On Sunday morning just before worship service, I was washing my hands and thinking about what I was supposed to minister on. I was considering the fact that we only had a few in church that morning because of sickness or being out of town, and I thought , "Why am I doing this?" Suddenly these words echoed in my mine; OH LITTLE TOWN OF BETHLEHIM.
I went into the sanctuary and during the worship service I wrote down the words to the song and God began to speak their message to me.
OH LITTLE TOWN OF BETHLEHIM,
All over the world there are small groups of people who have stood faithful as a little flock , they have borne the heat of the day and stood strong in faith, waiting for the promise of the Father; A manifestation of life, revealed through a Word, heard in the fire of Spiritual visitation . These small groups of people are assembled in Bethlehem, a birth is about to take place.
Galatians 4:19 (KJV)
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
The word formed means: To fashion, through the idea of adjustment of parts.
Christ is being formed in us, and soon to be manifested in us.
HOW STILL , WE SEE THEE LIE
The world is watching these small groups of churches, and because they judge by the sight of the religious mind set, they think nothing is happening in our midst, we are still, there seems to be no movement and nothing accomplished in God.
ABOVE THY DEEP AND DREAMLESS SLEEP, THE SILENT STARS GO BY.
Because they see no movement, we are considered to be asleep and have no vision. We are labeled as silent stars, with nothing to say .
YET IN THY DARK STREETS SHINETH, THE EVERLASTING LIGHT.
The world sees our way as being a dark street , because they are looking at the outward appearance, not being aware that within this people there shines and everlasting light that will shine brighter and brighter unto the perfect day!
THE HOPES AND FEARS OF ALL THE YEARS, ARE MET IN THEE TONIGHT.
We are compassed about with a great cloud of witnesses that have waited through centuries of time for this day. A people who hoped against hope, believing the plan and purpose of the Father would come to its conclusion in a people ordained to appear in the likeness and image of their Father.
This song
quickened by the Spirit, spoke to me, and I believe God is telling me, that the hopes and fears of all the years, shall be met in small groups of people across the land. They have seen His star and have assembled themselves in Bethlehem to witness His Birth.
The manifestation of the SONS OF GOD! AMEN.
alyce mcpherson
O little town of Bethlehem
How still we see thee lie
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep
The silent stars go by
Yet in thy dark streets shineth
The everlasting Light
The hopes and fears of all the years
Are met in thee tonight
Christ is born of Mary
And gathered all above
While mortals sleep, the angels keep
Their watch of wondering love
O morning stars together
Proclaim the holy birth
And praises sing to God the King
And Peace to men on earth
How silently, how silently
The wondrous gift is given!
So God imparts to human hearts
The blessings of His heaven.
No ear may hear His coming,
But in this world of sin,
Where meek souls will receive him still,
The dear Christ enters in.
O holy Child of Bethlehem
Descend to us, we pray
Cast out our sin and enter in
Be born to us today
We hear the Christmas angels
The great glad tidings tell
O come to us, abide with us
Our Lord Emmanuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtIokMInmfA
I thought it was house of bread :dontknow:
Quote from: redhotmagma on December 17, 2011, 03:19:35 AM
I thought it was house of bread :dontknow:
oops, you're right Must be a typo in E-sword. I'll remove that post.
Bethlehem
H1035
בּית לחם
bêyth lechem
bayth leh'-khem
From H1004 and H3899;
house of bread; Beth-Lechem, a place in Palestine: - Beth-lehem.
House of Bread. How beautiful. This is my body. O man, what a wondrous thing koinonea is. Lord Jesus, let us eat, and rejoice!
I'd heard once that "Bethel" which later became "El Bethel" which is "house of God" and then "God of the house of God" later became Bethlehem which is house of bread . . .anyone have anything on that?
Quote from: Nathan on December 20, 2011, 02:37:17 AM
I'd heard once that "Bethel" which later became "El Bethel" which is "house of God" and then "God of the house of God" later became Bethlehem which is house of bread . . .anyone have anything on that?
Gen 35 we just read it last night (in the message :winkgrin:) as a family.
Ephrath is Bethlehem, they were leaving Bethel. Benjamin was born between the two cities
And the angel of God spoke unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.
--Gen 31:11
I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed the pillar, and where you vowed a vow unto me: now arise, get you out from this land, and return unto the land of your kindred.
--Gen 31:13
I am
the God of Beth-el
el beyth-el
the God of the house of God
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
--Micah 5:2
"Ephratah"
fruitfulness
Could we say 'house of fruitful bread'? Or 'house of the bread of life'?
