Fate of Ananias and Sapphira

[AJ]

Fate of Ananias and Sapphira
Acts 5
1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

The Apostles Heal Many
12And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
13And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
15Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.


Have you ever considered - that MAYBE Ananias and Sapphira were killed NOT according to the perfect will of God...but rather according to the will of carnal men?

Let's look at some of the details.

Fact,... together Ananias and Sapphira lied when they kept back some money.
But, is that really a sin so terrible that God should have to kill them for it?
I think not.

Have you ever promised God that you would do something....in a certain way...but you didn't do it?
Sure...we all have.
We ALL have lied, twisted, distorted things to our advantage.
It's that nasty nature of our carnal man, that we all yield to from time to time.

When was the last time that you heard that God just up and killed someone for lying to Him?
Probably never.
Consider this:  
If it's really true - that God gets all P.O. by someone lying...and then kills people for it, ...then there probably wouldn't be anyone left on planet earth today.

Christian are lying just as much today (and maybe more)- as they did in the early days of the disciples.
Our nature today is no different than the early disciples.
Hmmmm, what is the difference then?

-------------------------------
I think the DIFFERENCE is that believers today DO NOT have the allotted power of God that was given to the early disciples.
BUT with great power, also must come great responsibility.

So many Christians today pray for the power of God. "Oh, God send the power" – Oh, God send the Power".
But,...how many today - could really handle it properly?
The truth is...probably very few.


So what happened to Ananias and Sapphira?
I think that their lie was revealed to Peter by the Spirit of the Lord...but Peter got in the flesh and told God to kill them.
WHOA...the Bible doesn't say that.
You are right...it may not be on the written page...but, it is what the Spirit has revealed to some believers.

But why would God kill Ananias and Sapphira back then and it appears He ain't doing it today?
Please re-read verses 12-16 again from above.
Has anyone seen or experienced on a regular basis, the POWER OF GOD like that today?
I haven't either.
I believe that because of the unique gifts and power that was given to Peter by God...God honored Peters request to kill Ananias and Sapphira.

Another thing.
Why didn't God kill Cain when he murdered his brother?
Further - because of the work of Christ on the Cross - God is a peace will all men today.
Luke 2:14 - 'Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men".


So...is it reasonable to suspect Peter, a famed Apostle of such a carnal deed...of murder?
I believe the answer is yes.

Luke 9:54 – "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?"
I find it very interesting that the disciples actually asked Jesus...if he wanted them to destroy certain folks.


One more thing to think about.
Elisha...one of the greatest prophets of the Old Testament.
2 Kings 2:9 –
9And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2 Kings 2:23-24
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Here we have Elisha, he just received a double portion of Elijah's spirit and few verses later, he gets P.O. when little children mocked him....so what does he do - he curses them and has 42 little children killed.
God honored Elisha's carnal fleshly request and killed 42 kids.

Yet, Elisha was probably a little brat himself when he was their age.
Where's the repentance allowed for those who sin?
Neither Peter or Elisha tolerate any.

I am convinced that Peter will in the coming age apologies to Ananias and Sapphira for having them killed.
I am also convinced that Elisha will in the coming age apologies to those 42 kids for having them killed.

.

[Lefein]

Death is also remedial.

Were Sapphira, and Ananias any different from Sodom, and Gomorrah?  Were they greater sinners than the Galileans whose blood was mixed with their sacrifices?  What of the tower that fell upon them, were they greater sinners than these?  What about those who died in the flood?  Not all of them surely where so vicious as the rest...Yet they died too.

The wages of sin is death.  But all the consequences God gives us, and allows to happen...from our sin, are remedial in his ends.

Sodom I believe was destroyed because its wickedness if allowed to continue, would have made them thoroughly rotten.  So too, perhaps Sapphira and Ananias would have become too rotten, if allowed to live in their bodies.  Likewise, they would have spread their rot throughout the early church, their deceitful influence.  How quickly does the influence of Gossip spread in today's churches?

It takes alot of deceit, and rebellion in the heart to lie to the Holy Spirit.

It takes alot of rebellion, and pride to mock a prophet of God.  42 children who have been so irreverently raised, to mock a prophet of God, and by extension mock God himself even as little children...42 children is a great many men, who will have a great many children, equally, and worse in their sinfulness against God.  If they had lived, Israel may have had a great deal of sinners, in just a short few generations, which would have inevitably brought down a fierce national judgement from the throne of God.

Also: The power of God isn't given to the apostles like fire for a wizard.  God rules, and if the two died, it was God's will for it to happen.  If a prayer is not in God's will, he says No.  A curse in the name of the Lord, must be backed by the power of the Lord, and the power of the Lord is under God's counsel alone.

[jabcat]

So what happened to Ananias and Sapphira?
I think that their lie was revealed to Peter by the Spirit of the Lord...but Peter got in the flesh and told God to kill them.
WHOA...the Bible doesn't say that.
You are right...it may not be on the written page...but, it is what the Spirit has revealed to some believers.

Hi Brother AJ.  These are difficult passages, for sure.

What you say in the above quote may be true.  It's also true some have a very active imagination and believe they're hearing from God.   :2c:

Also: The power of God isn't given to the apostles like fire for a wizard.  God rules, and if the two died, it was God's will for it to happen.  If a prayer is not in God's will, he says No.  A curse in the name of the Lord, must be backed by the power of the Lord, and the power of the Lord is under God's counsel alone.

I agree.  God's in control.  I don't believe He acts on the whim of man.

[Quaesitor]

One more thing to think about.
Elisha...one of the greatest prophets of the Old Testament.
2 Kings 2:9 –
9And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2 Kings 2:23-24
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Here we have Elisha, he just received a double portion of Elijah's spirit and few verses later, he gets P.O. when little children mocked him....so what does he do - he curses them and has 42 little children killed.
God honored Elisha's carnal fleshly request and killed 42 kids.

Yet, Elisha was probably a little brat himself when he was their age.
Where's the repentance allowed for those who sin?
Neither Peter or Elisha tolerate any.

I am convinced that Peter will in the coming age apologies to Ananias and Sapphira for having them killed.
I am also convinced that Elisha will in the coming age apologies to those 42 kids for having them killed.

I don't remember where I read about that but it was explained that the word used and translated into little children is a bad translation and that these children were in fact young men in their 20s.
Dangerous and in band, these men where bent on persecuting Elisha and maybe killing him as well.

For the other part, I tottaly agree with WW, by endingb their lives, God was mercifull toward them.

[thinktank]

I found something interesting about this issue that could be truth. In acts 9, 10,12 we have a guy named Ananias who gives sight back to Paul. Could this Ananias be the same one that was struck down in church. Did peter raise him from the dead. What are the chances of two Ananias in the same book and we don't know the history of the Ananias that died.

[AJ]

O.K. – I've been told by some folks think that 'little children' in verse 23 above is a poor translation and that these kids were probably in their 20's....and that Elisha feared for his life.

Then, why didn't Elisha sit down on a rock, gather them around him and call down from heaven some breakfast for this "evil gang of combatant's" and then explaining to them the whole incident of being with Elijah, the chariot of fire and whirlwind taken him up....the happenings at the school of the prophets.

They probably would have loved to hear about it.
He could have encouraged them to look to God...instead of cursing them.
I know...some will say...well things were different back in the O.T.
Well dah....what happened to Ananias....during the Gospel age?

And by the way... didn't Peter lie (3) times in a row while in the presence of Jesus. Denying that he even knew him.
So what happened to Peter when he lied?....did he get squashed like a bug...ground to powder...and then burnt to a crisp.   NOPE.
He was forgiven,...given grace and mercy and then encouraged to walk in the Spirit, feed the lambs and given great power to heal the sick, so that all were healed and etc.

One persons said:
"The power of God isn't given to the apostles like fire for a wizard.  God rules, and if the two died, it was God's will for it to happen.  If a prayer is not in God's will, he says No.  A curse in the name of the Lord, must be backed by the power of the Lord, and the power of the Lord is under God's counsel alone."

For the most part I agree with the above statement.

...yet Peter did try to kill a priest with a sword...but ended up only cutting off his ear.
Peter exhibited a hard side to himself.
When he operates by the carnal flesh...things can get a bit nasty.
I wonder if he ever apologies to that priest....hummm, I kinda doubt it....but he will in the next age.

Some folks do not understand that man can request from God something that is not the will of God and they get it anyway.

Example:
God did not want Israel to have a king.  He alone wanted to be their king.
But they insisted that they wanted to be like all the other nations with a physical king, so God gave them Saul.  Obviously, the end outcome was quite terrible.

