Noah's Ark

[Nathan]

We've been doing a verse-by-verse study on the book of Genesis from a pattern perspective and have been blown away with some of the things that have surfaced.  I had a special moment of intimacy with this subject that I thought I'd just post here on the board and see where it goes from here.

Noah's ark . . .most see the general implication there that God is the ark in the same dimensions as the tabernacle in that there are three levels, the window just below the top represents our eyes, the windows of our soul. 

That the pitch that it was coated with inside and out literally, the word "pitch" means atonement.  Noah means rest and rest came to rest on mount Ararat which literally means the curse is reversed.  And it wasn't just that God cleansed the earth, but it was a prophetic picture of what Jesus would do in going to the cross.  Sin is not the curse, it's only a symptom.  The curse began when Adam ate from his Eve.  Spirit is not to be fed by the soul.  As a result, they introduced all of their offspring to a realm of the soulishness, which is what we live in now.

BUT the greatest thing that happened to us through this study just happened this week and it was pertaining to the raven and two doves.  Noah sent out a raven first . . .it flew off and never returned.  This piece was always puzzling to me.  I know that  a raven is an unclean bird . . .but  . . .what the heck??? 

It never made any sense to me and there was never any explanation as to why Noah used a raven and then switched to a dove . . . and the thing that slowed it all down was the fact that once the ark came to rest on Mount Ararat . . .they waited 40 days before sending out the raven.

40 days is used A LOT in Scripture and most all of the numerology charts will tell you it's stands for "testing".  but I don't fully agree because when it comes to patterns, they HAVE to fit in every situation they're referred to.  Jesus was in the wilderness 40 days . . .testing right?  Okay, but then what about the 40 days after his resurrection?  What testing went on there?  It doesn't fit.  So I laid that one down and waited for the sound to come.  For me, 40 doesn't mean testing, it means "birthing".  40 weeks is the time of gestation for a woman to birth a child.  Romans 1:20 . . .God uses the natural to reveal spiritual truths.

Seeds of the spirit are passed through our spirit into our womb . .our minds . . .and there the seed takes root and grows, it causes us to walk funny . . .spiritually speaking . . .it stretches us, it pushes our internal reasoning and processing into places we're not at all comfortable with.  But then things begin to dilate and the birthing comes.  Understanding breaches from our depths and it transforms us from husbands into Fathers, from wives into mothers.  We're the same person, but life will never be looked at the same way ever again. 

Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, when he came out, he came out in power . . .for what?  His ministry, the wilderness experience birthed his ministry.  Then after the resurrection . ..what would that have birthed? . . .If you do the math, Jesus died right at the Passover . .. it is 50 days from Passover to Pentecost.  Jesus was around for 40 days after his resurrection which was on the day of first fruits.  Passover was when he died, then the feast of unleavened bread was the 2nd day, the third day was feast of first fruits, the next feast would be Pentecost, it simply means 50.  Okay, so it was three days, Jesus resurrects, then on the earth for 40, which then leaves another 7 days to Pentecost.  So what was it that Jesus birthed after his resurrection?  I would say it was on the day of Pentecost the original church was born.

So anyway, 40 shows up with Noah . . .40 days after Noah landed he sent out the raven ... it didn't come back.  He sent out a dove and here's where things start really falling together . . .

Genesis 8
6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
First note the dove was a "her" much like the soul of man and the Holy Ghost, she found no rest . . .put a pin in that one because it's what nailed things down for me.  As she comes back, it's very explicit about how she came in, Noah reached out and took her, and pulled her into the ark.  Doesn't that sound like an act of intimacy?  He brought her into the ark because there was no rest outside of it.  What was Noah's name again?  Rest.  Rest is hidden in God. 

10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him anymore.

This is so cool . . .another set of sevens, the second set of three sets . . .everything comes in dimensions of three.  Through the Father, Son and Spirit.  For me, 3 is the number of resurrection.  As well as divine wholeness.  But after seven days (completion) he sends a dove out and in the evening, when the Son is coming to "rest"  on the horizon, she returns with a message on her mouth.  And olive branch, I believe it represents "life"  her message was "life" and Noah then knew that the curse was over, the waters had receded.  Then when the third set of sevens was complete, the dove was freed eternally.

Okay, great story, has a lot of stuff there to digest . . .but . . .why on earth did he send out the raven???  It wouldn't leave me alone.  And I wouldn't leave it alone.  And then, like lightning, it struck me . .. it's patterned after the tabernacle of Moses.  The raven represents uncleanliness. . . .as is the outer court in Revelation where it's not to be measured due to it's the habitation of the Gentiles.

2nd dimension, the dove goes out and has to return because she can find no rest . . .okay, time to take that pin back out.  the second dimension in the tabernacle represents ministry/labor.  All of the activities required by the priests were for the sole purpose to "maintain" the fire, bread, wine, incense . ..not to mention all the animal sacrificing going on . . .it was all connected to ministry labor . . that's why the dove couldn't find any rest . . .2nd dimension is all about labor, no rest. 

But then the third attempt with the second dove came and she came back with the message of life ... the third dimension.  I don't know about you guys . . .but that just blows my mind.

[Lefein]

The raven is a carrion bird, a bird associated with Death.  The Law?  Who flies off and brings back nothing.

The Dove...The Spirit of Grace, who brings the olive branch of peace, and abundance.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  Too tired to process it Nate, but I can still "hear" it.....will get back to this on the weekend..... :thumbsup:

[Molly]

Raven represents darkness= death=carnal=no mercy=Law


And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door; And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming, And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor; And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor Shall be lifted -- nevermore!

--Edgar Allen Poe


No one ever mentions the raven in that ark story.

[Molly]

Genesis 8:12
He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.

13 By the first day of the first month of Noah's six hundred and first year, the water had dried up from the earth. Noah then removed the covering from the ark and saw that the surface of the ground was dry.


John 1
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


Mark 1
10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

[Molly]

14And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

15And God spake unto Noah, saying,

16Go forth of the ark...

--Gen 8



1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

--Rev 21

[Molly]

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


16Go forth of the ark...

--Gen 8


Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

[micah7:9]

Nathan, I can see a good part of what you wrote. Still, and I only found this out just recently, I have not found where it fits, there are meaning things said about the raven,[on the darkside, but are they all of a truth] but this I did not know and I believe it is very important to the story of Noe. Ravens, science has found that they are intellegent, like dolphins and dolphins are pretty smart.
I will study your work more. Peace and Love.

[Nathan]

Other than being listed as an unclean bird, the only other time a raven is mentioned is when it's sent by God to Elijah to bring him fresh meat.

I pulled up just a little on the characterstic of a raven . . .it wasn't as easy as I thought as I kept getting Edward Allen Poe's poem "the raven" instead.


The raven(Corvus corax)is first cousin to the common crow. Ravens and crows are the most intelligent of birds, and their cleverness earned them a reputation for having prophetic powers. Ancient Romans, for example, tried to predict the future by studying the flight of crows, and there are those who still believe that they can fortell good or bad luck by counting the critters. Ravens, however, also have an unsavory reputation because of their habit of eating corpses, especially on battlefields. Being big, black, harsh-voiced scavenging birds, they became associated with death and disaster.

[micah7:9]

Thank you, this is good. My study of the raven of Noe and Elijah has been put away and covered with dust, I must search for it. This new information of the ravens intelligence is a diamond in a chunk of coal.

[thinktank]

The unfaithfull raven flies off, but the faithfull dove returns.

[Nathan]

Ravens also search out death.  They are attracted to warring as they scavenge off of others pain and loss.

[Molly]

7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
--Gen 8



7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
--Job 1



17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

--Rev 19



3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

--Rev 20



1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

--Rev 21

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Still haven't had a chance to read it and soak it in, but just wanted to say Molly, that I never noticed the correlation between the to and fro of both Satan and the raven......interesting......I always knew Satan was nothing but a dirty bird..... :laughing7:

[Molly]

The Flood, the Raven, and the Dove



http://www.oudesporen.nl/Download/HB141.pdf



Song of Solomon 2:14
O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.


9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
--Gen 8


Isaiah 52:7
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!



11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

--Gen 8

[Molly]

..dove... in the secret places of the stairs,
[song of solomon 2:14]

"secret"

H5643
סתרה    סתר
sêthere  sithrâh
say'-there, sith-raw'
From H5641; a cover (in a good or a bad, a literal or a figurative sense): - backbiting, covering, covert, X disguise [-th], hiding place, privily, protection, secret (-ly, place).

H5641
סתר
sâthar
saw-thar'
A primitive root; to hide (by covering), literally or figuratively: - be absent, keep close, conceal, hide (self), (keep) secret, X surely.




"stairs"

H4095
מדרגה
madrêgâh
mad-ray-gaw'
From an unused root meaning to step; properly a step; by implication a steep or inaccessible place: - stair, steep place.


The dove is in the secret places of the stairs.


12And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

--Gen 28



"ladder"

H5551
סלּם
sûllâm
sool-lawm'
From H5549; a stair case: - ladder.


51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
--John 1

[Quaesitor]

Just an on-the-side commentary:

I am forever gratefull that by finding this community here, God has shown me, through you all, that there is no randomness in the Word of God.
Everything has been planned carefully by God.

Why was I never taught that in church is beyond me, there is so much riches in all these pages.

[WhiteWings]

I am forever gratefull that by finding this community here, God has shown me, through you all, that there is no randomness in the Word of God.
.....
Why was I never taught that in church is beyond me, there is so much riches in all these pages.

Because many teachings fall flat on their face if the randomness is taken out....
Randomness usually takes out the "believe like a child".

[Lefein]

When the word of God proves that it is consistent, it becomes exceedingly difficult to twist to one's own inconsistent agendas.

[WhiteWings]

Absolutely no negativity towards you Lefein but from what you wrote I understand until recently saw randomness.
I think you are a serious in your studies yet you honestly saw randomness.
I think people that believe in twisted doctrines are also serious and really don't see randomness.

I think veiled is not just understanding things the wrong way; veiled means being certain that those wrong things are right.

[Quaesitor]

Yet, in most churches, if you bring about all the spiritual symbolism of the raven, the dove, the 40 days, Noah's name or even pitch's name signification, you'll be labeled a mystic who is over-spiritualizing everything.
So for them it IS randomness since it has no real meaning except the litteral one and that Noah could have been called John or Bill and in place of a dove, a pterodactyl could have been sent.

[Cardinal]

Just an on-the-side commentary:

I am forever gratefull that by finding this community here, God has shown me, through you all, that there is no randomness in the Word of God.
Everything has been planned carefully by God.

Why was I never taught that in church is beyond me, there is so much riches in all these pages.

:cloud9:  :goodpost: The translators, probably through ignorance, provided much "randomness", but God's precepts, once understood and recognized, could not be hidden, even intentially (except by Him), for they shine out like diamonds in a coal pile. Blessings....

[Molly]

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fullfil the book.


All I ever had--
These songs of freedom--
Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom-
'Cause all I ever had:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yXRGdZdonM

[Nathan]

Amen Molly, the trumpeters are in position with their sound of freedom to declare the Year of Jubilee is upon us.  Sing loud, sing long.  May God arise and his enemies be scattered.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN  :banana: :happyclap: :clapping: