I'm finally convinced that UR isn't true, God is NOT all loving

[Lefein]

God adorned his glory with wheels, chariots, and other materialesque tokens: thrones are material things, and so are sapphire expanses.

New Jerusalem is a spiritual city, adorned with transparent gold, jewels, and mansions.

Our glorified bodies are adorned with robes, and crowns.

Technology on Earth is produced out of need.  Technology in Heaven will be produced (I believe) out of artistry.

[thinktank]

God adorned his glory with wheels, chariots, and other materialesque tokens: thrones are material things, and so are sapphire expanses.

New Jerusalem is a spiritual city, adorned with transparent gold, jewels, and mansions.

Our glorified bodies are adorned with robes, and crowns.

Technology on Earth is produced out of need.  Technology in Heaven will be produced (I believe) out of artistry.

Nice, bravo. The streets are,  lined with gold, in a world where everyone is rich, so the gold is merely decoration the real king is the lord Jesus Christ.

[Nathan]

Uh . . . actually there are no streets of gold in the New Jerusalem.  It's only "one" street.  It's the same picture as the one river through the garden that pours out into Eden. 

It's the same as the one river, crystal in clarity in Revelation.  They are all revealing the same truth. 

God isn't adorning us with trinkets as much as he is reveailing to us that "he" is running through us, he is our path, he is the one who's created a way ahead of us. We live, we dwell, we travel on the road he's already prepared ahead of us.

The gold represents the invaluable nature of his love, direction, and illumination in us.  We are the New Jerusalem and his street runs through us.  He perfects us with his presence.  The quality of the gold in the street of this New Jerusalem can't be compared by anything carnal.  Gold is the closest resemblence to his purity because the process we go through in this realm emmulates the process a person goes through as he perfects us.

Gold in it's purest form is transparent.  Once he refines us in this carnality, we become transparent to one another.  We are no longer clouded in understanding of who he is or who we are in him.  We are his most precious.  He bought us at a great price and as far as he is concerned we are worth every penny, metaphorically speaking of course.

[Quaesitor]

Uh . . . actually there are no streets of gold in the New Jerusalem.  It's only "one" street.  It's the same picture as the one river through the garden that pours out into Eden. 

It's the same as the one river, crystal in clarity in Revelation.  They are all revealing the same truth. 

God isn't adorning us with trinkets as much as he is reveailing to us that "he" is running through us, he is our path, he is the one who's created a way ahead of us. We live, we dwell, we travel on the road he's already prepared ahead of us.

The gold represents the invaluable nature of his love, direction, and illumination in us.  We are the New Jerusalem and his street runs through us.  He perfects us with his presence.  The quality of the gold in the street of this New Jerusalem can't be compared by anything carnal.  Gold is the closest resemblence to his purity because the process we go through in this realm emmulates the process a person goes through as he perfects us.

Gold in it's purest form is transparent.  Once he refines us in this carnality, we become transparent to one another.  We are no longer clouded in understanding of who he is or who we are in him.  We are his most precious.  He bought us at a great price and as far as he is concerned we are worth every penny, metaphorically speaking of course.

:goodpost:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:   :thumbsup:

[Lefein]

I'm going to be honest, I'm getting really sick and tired of every reward in Heaven being said to be nothing more than some half-esoteric, or ethereal metaphor that pretty much makes the glorified new existence into nothing more than a bastardised Judaic form of Nirvana...

I'm expecting bread - hot, steamy, warm, delicious bread...not a metaphorical rock that exists "inside my soul".

[Quaesitor]

I understand you Lefein, but were are told to look for the celestial things not earthly things and when the Spirit of God fills you, you have no interest for what is earthly because these things do not satisfy.
See Jesus and the samaritan woman.

Like somebody said not long ago, we understand because we come from where you are but we won't go back.

I too, thought exactly like you about these things, I too, hoped for a perfect, earthly life. But it isn't to be said we won't have one, it is that if your focus is on these things, you won't see the Kingdom of God.
:bigGrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Eye hath not seen and ear hath not heard.....that means we can't imagine with our carnal minds anything any better than what He has prepared for us, and is why I don't try to. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Lefein]

If the Kingdom of God is nothing more than a glorified metaphor then it is thoroughly useless...And I have been gloriously cheated.

[Nathan]

[edit - personal opinion stated about deception] That's all we're saying here.

[Lefein]

...Then what is the Kingdom of God?

When I say "Kingdom of God" I mean, "where am I going to be ten trillion years down the road" kind of thing.

Is it a metaphor?  Or is it real?  Will I be able to touch it?  Or is it all in my figurative head?

[jabcat]

I'm going to be honest, I'm getting really sick and tired of every reward in Heaven being said to be nothing more than some half-esoteric, or ethereal metaphor that pretty much makes the glorified new existence into nothing more than a bastardised Judaic form of Nirvana...

I'm expecting bread - hot, steamy, warm, delicious bread...not a metaphorical rock that exists "inside my soul".

I understand.  I believe we can go so far from one extreme to the other, that we can forget some things that are still in play.  Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. 

[Quaesitor]

We've been revealed what IS for this age and the next.
After that we have no clue except the certitude that God can only purpose that which is perfect!

If all we have is hot bread, then we've all been gloriously cheated.  :bigGrin:

What is not revealed by the Spirit can't be reached by the carnal mind Lefein. How can any man guess the full plan of God?

There is already enough spiritual wisdom to look at to keep you busy for every hours of everyday of your life, why try to search for things that have not been revealed?

[Nathan]

I can only share what I personally see.  You have to have your own personal "revelation".  This "revelation" topic really is an important one because "that's" what Jesus proclaimed he's going to build his church on and the gates of hell (Ghenna) can't withstand it.  God's word isn't just presented to us . . it's "in" us.  But we can't see or hear it until we do what John did in Revelation . . .he had to turn around to "see" the voice he was hearing.  Since when does one "see" what one hears?  "That's" what revelation is.  God is unveiling truth and we're discerning the difference between noise (religious minds) and sound (truth and light from the Father).

What I see is that when there is a completion to this natural experience we call earth, the God of restoration will return all things back to the way they were before man was driven out of the spirit realm in the first place.  

Everything your eyes see are evidence of the fact the natural realm is still the predominant realm in our existance.  But originally, the spirit realm was the predominant one.  But because Adam chose to live according to knowledge, the curse was inflicted by him when he brought disorder to God's spiritual alignment in his creation.

Jesus came in the flesh and redeemed man back to God.  He reversed the curse.  It was already finished in the spirit realm, Jesus fulfilled it in the natural, but as the natural realm goes, we are confined to time.  When the time comes to it's end . . .not time itself, but the time when God's will becomes complete in this realm, this natural realm will return to it's original alignment which is to say natural will be as spiritual is now.  And spiritual will be as natural is now.

This is not a doctrine by any means, it's just what I see from where I am in my relationship with the Father on this given day.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. The Kingdom of God is not merely a location but a NATURE, the nature of the King, in the Holy Ghost, which is IN YOU.

If you died today, you would find you have been in the Kingdom all along (your spirit man), and the Kingdom was in you. Blessings....

[Lefein]

If all we have is hot bread, then we've all been gloriously cheated.

Atleast I'd have bread, and not just some "good moral, or proverb" at the end of the Aesop's fable that is this hideously deformed existence of life.

That is the point I'm trying to make.

There is already enough spiritual wisdom to look at to keep you busy for every hours of everyday of your life, why try to search for things that have not been revealed?

I don't already?

I'm not some carnal, meat-bag, nominal Christian who expects to play golf in Heaven, eating twinkies all day while angels rub my feet.  But I'm not going to flaunt around as some ray of anonymous light, or presence in an (appalling) heavenly hive-mind either where every reward I've been promised is literally nothing more than eternal moral or proverb.

[Nathan]

All I can say to your responses is that all I desire is for God to illuminate his truth in me and if that means I must do a drastic make-over/overhaul of what I see before me now, so beit.  I don't want to put him in a box that could hinder me from experiencing new heights in him this limited mind could never comprehend on any level.

[jabcat]

:cloud9: The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. The Kingdom of God is not merely a location but a NATURE, the nature of the King, in the Holy Ghost, which is IN YOU.

If you died today, you would find you have been in the Kingdom all along (your spirit man), and the Kingdom was in you. Blessings....

Again Lefein, agreed.  So many times we make it all one thing and not the other.  Balance anyone?   :laughing7:

Card, I agree with your post, and one of your last ones in another thread about "both".  Amen.  The kindgom is within/among, we are indwelt, etc...as you say "if we died today" we have already been born into the kingdom.  But as Lefein says as well, I believe we would be somewhere doing somethings.  And though I believe there certainly are extremes towards the orthodox end of interpretation, there are also extremes toward a so-called spiritual end.  Again, often there's a balance somewhere, and sadly it can be missed.   :2c:  

[jabcat]

All I can say to your responses is that all I desire is for God to illuminate his truth in me and if that means I must do a drastic make-over/overhaul of what I see before me now, so beit.  I don't want to put him in a box that could hinder me from experiencing new heights in him this limited mind could never comprehend on any level.

I like this.  Seeking His will, revelation, whatever that may be.

[Quaesitor]

I'm not some carnal, meat-bag, nominal Christian who expects to play golf in Heaven, eating twinkies all day while angels rub my feet.  But I'm not going to flaunt around as some ray of anonymous light, or presence in an (appalling) heavenly hive-mind either where every reward I've been promised is literally nothing more than eternal moral or proverb.

That may not be flattering to those twinkies-eaters but that one made me laugh.

But I don't think you're understanding all it implies(I'm not saying I do either... :mblush:)

It is obvious there's something else since we'll all die in the flesh and be resurrected to reign. This means there'll be much more that eternal moral or proverb. But we have nothing to base our understanding of what it is and we should not use our carnal imagination to "guess" what it'll look like.

Paul said that if we are hoping for this life we are the saddest of men but our hope is greater than that, it is based on the glorious resurrection of Jesus.

Read Nathan's post once more, I think he explains all of it much better than I. :bigGrin:

[Cardinal]

All I can say to your responses is that all I desire is for God to illuminate his truth in me and if that means I must do a drastic make-over/overhaul of what I see before me now, so beit.  I don't want to put him in a box that could hinder me from experiencing new heights in him this limited mind could never comprehend on any level.

:cloud9: Amen, Nate...ditto for me. Any box I ever tried to put Him in, He just set it and me on fire anyway.....
:bottlebump: :flamebreath: :pointlaugh: Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

I believe we would be somewhere doing somethings.

If when we see Him we shall be like Him than we will be here, there and everywhere doing what pleases the Father.
For He is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient.

Yes, Card, the alabaster box has been broken.

We need to bathe in the Oil.

[Lefein]

...I hope to God I'm not omnipresent...

[jabcat]

I believe we would be somewhere doing somethings.

If when we see Him we shall be like Him than we will be here, there and everywhere doing what pleases the Father.
For He is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient.

Yes, Card, the alabaster box has been broken.

We need to bathe in the Oil.

Yeah, I don't think we're looking at a trillion years playing the ukelele floating on a cloud.  Although, I could be wrong.  (It could be a harp.   :angelharp:)

:winkgrin:

[thinktank]

When some christians see the word "gold" they automatically think carnal, carnal, carnal, ironically it is the carnal mind with it's fears that jumps to these conclusions. Gold is a substance within the earth, that was created by our heavenly father, it is not of the devil.
Solomon was God's servant and he had more gold than probably anyone in the entire history of man.

It is also my belief that the heavenly realm is similar to the earth, for the scriptures declare that the natural mirrors the heavenly. In my opinion having a mansion or house of gold in heaven does not concern me, personally I'd prefer a villa :) or a log cabin in the countryside but it does not take away what the scriptures have written, that Jesus said there were many mansions in his fathers' house I go to prepare a place for you, if this was not the case he would not have told us.