show mostly plainly the Gospel of Universal Reconciliation?

If these churches are putting up cheap (catchy?) unbiblical slogans, surely the Spirit will speak to even greater numbers of people through the merciful verses found in The Word.

And if the churches have anything to say about it - they can take it up with the Author Himself!  Especially since they're using his book to preach in their temples to begin with.

If anyone decides to vandalise it - they've just vandalised the words of Jesus.

And what would they possibly say from the pulpit in answer?

"Sorry friends, but God doesn't love everyone, and his love only lasts 75 years or so, then its hate, hate, hate, burnin all to Hell and worse!  Hallelujah for the fall of our sinful neighbor!  Aren't you glad Hell exists sister Nesbit? Amen *phew*"

Ive heard of those before
"Think this is hot, hell is hotter"

[Universalist Catholic]

I could not help but also notice that the Biblically "Educated" are the ones who do not seem to understand the scriptures.  Most non-Fundamentalists understand simple concepts of Love, righteousness, justice, and kindness.  It seems like the Fundamentalists are always out searching for loopholes in the scriptures to justify their legalism.

Simple one, "Judge not lest ye be judged".  Pretty clear.  If you pass judgment, you will get judgment in return.  However the Fundamentalists will somehow find a way to twist this scripture as meaning "If you had something to be judged for".  And then say that the bible instructs righteous judgment.  We know that righteous judgment is the ability to judge what is right and wrong.  Saying theivery is wrong is righteous judgment.  However condemning the theif is wrong. 

I have also seen many take those warnings against false teachers, wolves in sheeps clothes, itching of ears, liars, and being persecuted and hated.  However they teach that these forces are secular humanists, liberals, satanists, communists, athieists, who are these evil groups out to capture the flock, and attack those who are the disciples of Christ, for preaching the cold hard truth. 

Yet if you look carefully, you can see that there is more error in orthodox Christianity than any of those other groups.  Wolves in sheeps clothing.  Most of the groups I mentioned are pretty straightforward about what they think.  I dont see any atheists sugarcoating their unbelief.  I dont see humanists sugarcoating their opposition to religion.  These groups all seem pretty straightforward about what they think.  However the Fundamentalists seem to be the biggest sugarcoaters.  Pretending that their hatespeech is out of love.  Pretending their gospel of Turn or Burn is Good News.  All I see is manipulating those with smooth words and convincing speeches.  Itching of Ears.  I cant help but see more unholy desires with ET than UR.  Suiting a love for power, strutting around with a spirit of self righteousness, feeling like God favored you above all others, or promoting a spirit of revenge on your enemies.  Not such holy desires from the Hellfire dogma.  UR desires salvation for all, even to our enemies.  People say that we are just believing in UR to justify a sinful life.  Not what I see.  Most people who I see who want to sin with this comfort of no punishment join those churches telling you all you have to do is believe in the right doctrines, and live forever.  Being hated? It is true, people who believe in the UR gospel are harshly attacked by the Church systems.  Its all based on ignorant assumptions, Hellfire threats, and just nasty and undeserved persecutions all for freeing people from the shackles of the Pharisees.  Makes sense that worldly systems would hate UR believers.  We have something greater to look to than Government, Religion, commercialism or such other stuff.  So why would they like us when they lose their power over the people?  It is true that the Fundamentalists in this day and age are also not well liked.  Yet they believe the prophecy was fulfilled.  Well technically its more self fulfilled, considering their behavior.  It is true that people laugh at them, attack their open air preachers screaming judgment warnings with signs targeting different people.  The Media does not like them too much.  All I can say is you reap what you sew.  If you spent so much time spewing hate, you are going to get hate in return.  If you spew judgment, you get judgment in return.  If you persecute others, you recieve persecution in return.  No warnings about just persecution.

[PaoloNuevo]

I could not help but also notice that the Biblically "Educated" are the ones who do not seem to understand the scriptures.  Most non-Fundamentalists understand simple concepts of Love, righteousness, justice, and kindness.  It seems like the Fundamentalists are always out searching for loopholes in the scriptures to justify their legalism.

I'll try not to pass judgment on fundamentalists...

But when I was a hell-fire fundie before.. I've always held back from giving or aiding people in temporal needs... I thought,

"Oh, so these groups of people are those I can't reach and therefore I can't share the gospel to, so because they're already damned.. I might as well not give."

And I know we're taught to discern the Gospel already preached (Gal. 1: 8) but as a hellfire man I always found each and every single activity as ominous as long as it wasn't "Christ centered."  Plus I didn't know what Christ centeredness meant back then either.  :dontknow: :dontknow:

I am speaking of my former self before I knew UR, I am not representing anyone, but just myself and my erroneous ways... (before UR)...

[Nathan]

enjoyable thread.

I to, was raised as a fundementalist.  And I wasn't shy about expressing that.  I was quick to pass judgment.  I was just as quick to give you my opinion whether you wanted to hear it or not.  I was narrow-minded.  I had no interest in your explanation once it was clear we had differences of opinion.  If we did get into a debate (which I truly loved doing) while you were expressing yourself, all I was thinking about was a counter to your point of view.  I had no problems distancing myself from you if you couldn't agree with me.  And I saw myself as a great instument of God advancing the gospel to the world . . .well . . the church-going world anyway. 

I saw myself as a warrior on the front lines of the battle field.  I felt an urgency to coral the new believers to train them and equip them to defend our positions of our highly protected denominational belief system.

Yup . . .if the Bible didn't say it, then I don't beleive it.  Everything was based on proof.  Faith need not apply.  Faith was something you had once you established a foundation from biblical knowledge first.  Cuz it says faith comes from hearing.  Whcih means, you have faith because you listen to me . . . and hearing comes from the Word of God.  You listen to me because my interpretation of the Bbile is the most accurate.

Thank God I didn't kill anyone!!!

[HisDaughter]

Well ya'll meet a down south "fundie", a student of the Word for more than 30 yrs, been a member of many different types of organized religion.  After reading and studing the bible my perception is that every orgainized group who call them self Christian don't have all the answers. 

I have mostly learned that it is not our place as a Christain to decided who is dammed and who is not, for we are not the final judge.  I have also learned from my many experiences at "fundie" churches is that you plant the seed and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. 

Some of the things I have read on this thread is not in line with what I have experienced.  Could some of ya'll be going on preconceived notions, or are they true experiences?  Even some of the most "Hell Fire and damnation" evangelicals I have known have never said this person or that person will go to hell but, that "if they don't mend their sinful ways" they will suffer and then behind that  say "Lord help them".

Maybe you have had bad experiences.   I am sorry for that because people who do things mentioned in this thread do every Christian an injustice, not only Christians but they do Jesus an injustice even more.