Another interesting thing:
Ephraim comes from the name Ephratah which is the other name for the town of Bethlehem.
Ephraim means double fruit.
Ephraim was the younger son of Joseph who received the lineage blessing instead of his older brother Manasseh because Jacob switched his hands before he gave the blessing, putting his right hand on Ephraim. The tribe of Joseph receives a double blessing,--double fruit- through the line of Ephraim [and Manasseh].
Many think Ephraim and Manasseh are today's Christians of the West, Europe and the USA.
14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
--Genesis 48
"a multitude of nations"
the fulness of the Gentiles
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Rom 11:25
Here you go, WW. I have to admit, this made me smile. :icon_king:
What is the "Double Portion Inheritance"?
During the summer of 2007, while I was in a season of intense prayer and fasting, I was shown through scripture and through divine revelation, that the "Double Portion" anointing which rested upon the prophet Elisha, is that of Elijah & Moses.
This is the very same anointing which rested on YaHuW'shuwa himself, which is why he was seen at the Mount of Transfiguration with both Moshe & Elijah as seen in Matthew 17:3-4.
With these two "anointings" of Moses & Elijah comes the perfect balance and harmony of Law & Prophets, Spirit & Truth, Wisdom & Revelation, Mercy & Judgment.
The "Double Portion" is the inheritance handed down from Jacob/Israel to his son Joseph (who was a type of Messiah) in Genesis 48. Joseph had two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. But it was Ephraim, (the younger of the two) which is metaphorically and prophetically symbolized as the "Gentile" Christian believers in YaHuW'shuwa. Because Ephraim was raised by an Egyptian mother under paganism, he thought that he was a Gentile or a "stranger." But because Ephraim had the blood of his Hebrew father Joseph in his veins, he was an heir to the covenant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) his grandfather.
In the same way, those who are born again believers in YaHuW'shuwa, who have been raised in a heathen society dictated by pagan customs, are considered "Gentiles" yet because of their faith in YaHuW'shuwa the Messiah, they actually possess in them the blood/life of the Jewish Messiah and this means that these born again Gentiles are "Jewish" by the blood of YaHuW'shuwa (Romans 2:28-29).
Ephraim thought he was an Egyptian, because he and his brother Manasseh were raised as an Egyptians. But when their grandfather Jacob/Israel prayed the blessing over them he declared "Let my name be named upon them" and this is when they realized that their true inheritance was with Israel!
Jacob/Israel also gave a portion of his blessing to his son Judah (Yahuw'dah), who later became a tribe which we today call "Jews" or Yahuw'dim in Hebrew. (Genesis 49:8-10)
To his favorite son Joseph, Jacob/Israel gave the "Double Portion Blessing" (Genesis 48:22) and this represents the ministry of YaHuW'shuwa the Messiah. YaHuW'shuwa, like Joseph has inherited the tribe of Ephraim through his marriage to the Christian Gentile Church and he has also inherited the house of Judah his brother (Jews) by virtue of the Heavenly Father's marriage to Rachel (Jews). And so YaHuW'shuwa inherits both houses: Ephraim & Judah. In other words, the remnant of the Christians in the Church who come out of Mystery Babylon (Revelation 18:4) and realize their inheritance with Israel make up the "stick of Ephraim" (10 Northern Tribes of Israel). And then the Jews who end up finding YaHuW'shuwa as their Messiah make up the "stick of Judah" (2 Southern Tribes of Israel). And together these two "sticks" become ONE STICK IN THE HAND OF YaHuWaH (Ezekiel 37:16-17)
These two tribes of Ephraim & Judah make up the distinct 12 tribes of Israel.
In Ezekiel 37:16-17, we are given a prophecy about these two tribes Judah & Ephraim coming together and becoming "one stick" in the hand of YaHuWaH.
What brings these two tribes together?
In Ephesians 2:15, the Apostle Paul (Shaul) tells us that YaHuW'shuwa has abolished this man-made ordinance by the Rabbis which prevented the Gentiles from coming near the outer court of the temple. By the blood of YaHuW'shuwa, Gentiles who were once alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, have now been brought near to the temple because he has broken down the middle wall of partition which divided Jew & Gentile, so as to make of the "Two Tribes" (Judah & Ephraim) ONE NEW MAN!
