UR In The Eucharist

[coldwar]

I would like to start a discussion which will no doubt be toward the more Orthodox among us- Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Eastern, etc. but I hope everyone can appreciate this. I could use a lot of terms instead of Eucharist, but seeing as the word (Gk.) simply means "thanksgiving", it can be seen as part of almost every Christian tradition as Lord's Supper, Lord's Table, Communion, Holy Communion, etc. Among Anglicans, it is typical for an entire church service to be labeled "Eucharist", and follows the same form every week. I've sort of been working up to this, but have finally discovered how this ancient sacrament, originated by Jesus himself, certainly must by its very nature point to Universal Reconciliation. Consider these well known scriptures:

1 Cor. 11:26- "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come."

1 John 2:2- "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Christ is called the "propitiation for our sins."  (Greek, hilasmos). Christ is "the propitiation," because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he removes our guilt, covering it by the vicarious punishment which he endured in his death on the cross. So this is what He told us to do in the Eucharist, to show His death until He returns- the death by which He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

UR is found in this Sacrament. This morning I partook of it with a renewed awakening- that the partaking of the spiritual emblems of bread and wine are not just blind obedience to an ancient command, nor are they to be considered for the propitiation of my sins only, but it's FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD! The whole service then becomes a GIVING OF THANKS TO CHRIST FOR THIS VERY THING, and also a continued prayer of agreement with God that none will perish, but His ultimate will be accomplished!

I also noticed like never before how often in the Anglican Liturgy which is from the Book of Common Prayer the phrase "for the sins of the whole world" is recited, with never a threat of hell made against anyone.

Roman Catholic Theologian Hans Urs von Balthasa wrote  "Christians, who by the sacraments are given a share in the mission of Christ, are called to hope and pray for the salvation of all men." 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's a very good point, coldwar..... :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

"hope" and "pray" are not facts.

Who is "ours"? People in the church building? Who is the "whole world"? Other Catholics?

κόσμος
kosmos
Thayer Definition:
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1Pe 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom 11:12 etc)
8b) of believers only, Joh 1:29; Joh 3:16; Joh 3:17; Joh 6:33; Joh 12:47 1Co 4:9; 2Co 5:19

Something in that defenition for everyone. What does RCC pick?

[coldwar]

I'm not a Roman Catholic, but if I could discern from this excerpt from Pope John Paul II - "In proclaiming the Risen Lord, Christians present the One who inaugurates a new era of history and announce to the world the good news of a complete and universal salvation which contains in itself the pledge of a new world in which pain and injustice will give way to joy and beauty." - I would have to say the RCC probably has meaning #5 - the entire family of man, in mind.

[WhiteWings]

Coldwar,
Read this thread:

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=8050.msg94672#msg94672

Especially the first 2 messages.
You won't hear me say no Catholic is pro UR. But from what Willie quoted certainly not all are pro UR.
There are many sites attaching UR. But they never attack RCC on that point. I think that's a sign...

[coldwar]

"hope" and "pray" are not facts.

I know what you mean, when UR is considered Biblical fact, it's not left up to our "hope" and "prayer". However, I can appreciate that this Theologian meant that through the sacraments, we actually play a role, through hope and prayer, in the ultimate salvation of all people. This aspect is all new and fresh to me BTW, so I'm excited about it, but I look at it as a challenge and a reminder to get my eyes off myself and really be in agreement with our LORD, who is "not willing that any should perish"; as should we, not merely as a point of doctrine, but as a real hearts desire, that we don't even want our enemies to fry in hell- not even for a moment, let alone forever. I know a lot of you truly have this in your hearts already, and it probably came to you in many different ways. For me, the discovery that it's an essential part of Eucharist has been the way my heart has been elevated above my self, to embrace all humanity with a desire that they not perish.

Also WW, I've noted the new post you just entered while I was writing this one- thanks; certainly some mixed messages here from the RCC! As for the "anti-Catholic" nature of your original link mentioned by someone, I investigated that, and found it to be (I think) a website collection of "Traditionalist Catholic" views- those who are against the outcomes of Vatican II, and have seen all Popes ever since as evil; those Catholics who want the Liturgy restored to Latin.

By the way, I'm Anglican.

Dave

[WhiteWings]

"hope" and "pray" are not facts.

I know what you mean, when UR is considered Biblical fact, it's not left up to our "hope" and "prayer".

True. The fact that they just hope means they don't believe in UR. I've seen Calvinists writing the same thing. But still they believe only 5% will be saved.
But still sounds a lot better than the "rot in hell" message of many.