The Fall of Man

[micah7:9]

Did man fall? No he did not fall.  The teaching of the "fall of man" is a christian lie.
And if man did fall, from what did man fall?
From where die he fall?
Did God error?
Did God make a mistake in His creation?
Yes I am agressive because if man fell, then God, The Creator made a mistake. I not believe that God can, will, or does make mistakes. And so I say Adam was in fact working in the very WILL of God in Gen. 3 and forth worth.
MAN NEVER FELL, THERE IS NO FALL OF MAN, MAN IS IN THE VERY ORDER OF HIS WILL.
Should you prove that "man fell," you will prove that God is a hoax and I for one can not accept that.

[Nathan]

Uh oh . . . watch the worms . . .the can is being opened again . . .

[Shadow]

Did man fall?

Yes, and it was preplanned in advance, according to the bible

Rev 13v8

Romans 8 v20-21

[Beloved Servant]

Did man fall?

No.
He was created.

[Nathan]

Told ya . . .

Here . . .my two cents . . .In Adam's eyes, he may have fallen, he may have chosen.  Either way, God led it all.

[Nathan]

I just had a thought on this . . .imagine a long wooden trough that was as wide as it was long.  On one end was a small inlet where a flow of water constantly came in.  At the other end, an outlet where the water flowed out.  Consider the water  to be the presence of God and the waters current to be God's will.  now, place a small float at the inlet, that would be Adam.  Whereever there is water, the float will go.  But eventually, the current will lead it to the outlet.

Adam did have the ability to make choices, yet eventually, the will of God would manifest at one point or another.

For me, the purpose of Adam and Eve and the whole long line of man was to bring glory to Christ . . .Adam had to be in a place where redemption was needed and required in order for Christ to manifest.

[Beloved Servant]

On the 7th day God rested.

Where?

In man.

We are created to be God's Sabbath, a place of rest for Him.

[thinktank]

I belive God is infinite, so if Adam had chosen the tree of life, then God would have had a different plan for Adam and the human race, but Adam choose the tree of knowledge and so God set up the redemption plan.

[Shadow]

But the POINT here is that God KNEW what choices Adam would make and let it happen anyway

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:[/b]

To say God was surprised by anything is denying reality, the illusion of free will is a tactic manufactured to shift the blame onto us for being created sinners, which was something we had no control over in the first place

[LS]

But the POINT here is that God KNEW what choices Adam would make and let it happen anyway ... To say God was surprised by anything is denying reality, the illusion of free will is a tactic manufactured to shift the blame onto us for being created sinners, which was something we had no control over in the first place

Shadow, if God made man in His image and truly gave us freedom to choose ... how could He not "let it happen anyway?" If He overrides the choices we freely make, we really aren't free, are we?

If we are really free to choose good or evil, life or death, He must allow us to choose them even if it is not His will that we do so; even if it is not what He desires for us.  Either we are free to choose, or we are not.

I believe we are, and with that comes the consequences we suffer in this life both from our own choices, and from the choices others make. 

[Shadow]

Whether there is freewill or not, the POINT is that is doesn't change the final OUTCOME of everything, which has been set in stone anyway

Rev13v8

[thinktank]

Whether there is freewill or not, the POINT is that is doesn't change the final OUTCOME of everything, which has been set in stone anyway

Rev13v8

I think you have forgotten this verse which says

"He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"

Also

"He that bagan a work in me will complete till the day of Christ"


If you have genuinly asked Jesus into your heart then he will come in and sup with you. Maybe you don't feel anything yet. But one thing though I have learned is that it may be us that doesn't want to feel God, maybe you feel unworthy or scared and don't want God almighty to come in and give you a cuddle. It is harder to feel God if you find it hard to connect with other people. We hide things deep in our hearts that we sometimes don't even realize for years, so we might say one thing, but a big hidden part of us belives something else.

[WhiteWings]

I think you have forgotten this verse which says

How did you conclude that from Shadows post TT?

[thinktank]

Here's a technique God showed me. Sometimes words are "tainted" by the society we live in or by people we know. E.g the word love might carry some negative energy due to the way people have abused this word for, lust or something else. The word Jesus Christ is also tainted by people who use it to swear, the word Christian can also be tainted, by people who use that word in a bad way. You might say I' m a christian, instead of thinking of a person of love the person might think oh no here's one of those boring "christians"
Even though they might not say the word boring, it is painted onto the word Christian when they say it.

So it might help to ask God to use the blood of the lamb to wash away the negative aspects about the word "love" and any others you think of that carry negativity about them, when they should be "good words" in their meaning. Beause words are often tainted it helps to do this often. In fact right now the word Christian to me is conjuring up some negative images, so I ask God to wash this word by his blood in Jesus name.

[thinktank]

I think you have forgotten this verse which says

How did you conclude that from Shadows post TT?

She said on another thread that she thinks she's destined that she won't be written in the lambs book of life, so this is the root of her argument.

[Shadow]

She said on another thread that she thinks she's destined that she won't be written in the lambs book of life, so this is the root of her argument.

Precisely

[peacemaker]

She said on another thread that she thinks she's destined that she won't be written in the lambs book of life, so this is the root of her argument.

Precisely

"Because one is not consciously aware of something, does not mean it is excluded."

peacemaker

[peacemaker]

The body responds to what it thinks and feels; not to what is...

"A longing of expectation, as we are subjected to frustrations, often times on a daily basis in hope of change."

How else will you develop the faith to believe in that, which you do not see?

peacemaker

[micah7:9]

Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,

[thinktank]

Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,

I think that verse is talking about the animal kingdom.

[micah7:9]

Here's a technique God showed me. Sometimes words are "tainted" by the society we live in or by people we know. E.g the word love might carry some negative energy due to the way people have abused this word for, lust or something else. The word Jesus Christ is also tainted by people who use it to swear, the word Christian can also be tainted, by people who use that word in a bad way. You might say I' m a christian, instead of thinking of a person of love the person might think oh no here's one of those boring "christians"
Even though they might not say the word boring, it is painted onto the word Christian when they say it.

So it might help to ask God to use the blood of the lamb to wash away the negative aspects about the word "love" and any others you think of that carry negativity about them, when they should be "good words" in their meaning. Beause words are often tainted it helps to do this often. In fact right now the word Christian to me is conjuring up some negative images, so I ask God to wash this word by his blood in Jesus name.

Who taints the words, the hearer or the speaker?

[micah7:9]

Did man fall?

No.
He was created.

Im just asking, but what does that mean as far as the fall of man?

[Pierac]

OK,

Everyone SLOW down!

Read what has been posted! It's way past the concept of counter and recounter as there has never been an actual counter!

Get the picture?  :wink:

Have some actual... FUN! Yes, discussing your view point!  :thumbsup:

Paul

[micah7:9]

You  my friend are absolutly correct.  I will ask again the question.... in the garden, did man fall, or was he in the perfect will of God, The Father Jehovah?

[Beloved Servant]

The term, "The Fall of Man," to me, implies an action outside of the Sovereignty of God.

We have not fallen anywhere except into His plan.

Make no mistake about it.

Psalm 132: (King James Version)

13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

15 I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread.

16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.