YaHuW'shuwa is now building us together into "One New Man" in the Olive Tree (Romans 11:17-21) natural branches (Jews) and the wild branches (Gentiles) are now being called by the Holy Spirit to form a "corporate" army of end time prophets who will preach an uncompromising Apostolic message in these last days that will shake the world and turn it upside down!
The "two witnesses" of Revelation 11:4 are "the two candlesticks" and the "two olive trees." These "two candlesticks" are shown to us in Revelation 1:20 as the overcoming churches, which are Smyrna & Philadelphia. The two olive trees, are the "wild & natural" branches or in other words these two divided kingdoms of Israel (10 Northern Tribes & 2 Southern Tribes) which are the tribes of Ephraim & Judah (Jew & Gentile Believers in YaHuW'shuwa) who come together carrying the anointing of Moses & Elijah (Revelation 11:6).
The Messianic Believers who have the Law of Moses (Torah) bring the element of the anointing of Moses, and the Gentile Believers who flow more freely in the gifts of the Holy Spirit carry the anointing of Elijah (Spirit). When these two groups come together in "Spirit & Truth" bringing together the elements of "Law & Prophets" it will bring with it the most powerful anointing and outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the history of mankind!
In order for believers to walk in the "Double Portion Anointing," we must have both of these elements working in perfect harmony in YaHuW'shuwa the Messiah.
The 1st Century Jewish Apostles had this double portion anointing, and we read about it in the book of Acts. They moved in signs, wonders and the miraculous, but they also taught from the Law of Moses (Torah) every Sabbath day.
Contrary to popular belief, the Apostles did not teach that the Law of Moses was abolished, but rather they taught that the Law of Moses has now been written upon our hearts and minds on the Day of Pentecost (called Shabuoth), with the Baptism in Fire & the Holy Spirit.
The Law "contained in ordinances" which were the man-made decrees by the Rabbis were "abolished" (Ephesians 2:14-15). And the Levitical Priesthood is now superceded by a heavenly Priesthood called the "Zadok" (Tzadiq) or righteous priesthood. This is the same order of priests which all born again believers are called to be a part of. YaHuW'shuwa has now brought in a new "administration" (2nd Corinthians 3) after the order of Melchizedek "Malki-Tzadiq" (meaning King of righteousness, Hebrews 7). Every born again believer is called to be part of this royal priesthood under our High Priest, YaHuW'shuwa (1st Peter 2, Revelation 1:6, 5:10, 20:6).
http://www.doubleportioninheritance.com/fr_home.cfm
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 05:11:43 AM
Another interesting thing:
Ephraim comes from the name Ephratah which is the other name for the town of Bethlehem.
Ephraim means double fruit.
Ephraim was the younger son of Joseph who received the lineage blessing instead of his older brother Manasseh because Jacob switched his hands before he gave the blessing, putting his right hand on Ephraim. The tribe of Joseph receives a double blessing,--double fruit- through the line of Ephraim [and Manasseh].
Many think Ephraim and Manasseh are today's Christians of the West, Europe and the USA.
14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
--Genesis 48
"a multitude of nations"
the fulness of the Gentiles
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Rom 11:25
Very good Molly.
The article from Maria Merola is one person's individual experience and belief, and she may be 100% correct.
However, I don't see where this is instructing anyone who's a Gentile, "of the nations", to go back into observances that were handed down to the nation of Israel under the era of temple worship. I also don't see where that negates anything Paul said about those things being a shadow, and that the reality of Christ has come - and telling them no one was to sit in judgment of them as they chose to not participate in those things.
As I've said, I still believe if anyone feels led to do it, if they feel it fits a ministry somehow, etc., then there's also no judging there - one way or the other.
If God sees fit to bring those two groups of people together somehow to bring about His will, that's great and it's His doing. I said in an earlier post that God could change my mind in the next age [if He chooses to do things differently somehow]. But for now, as a gentile this side of the cross, who never received instruction to partcipate in Jewish holy days, etc., i.e., a New Testament believer, I don't believe those observances necessarily apply to me. I don't believe anybody's personal opinion on how they think is "best", personal wishes, or desires, take away the words of the Apostle Paul.
What do the scriptures say?
Colossians 2 - having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross... 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you...taking his stand on visions he has seen... 20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees...in accordance with the teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Hey Jabcat, just a thought, (the Bible does a lot of bringing up thoughts); but were we not all under the law before Jesus found us and called us? Not talking about all the festivals and celebrations, but were we not all under the law whether we adhered to its commandments or not?
before i saw your post, i took that part out because i thought it might be controversial and didn't want it seized upon to distract from my main points.
that's a matter of debate which i didn't wish to derail. some (such as Zender) argue it was handed down to the Jews only - but spiritually, i think in some sense, yes we were under it - if in no other way, it revealed our sin.
my main point is, with the progressive revelation of Paul's ministry, i believe he clearly taught we were not obligated to observe days, ordinances, festivals, etc. Paul and Peter even "argued" about some of that, with Peter being (mostly) dispatched to the Jews, while Paul was dispatched to "us", the gentiles/nations. but hey, if anyone wishes or feels led to do those things, gets blessed by it, etc., no big argument from me. I just resist it being touted as "a better way", or something that is necessarily a "good thing" for all - when the Bible says otherwise.
What interests me is the prophecy about it, the idea of bringing the twelve tribes back together [the northern ten tribes of Israel and the southern two tribes of Judah] and holding them in his hand as ONE STICK. That makes so much sense to me, but I'm not sure what it would look like.
Did you guys study that in Sunday school?
He says he has broken down the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile to create one new man. What does that new man look like? Wouldn't look like [pagan] Gentile and wouldn't look like talmudic Jew. He would be something new and diferent from both by virtue of the synergy in Christ.
I am now firmly convinced in my own mind, that all believers in Christ come from these twelve tribes [ten of them were lost to history] although not all members of these tribes are believers in Christ as we see in our own families. But that is the prophecy--I will make of you a multitude of nations and in your seed they will bless all the families of the world.
Also this idea of the double portion--the law through Judah and the Spirit through the Gentiles [Joseph/Ephraim,] or what Cardinal would call flesh and bones.
But, I don't believe the law is to be a burden to us Gentiles--he is writing it on our [new] hearts [of flesh]. It would be something that would come naturally, that we would desire.
I wish I knew more about the early church, because I do agree with her that this will be the model.
It couldn't have been too elaborate, since they were mostly carrying on in secret.
I guess I have to study the Book of Acts.
Another thing--
The Jews have kept themselves set apart, very much so, from the Gentile world. Gentiles are 'other' to them. And, I think we sense that, the way things are now.
And, I can't see myself rocking and kissing the wailing wall.
So this would require some kind of huge change on both sides.
Quote from: jabcat on December 20, 2011, 06:50:46 AM
before i saw your post, i took that part out because i thought it might be controversial and didn't want it seized upon to distract from my main points.
that's a matter of debate which i didn't wish to derail. some (such as Zender) argue it was handed down to the Jews only - but spiritually, i think in some sense, yes we were under it - if in no other way, it revealed our sin.
my main point is, with the progressive revelation of Paul's ministry, i believe he clearly taught we were not obligated to observe days, ordinances, festivals, etc. Paul and Peter even "argued" about some of that, with Peter being (mostly) dispatched to the Jews, while Paul was dispatched to "us", the gentiles/nations. but hey, if anyone wishes or feels led to do those things, gets blessed by it, etc., no big argument from me. I just resist it being touted as "a better way", or something that is necessarily a "good thing" for all - when the Bible says otherwise.
First, those words were from alyce mcphperson, not me. I believe that we were all under the law whether we knew about it or not, before Jesus found us by the preaching of Christ crucified. In fact I don't really know what the Gentiles(nations) did religiously, I have not looked into it, its not what I have been led to do, accept it sure was not knowing Jesus Christ. Peter did hold on to ministering to the Jews, we can only wonder why, Paul was sent directly to the nations(Gentiles) to preach Jesus Christ crucified. I do believe that should man continue to recognize and celebrate festivals and rituals not taught by what the Bible through Jesus Christ, are not yet mature.
Heb 5:12 For, even when
ye ought to be teachers, by reason of the time, again, have ye,
need, that one be teaching, you, what are the first principles of the oracles of God, and have become such as have, need, of milk, not, of strong food; Heb 5:13 For, every one partaking of milk, is unskilled in discourse of righteousness, for he is, a babe;
Heb 5:14 But, to such as are mature, pertaineth, the strong food, to them who, by reason of habit, have their organs of perception well trained for discriminating both good and evil.
Anyway that was sister mcpherson's offering of how she felt. I now perhaps should not have posted it.
nah, it's ok micah! I was just a little slow getting it out of there :laughing7: because I recognized it as a potential "whole other discussion". It's probably a good one. Start a thread on it!