Puny man, operating by the arm of flesh, can move the hand of God, to have Him to do things against his perfect will....do to things that He full well knows will terminate with devastating results.

Thus, I still contest that operating with the arm of flesh (men of God) can curse (in the name of the Lord) certain other folks and God will honor their request against His perfect will. 

[thinktank]

Thus, I still contest that operating with the arm of flesh (men of God) can curse (in the name of the Lord) certain other folks and God will honor their request against His perfect will.

good, I think this also, that man has power in his tongue and the closer we are to God the more powerful we impact the spirit world, bringing in results much faster than usual. Even an unbeliver has power in their tongues, notice how poor people are allways complaining about their lack or how negative people allways complaining about everything, thus never happy, we reap what we sow.

[Shadow]

I don't remember where I read about that but it was explained that the word used and translated into little children is a bad translation and that these children were in fact young men in their 20s.
Dangerous and in band, these men where bent on persecuting Elisha and maybe killing him as well.

For the other part, I totally agree with WW, by ending their lives, God was merciful toward them.

How do you know that they would persecute Elisha, and in how is it merciful for God to end their lives the way he did

2 Kings 2:23-24
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

[Lefein]

You say man can force God against his perfect will.

Where is your proof that these actions where not in his perfect will?  Afterall, who among us is a seer who can see whether or not God was being a fool when he took Sapphira, and Ananias' life?  Lives which are his to give, and his to take at a whim, if he so chooses...their life is his breath after all, and God is sovereign, and righteous.

Peter did not lie, nor did he murder.  If it is murder, then God is an accomplice, and an accessory, and he ceases to be God, and you and I are doomed.

Likewise the same for Elisha.

[AJ]

Mark 14: 66 And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest: 67 And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.
68 But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew. 69 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.
70 And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto. 71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.
72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Lefein...please read the above verses.
You said that Peter did not lie, nor did he murder.

Maybe you don't think that when Peter was denying that he knew Jesus (3) times as lying...when he had been with him for 3.5 years...but I do. 
The scriptures are clear that Peter was a bold face liar.

Also
I stand corrected...it wasn't the high priest that Peter tried to kill - but the servant of the priest.

John 18:10
Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus

If the servant probably hadn't ducked, he would have been cut down the middle.
Peter was a dangerous person.
If any one would do that today with a sword...they would be charged with attempted murder.

Anyway believe what you want....I am not going to debate you anymore.

Peace to you Lefein.

[Lefein]

The problem is, that it seems that you are using his past to bolster a hypothesis that Peter killed two people using God as a weapon.  Elisha as well.

But as you said, the debate is over, and I've said what is mine to say.

[anti_nietzsche]

Well maybe there was more to what Ananias and Sapphira did. The scriptures say they had filled their heart with the devil by purposely lying. It was not an "accidental" lie. If people lie today they feel remorse and go talk with someone about it. So Ananias and Sapphira could have gone to an apostle or an elder and confessed that whole thing and find forgiveness. But as they did not do that there was no repentance, and without repentance there is no forgiveness, I think.

What happened to them after death is a whole other thing. Basically, this was a disciplining of the church. Even when we believe in UR, we are not somehoe exempt of chastisement if we pursue sin. Paul also excommunicated, but he expressely adds that this is so that the spirit of the excommunicated may be saved on the last day. So UR is still right ... we just have to take care not to turn God into a teddy bear. He is not above chastising people, even in our age of grace here. God knows our heart and if we entertain evil there and don't recognize it and don't repent, things can get awful for us. Sin IS awful. That's why things come together with the awful cross of Christ.

[thinktank]

If the servant probably hadn't ducked, he would have been cut down the middle.
Peter was a dangerous person.
If any one would do that today with a sword...they would be charged with attempted murder.


Is this rightoeusness? or are you being soft?
A lot of people today are too soft for their own good, "don't step on that bug etc"

Peter did what anyone who loves his friend would do, protect him from hardened evil soldiers.

The men coming to get Jesus were not the spice girls, but condeming and violent soldiers.

If any one would do that today with a sword...they would be charged with attempted murder.

That's one of the worst things about todays society, the criminals murder and get away with it but when people defend themselves, they lock em up and throw away the key.

I saw this movie on youtube where the bus driver simply grabbed this foul mouthed kid and the commentator said the driver went to jail, he was laughable the commentator should go to jail himself for being an idiot.

It says in the bible somewhere that kids and women shall rule over you.

[chuckt]

1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus