I Have Little Idea Right Now

[WhiteWings]

7 Why is it like the zodiac?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's not intended to be like the zodiac; it's the standards (flags) of the 4 tribes closest around the Tabernacle when it was in "stop" mode. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

Confusion ...G181  ἀκαταστασία  akatastasia  ak-at-as-tah-see'-ah
From G182; instability, that is, disorder

1Co 14:33  For God is not [a God of] disorder, but of peace, as He is in all the Churches of His people.

[thinktank]

Confusion ...G181  ἀκαταστασία  akatastasia  ak-at-as-tah-see'-ah
From G182; instability, that is, disorder

1Co 14:33  For God is not [a God of] disorder, but of peace, as He is in all the Churches of His people.

You are confusing me :msealed:

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

I'm in that place with the Book of Revelation, that I am so confused.  I just had read J. Preston Eby's take on it, how he sees it as occurring within the believer.  I have started reading it again, and honestly, I just am not seeing it that way.  He also says if you don't see it that way, then you're just not able to see it spiritually, or something like that.

Some say it's all future - get ready for the tribulation, Armegeddon, the rapture, most of the population of earth will be wiped out, things burned, bombed, generally destroyed.  Then the big battle where Jesus and the saints win, then most go to hell forever and a "few" (millions and millions?) go fly around in the clouds.

Some say the first few chapters are fulfilled, but the rest is future.

Some say parts here and there are fulfilled, some pieces not (take your pick).

Some say it's all literal - some say all spiritual - some say some literal, some spiritual (take your pick).

Some say it belongs earlier in the scriptures, some say at the end.

Some say we're seeing the "signs of the end", some say there will be "no end", it all just gets better and better from here.

Some say it's ALL fulfilled, not IN THE INDIVIDUAL, but in Jerusalem, 70 AD.

We have pre, mid, post-Mil, no mil.  A literal heaven, a literal beast, a literal burning hell, a literal 666, literal clouds, literal horns, literal trumpets - some say "phooey, it's all spiritual".  THEY CITE THE WORD "SIGNIFIED" AS PROVING IT'S ALL SPIRITUAL.  But although that can be ONE definition, it's not the ONLY.  It can also mean along the lines of something being told, passed along, given, explained, described, etc.

After reading J. Preston, I thought I might be ready to "tackle" Revelation again.  Now, maybe not so much.   :sigh:

I know we have umpteen different POVs even on here.  Maybe someone though will say SOMETHING that clicks and brings perspective.  MAYBE  :mshock: it's a matter of prayer for the Lord to reveal to me.  Imagine that  :winkgrin:.

Since you read J.P. Eby's story of HIS understanding, Use YOUR understanding to understand. The Spirit works in us all...

I love John Eby tho so very much. and pray often he lives very long on this earth.

[marie glen]

All of life is a metaphor...
but it's still literal! :grin:

(rev ch 6)
the Lamb opens the 1st Seal and a Rider on a white horse comes forth clothed in victory with a wreath (of victory) on His head.. Jesus "openly triumphed over demons and principalities.." (the old 'gods') - Opening the days of our Lord A.D.

Each horse and rider (the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse) gallop because they are *progressing elements* of this age (the years of our Lord A.D.). Each horse continues its gallop (progression and growth) throughout the book of rev/apoc. - this is true of each of the Seven Seals.
- (And the Seven Trumpets are in the 7th Seal.)

The Second Seal is opened and a red horse and rider come forth, war, man's constant unwanted companion.. and this rider is given a large (some translations say long) sword.

The Third Seal is opened and a black horse and rider come forth, he is holding the weights and balances off mercantilism and is war's companion destitution/poverty/imbalance

The Fourth Seal is opened and a pale horse and rider come forth, who is wild beasts (beasts in prophecy are governments, wild governments). He is pestilence (another companion of war) including chemical, and the grave follows after him. [The mass grave. Most translations use the word "hell" and 'hell' "follows after him", but we know a closer translation for that word/concept is "the grave", as in "sheol" was always simply the grave and dust thereof (from which the death & resurrection of Jesus, the new Adam, saves us(1Tim4:10).]

The Fifth Seal is opened and we see the (progressing throughout the age) element of martydom.. the martys blood, like the blood of Abel cries out unto God...

The Sixth Seal is Opened and something completely new occurs and a whole new wind.. so dire in progression/potential that there is a great spiritual earthquake (life changes). The sky becomes black (that day over Hiroshima and Nagasaki; bomb shelters/caves are built) but then there is "a pause" and two mighty angels hold back the (new) wind from blowing upon the earth, for a time...

A very interesting thing about the Seals is they are fully described, from their first opening to their full progression at the 'end'. Therefore some things which occur very late in the revelation/apocalypse narrative are described here so early in the narrative. This works like a lock, hiding much of the vision for "many days"(Daniel).

Well, this is gramma, and I am going to be babysitting this evening so I have to run. But if no one minds I would like to come back and write a little more about the Book of Revelation and 'latter' day Bible prophecy (i wrote a short book about it which i like to summarize any chance i get)

[Molly]

I would like to come back and write a little more about the Book of Revelation and 'latter' day Bible prophecy (i wrote a short book about it which i like to summarize any chance i get)

Yes!  Please do!  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

Great id like to hear it, Revelation is one of my favorite book in the bible, if I look at it scientifically and not emotionally, otherwise it would probably be the worst  :laughing7: I think that's why a lot here don't really study it much.

[jabcat]

... look at it scientifically and not emotionally...I think that's why a lot here don't really study it much.

What are you basing this on?

[micah7:9]

... look at it scientifically and not emotionally...I think that's why a lot here don't really study it much.

What are you basing this on?

Ill second that question.

[thinktank]

well I'm fairly new here but I have found that many of the things written about revelation are not believed by some here. Such as the beast, 2 witnesses, plagues of God etc. I think it's because they don't like the idea of it, i.e find it to emotional, too entertain as being true.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Or maybe because it was something revealed to John IN THE TEMPLE, IN THE SPIRIT, and as such understanding of it is ONLY going to come from the revelation of the Spirit. You don't look at the natural to understand spiritual truths, you have spiritual truths revealed to you that THEN reveal the purpose of the natural.

The first time I read it, I recognized it was not to be understood with my carnal mind, told the Lord I wasn't going to spend one minute trying to reason it all out, and that when HE wanted to show me a spiritual principle that lead me back into that book, I would follow it, and not until. Line upon line, precept upon precept.

Revelation of the Spirit is progressive and AS NEEDED to walk out, as we are held accountable for what we know, therefore knowing anything BY THE SPIRIT is not going to be revealed until it's purpose is needed. My  :2c: Blessings....

[micah7:9]

This last book of information that has been given to the slaves/servants is an inworking within the very Christ growing in those that are hearing what the Spirit is saying to the called out. I (and I speak only for me) remain miffed as to why the saints continue to make this manifestation, the revealing of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last a confliction and abrasion to understanding that it is Christ in you the hope of Glory. That the Lord Himself, revealed, showed us the very workings that will and must take place in the Overcomer. The Book and the revealings of the last Book...are a work to be done in you, the Overcomer.

Of course it is only my understanding      Peace and Love Through Jesus

[eaglesway]

Wheels within wheels....Veils within veils


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
(Rom 1:18-23)

[Nathan]

This last book of information that has been given to the slaves/servants is an inworking within the very Christ growing in those that are hearing what the Spirit is saying to the called out. I (and I speak only for me) remain miffed as to why the saints continue to make this manifestation, the revealing of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last a confliction and abrasion to understanding that it is Christ in you the hope of Glory. That the Lord Himself, revealed, showed us the very workings that will and must take place in the Overcomer. The Book and the revealings of the last Book...are a work to be done in you, the Overcomer.

Of course it is only my understanding      Peace and Love Through Jesus

Your first line here sort of strikes a chord with me . . .Revelation 1, the very opening verse that leads into these great mysteries to the minds of men, it first describes "who" this book is to be written "to".  There's a great difference between a servant/slave and a bondservant.  Thsi book was not written to servants/slaves.  even though many translations muddy this portion up.  The aplified version is one of a few that does translate this word correctly in it uses the term "bondservants". 

The reason it makes a big difference is because a bondservant is one that "used" to be a slave/servant that worked for their master due to paying off a debt they owed.  A bondservant is one who's debt has been paid and yet "chooses" to be a slave/servant to their master based on their relationship of love that came through the coarse of time when they were laboring as a slave due to debt.

Revelation is written to those who "choose" to pursue the Father beyond religious expectations.  The master would then take and awl, lead the servant to the threshold of the master's house and pierce the servant's ear with the awl, put a ring in it signifying the eternal commitment the servant made to the master. 

We either live for Jesus because he paid for our debt and we're beholding to him, or we live for Jesus because we've fallen in love with him.  Love is the key that brings illumination to the act of revelation.  Those who serve Jesus out of a laboring mind are the same that get bogged down in the language given in the book of Revelation.  Those who let Christ live in them out of relationship are actually "caught up" in celebration at the reading of the same book.

It all simply depends on whether I'm a servant or a bondservant.

[Beloved Servant]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=veT1G-_aAsg&feature=related

[thinktank]

I get it, hidden coded message of the rapture  :winkgrin:


Those who let Christ live in them out of relationship are actually "caught up" in celebration at the reading of the same book.

Nathan

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, it's actually true.  :Sparkletooth: Every time the Spirit opens your eyes to something of the kingdom in a twinkling of an eye, you ARE being "caught up" out of your ways (of understanding) and into His.

His ways are not our ways, His ways are much HIGHER than our ways. If you keep at it, keep on getting "caught up", sooner or later, you'll be "no more" because you walked with God in obedience to what you saw. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Well, it's actually true.  :Sparkletooth: Every time the Spirit opens your eyes to something of the kingdom in a twinkling of an eye, you ARE being "caught up" out of your ways (of understanding) and into His.

His ways are not our ways, His ways are much HIGHER than our ways. If you keep at it, keep on getting "caught up", sooner or later, you'll be "no more" because you walked with God in obedience to what you saw. Blessings....

EXCELLENT! :thumbsup: :happygrin:

[eaglesway]

And the bow(rainbow) shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
(Gen 9:16-17)

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
(Rev 10:1)

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
(Rom 8:19-22)

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
(Rev 5:11-13)

[Redlettervoice]

.

Hello Jabcat!! Blessings! Brother!!! I have ONLY read the first post here and see that you want
the revelation of Jesus Christ. I think Jesus Christ ''revealed'' it thru the Father to Peter, when
Jesus said to him, "Blessed art thou, Peter, for ''flesh and blood'' hath NOT ''revealed'' this to
you but my Father which art in heaven.'' Jabcat, that means Peter was spoken to by the Spirit.
It is no different for any of us, please do not try to get it for yourself thru ''another man''.....
God will talk to you himself. You are as much the object of His Love as Peter was.  Just keep on
reading where God ''is'' talking to you, and keep on keeping on.

Blessings as you wait for the voice of the Father! 

[micah7:9]

Glory!

[Nathan]

"This" is why I cringe when others post pages and pages of reference commentaries on things that aren't meant to be interpreted through means of reasoning minds, but rather through personal illumination.  It's not just now and then that God reveals something to us.  Jesus proclaimed that his entire church would be built on this principle.  The principle of the Father revealing the nature of his Son into the hearts of man.  And the gates (authority) of hell (Ghenna/pile of dung/Paul's reference to accumulated religious knowledge) can not prevail (denounce, cast down, brush off lightly) against it. (Nathan's amplifying version)

[eaglesway]

And the gates (authority) of hell (Ghenna/pile of dung/Paul's reference to accumulated religious knowledge) can not prevail (denounce, cast down, brush off lightly) against it. (Nathan's amplifying version)

Amen

[Quaesitor]

This last book of information that has been given to the slaves/servants is an inworking within the very Christ growing in those that are hearing what the Spirit is saying to the called out. I (and I speak only for me) remain miffed as to why the saints continue to make this manifestation, the revealing of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last a confliction and abrasion to understanding that it is Christ in you the hope of Glory. That the Lord Himself, revealed, showed us the very workings that will and must take place in the Overcomer. The Book and the revealings of the last Book...are a work to be done in you, the Overcomer.

Of course it is only my understanding      Peace and Love Through Jesus

Your first line here sort of strikes a chord with me . . .Revelation 1, the very opening verse that leads into these great mysteries to the minds of men, it first describes "who" this book is to be written "to".  There's a great difference between a servant/slave and a bondservant.  Thsi book was not written to servants/slaves.  even though many translations muddy this portion up.  The aplified version is one of a few that does translate this word correctly in it uses the term "bondservants". 

The reason it makes a big difference is because a bondservant is one that "used" to be a slave/servant that worked for their master due to paying off a debt they owed.  A bondservant is one who's debt has been paid and yet "chooses" to be a slave/servant to their master based on their relationship of love that came through the coarse of time when they were laboring as a slave due to debt.

Revelation is written to those who "choose" to pursue the Father beyond religious expectations.  The master would then take and awl, lead the servant to the threshold of the master's house and pierce the servant's ear with the awl, put a ring in it signifying the eternal commitment the servant made to the master. 

We either live for Jesus because he paid for our debt and we're beholding to him, or we live for Jesus because we've fallen in love with him.  Love is the key that brings illumination to the act of revelation.  Those who serve Jesus out of a laboring mind are the same that get bogged down in the language given in the book of Revelation.  Those who let Christ live in them out of relationship are actually "caught up" in celebration at the reading of the same book.

It all simply depends on whether I'm a servant or a bondservant.

That is excellent, I just wish there was a term for bondservant in french.