Molly, before reading your post, I was just thinking about the "one new man", and as you say, what that really "should" look like. Because I believe much of what people do are cultural, and I wonder what God's perfect will is (and will end up being and looking like in the next age).
I believe Paul was talking to a mix of spiritually reborn Jews and spiritually reborn gentiles, when he was telling them it was "OK" to not observe the days, festivals, etc. However, some in the early church apparently did, as evidenced by Peter and James' ministry. As I said earlier, they were even insisting to be a true believer one must still get circumcised, but Paul didn't, uh, agree with that so much. :laughing7: But then in one place, he did agree to circumcise someone. So again, how much of that was cultural, and even "being all things to all men", etc.? I'm not sure. The writer you posted mentioned about the early church meeting on the sabbath. Well, apparently some of them did, but again, is that because they were "supposed" to, or because they hadn't as yet moved away from some of their traditions, culture, what they thought was still pleasing to God? In Paul's famous Colossians "don't any man judge you" passage, the sabbath is one of the things he mentioned. So IMO, to use their keeping the sabbath as a litmus test or example to necessarily follow, is to me questionable, since Paul later addressed it as he did.
I don't want to have an ongoing battle of articles :drama:, but this article I found says SO MUCH of the way I personally believe - not just about this issue, but also about MANY things about rightly dividing the Word that I think are SO important and we/I often miss. I want to post it, then I'll work on getting out of this discussion and let others carry on.
In Colossians, the "you" is those born again of God's holy spirit, for whom no such holiday observance is ever prescribed. In fact, the above verses are saying that there is no such thing that is relevant to the Church, the Body of Christ, Christians. Do the Church Epistles say that Christians should get together with others and celebrate, sing, praise, worship, pray, minister, hear the Word—and eat? Absolutely. But there is no prescribed day—or way.
Consider this: if Christians are to keep the feasts of Judaism, should they not keep the whole Law? In Galatians 5:3, Paul says just that, substituting "circumcision" as the part of the Law in question. Take a good look at verses 1-15 in order to get the whole context, and to see what Paul (writing by revelation from Jesus Christ) thinks about Christians being put under any part of the old Mosaic Law. If we are to keep the feasts, what about animal sacrifices to worship God? No, Christians are not required to keep these laws.
The epistle to the Hebrews is one of the earlier epistles, and was written primarily to ex-Jewish Christians, many of whom were still clinging to their old ways. In Hebrews 7-10, God works hard to show them that the ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law were no longer applicable. For example: (7:18 and 19) "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God;" (9:9 and 10) "[The Tabernacle was] an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order;" (10:1) "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—and not the realities themselves..." Amen.
Some Christians who do not understand the administrations in Scripture, and who thus believe we should observe the Jewish feasts, etc., cite Matthew 5:17-19, where Jesus said that he had not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. First, to whom was he speaking? Jews. The Mosaic Law never did have anything to do with Christians. A key phrase in what Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 is that nothing would disappear from the Law "until everything is accomplished." Jesus did accomplish everything he needed to relative to the Levitical Law, and that is why it is no longer in effect. Today, we have no Temple, no Levites, no Aaronite priests, no animal sacrifices, etc. For both Jews and Gentiles, adhering to Romans 10:9 is the only way to salvation. When either does so, he is then "neither Jew nor Gentile" (Gal. 3:28), but a Christian, a member of the Body of Christ.
Remember Hebrews 10:1 (above)? The Law was not the reality to which God looked forward. Then remember what Colossians 2:17 said about the festivals and holidays? "These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." In that light, consider the following verses:
1 Corinthians 5:6-8 (NKJV)
(6) Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
(7) Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
(8) Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
What's the point? That because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, and his giving the gift of holy spirit on the Day of Pentecost, believers today ("Christians") are unique in the annals of spiritual history. If.. you are born again of God's spirit .. in Christ, you have been cleansed of sin from the inside out. The Redeemer to whom the Old Testament feasts and rituals pointed now lives in your heart. There is no ritual or work you need to do in order to stand approved before your heavenly Father. Knowing your standing as a son of God should make every day worth celebrating! - truthortradition.com
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:27:15 AM
And, I can't see myself rocking and kissing the wailing wall.
:laugh2:
the change would definitely need to be from God, cause we'd mess it all up like we've messed up "church" with the thousands of denominations... :mblush:
"I am now firmly convinced in my own mind, that all believers in Christ come from these twelve tribes [ten of them were lost to history] although not all members of these tribes are believers in Christ as we see in our own families. But that is the prophecy--I will make of you a multitude of nations and in your seed they will bless all the families of the world.
Also this idea of the double portion--the law through Judah and the Spirit through the Gentiles [Joseph/Ephraim,] or what Cardinal would call flesh and bones."
Well I don't walk in that vein. Isa 43:19 Behold me! doing a new thing, Now, shall it spring forth, Will ye not take note thereof? Surely I will set In the desert, a way, In a desolate land, rivers:
We can "spiritually" discern the "double portion," or flesh and bones, but I wonder why there is nothing taught about a double portion in the NT?
Just what do we think the word NEW means? For me it means
2Co 5:17 so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Gal 6:15 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;
"the change would definitely need to be from God, cause we'd mess it all up like we've messed up "church" with the thousands of denominations... " Jabcat
Now I like that especially the last part! :mshock:
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
I wonder why there is nothing taught about a double portion in the NT?
That's a really good question! I'm going to need to explore that a bit.
That's really sort of what the article I posted is getting at too, "what/who/when is being told what". :2c:
Yes, that makes sense JAB. So if you are in Christ, for instance, every day is the Sabbath because he is Lord of the Sabbath and we have entered into his rest.
But, I think it is important to know that--to know the commandment--to keep it holy--wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Isaiah 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
Jer 33
7And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Jer 33
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah
15 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: 'The LORD Is Our Righteousness.'
Quote from: jabcat on December 20, 2011, 07:53:31 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
I wonder why there is nothing taught about a double portion in the NT?
That's a really good question! I'm going to need to explore that a bit.
That's really sort of what the article I posted is getting at too, "what/who/when is being told what". :2c:
It is in the NT.
For one off the top of my head, you see in Revelation both Joseph and Ephraim listed amog the twelve tribes. [Dan is gone.]
Also, the transfiguration with Moses and Elijah standing on either side of Jesus.
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Very good points! :thumbsup: From some angles I'd never quite looked from before. :thumbsup: again!
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 08:01:17 AM
Quote from: jabcat on December 20, 2011, 07:53:31 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
I wonder why there is nothing taught about a double portion in the NT?
That's a really good question! I'm going to need to explore that a bit.
That's really sort of what the article I posted is getting at too, "what/who/when is being told what". :2c:
It is in the NT.
For one off the top of my head, you see in Revelation both Joseph and Ephraim listed amog the twelve tribes. [Dan is gone.]
Also, the transfiguration with Moses and Elijah standing on either side of Jesus.
Can you explain that to me?
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Yes, that makes sense JAB. So if you are in Christ, for instance, every day is the Sabbath because he is Lord of the Sabbath and we have entered into his rest.
But, I think it is important to know that--to know the commandment--to keep it holy--wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Isaiah 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
Jer 33
7And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Jer 33
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah
15 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: 'The LORD Is Our Righteousness.'
"The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them."
I understand there to be one commandment, I sure like the way the Lord does math, Joh 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
I was always bad with math, but He made it simple for me. I don't understand computers but they seem to have the same simple way, from what I have been told all a computer uses is 1 and 0. I ain't(am not) as smart as a computer but there is only ONE commandment as far as I can tell. But I know this to be a truth, "wow that means every day is holy." Molly
Explain the double portion? Probably not too well tonight. But I'll start.
You know each tribe of Israel gets a portion of land from the LORD as their inheritance. And the Levite [priests'] portion is God himself.
But, when it came to Joseph, a type of Christ, he was given a double portion because both sons received a portion, instead of just the eldest son, with the youngest son receiving the lion's share.
Jacob separates the covenant blessings also, giving the right of rulership to Judah, and the blessings to Joseph in a double portion. So sometimes we see this as one tribe being called Joseph [Ephraim] and one tribe called Manasseh as in Rev. 7, and sometimes we see the two tribes as Ephraim and Manasseh, as when they are given their portion of land in the promised land--but either way, the tribe of Joseph gets a double portion.
Then the question becomes --what is the spiritual meaning of that double portion? So we look at Jesus for the answer--the law and the prophets, the law [word] and Spirit, King and Priest--come to mind quickly.
Did you read that article I posted? Here is what she gives as the double portion anointing:
Moses & Elijah (Malachi 4:4-5, Matthew 17:3-5)
Law & Prophets (Matthew 22:40, Romans 3:21)
Truth & Spirit (John 4:24)
Wisdom & Revelation (Ephesians 1:17)
Judgment & Mercy (Psalms 101:1, Hosea 12:6, Zechariah 7:9)
Judah & Ephraim = One Stick (Ezekiel 37:16-17)
Jew & Gentile = One New Man (Ephesians 2:15)
Smyrna & Philadelphia (Revelation 1:20, 11:4)
Justification & Sanctification (1st Corinthians 6:11, James 2:24)
Wise as Serpents & Gentle as Doves (Matthew 10:16)
The Two Edged Sword (Psalms 149:6, Hebrews 4:12, Revelation 1:16; 2:12)
Two Candlesticks & Two Olive Trees (Revelation 11:4)
King & Priest = The Melchizedek Order (Hebrews 7)
Lion & Lamb = YaHuW'shuwa Messiah (Revelation 5:5-6)
Messiah Ben Joseph & Messiah Ben David = YaHuW'shuwa
12 Tribes & 12 Apostles (Revelation 21)
Father & Son = YaHuWaH Elohiym (1st John 2:22-23)
Rachel & Leah = Israel (Genesis 31:4, Ruth 4:11)
Joshua (Ephraim) & Caleb (Judah) = Two Spies
Both elements must always co-exist together in Messiah YaHuW'shuwa. He is the one who inherits the Double Portion Blessing of Joseph. We are joint-heirs with him in this Double Portion Blessing only when we have these two elements as Kings & Priests in the Melchizedek order.
:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance:
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 08:25:16 AM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Yes, that makes sense JAB. So if you are in Christ, for instance, every day is the Sabbath because he is Lord of the Sabbath and we have entered into his rest.
But, I think it is important to know that--to know the commandment--to keep it holy--wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Isaiah 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
Jer 33
7And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Jer 33
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah
15 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: 'The LORD Is Our Righteousness.'
"The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them."
I understand there to be one commandment, I sure like the way the Lord does math, Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
I was always bad with math, but He made it simple for me. I don't understand computers but they seem to have the same simple way, from what I have been told all a computer uses is 1 and 0. I ain't(am not) as smart as a computer but there is only ONE commandment as far as I can tell. But I know this to be a truth, "wow that means every day is holy." Molly
TWO Commandments.
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
--Mat 22
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 09:01:06 AM
Explain the double portion? Probably not too well tonight. But I'll start.
You know each tribe of Israel gets a portion of land from the LORD as their inheritance. And the Levite [priests'] portion is God himself.
But, when it came to Joseph, a type of Christ, he was given a double portion because both sons received a portion, instead of just the eldest son, with the youngest son receiving the lion's share.
Jacob separates the covenant blessings also, giving the right of rulership to Judah, and the blessings to Joseph in a double portion. So sometimes we see this as one tribe being called Joseph [Ephraim] and one tribe called Manasseh as in Rev. 7, and sometimes we see the two tribes as Ephraim and Manasseh, as when they are given their portion of land in the promised land--but either way, the tribe of Joseph gets a double portion.
Then the question becomes --what is the spiritual meaning of that double portion? So we look at Jesus for the answer--the law and the prophets, the law [word] and Spirit, King and Priest--come to mind quickly.
Did you read that article I posted? Here is what she gives as the double portion anointing:
Moses & Elijah (Malachi 4:4-5, Matthew 17:3-5)
Law & Prophets (Matthew 22:40, Romans 3:21)
Truth & Spirit (John 4:24)
Wisdom & Revelation (Ephesians 1:17)
Judgment & Mercy (Psalms 101:1, Hosea 12:6, Zechariah 7:9)
Judah & Ephraim = One Stick (Ezekiel 37:16-17)
Jew & Gentile = One New Man (Ephesians 2:15)
Smyrna & Philadelphia (Revelation 1:20, 11:4)
Justification & Sanctification (1st Corinthians 6:11, James 2:24)
Wise as Serpents & Gentle as Doves (Matthew 10:16)
The Two Edged Sword (Psalms 149:6, Hebrews 4:12, Revelation 1:16; 2:12)
Two Candlesticks & Two Olive Trees (Revelation 11:4)
King & Priest = The Melchizedek Order (Hebrews 7)
Lion & Lamb = YaHuW'shuwa Messiah (Revelation 5:5-6)
Messiah Ben Joseph & Messiah Ben David = YaHuW'shuwa
12 Tribes & 12 Apostles (Revelation 21)
Father & Son = YaHuWaH Elohiym (1st John 2:22-23)
Rachel & Leah = Israel (Genesis 31:4, Ruth 4:11)
Joshua (Ephraim) & Caleb (Judah) = Two Spies
Both elements must always co-exist together in Messiah YaHuW'shuwa. He is the one who inherits the Double Portion Blessing of Joseph. We are joint-heirs with him in this Double Portion Blessing only when we have these two elements as Kings & Priests in the Melchizedek order.
:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance:
No not the double portion geeshush.
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 08:25:16 AM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Yes, that makes sense JAB. So if you are in Christ, for instance, every day is the Sabbath because he is Lord of the Sabbath and we have entered into his rest.
But, I think it is important to know that--to know the commandment--to keep it holy--wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Isaiah 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
Jer 33
7And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Jer 33
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah
15 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: 'The LORD Is Our Righteousness.'
"The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them."
I understand there to be one commandment, I sure like the way the Lord does math, Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
I was always bad with math, but He made it simple for me. I don't understand computers but they seem to have the same simple way, from what I have been told all a computer uses is 1 and 0. I ain't(am not) as smart as a computer but there is only ONE commandment as far as I can tell. But I know this to be a truth, "wow that means every day is holy." Molly
TWO Commandments.
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
--Mat 22
"
like unto it" means the same. Lets keep it simple. It's ONE commandment.
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 08:25:16 AM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Yes, that makes sense JAB. So if you are in Christ, for instance, every day is the Sabbath because he is Lord of the Sabbath and we have entered into his rest.
But, I think it is important to know that--to know the commandment--to keep it holy--wow that means every day is holy.
In like manner, all the feasts are experienced internally. The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them.
And, we would move about the Temple, as priests do, but it would all be spiritual.
Isaiah 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.
Jer 33
7And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Jer 33
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah
15 In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: 'The LORD Is Our Righteousness.'
"The big laws are written on our hearts, so we would only desire to keep them."
I understand there to be one commandment, I sure like the way the Lord does math, Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
I was always bad with math, but He made it simple for me. I don't understand computers but they seem to have the same simple way, from what I have been told all a computer uses is 1 and 0. I ain't(am not) as smart as a computer but there is only ONE commandment as far as I can tell. But I know this to be a truth, "wow that means every day is holy." Molly
TWO Commandments.
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
--Mat 22
"like unto it" means the same. Lets keep it simple. It's ONE commandment.
Then you have to choose the first commandment because it is the first and great commandment.
37
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Quote from: MicahNo not the double portion geeshush.
what do you want me to explain then? Because you said can you explain 'that' to me.
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:14:29 AM
What interests me is the prophecy about it, the idea of bringing the twelve tribes back together [the northern ten tribes of Israel and the southern two tribes of Judah] and holding them in his hand as ONE STICK. That makes so much sense to me, but I'm not sure what it would look like.
:cloud9: What it would look like, is Moses's rod swallowing up that of the Egyptians (gentiles), making of the two, ONE STICK = rod of authority = Christ, the UPRIGHT Son in our midst becoming our covering (glorified body, corruption swallowed up of incorruption). Our hearts are circumcized (Jewish), our bodies are not (ritually speaking) = Gentiles. My :2c:
Quote from: Cardinal on December 20, 2011, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 07:14:29 AM
What interests me is the prophecy about it, the idea of bringing the twelve tribes back together [the northern ten tribes of Israel and the southern two tribes of Judah] and holding them in his hand as ONE STICK. That makes so much sense to me, but I'm not sure what it would look like.
:cloud9: What it would look like, is Moses's rod swallowing up that of the Egyptians (gentiles), making of the two, ONE STICK = rod of authority = Christ, the UPRIGHT Son in our midst becoming our covering (glorified body, corruption swallowed up of incorruption). Our hearts are circumcized (Jewish), our bodies are not (ritually speaking) = Gentiles. My :2c:
wow! That makes my heart leap.
ps Cardinal will you look at her website when you get a chance. I would like to know what you think of it.
:cloud9: yes
WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESSES?
When I read Revelation 11:4 and saw who these two witnesses are, I understood that there are 4 objects used to describe these two witnesses. The Angel tells John "these are the two candlesticks and the two olive trees."
And so 4 objects cannot be referring to two individuals.
Yahu'shua tells us the mystery of the "seven candlesticks" in Revelation 1:20. He says that they are the 7 churches. And so if we read the first 3 chapters of Revelation, we find that of those 7 only 2 churches were found to be overcomers: Smyrna & Philadelphia.
And so the 2 candlesticks = 2 churches
In Romans 11, we find out who the two olive trees are: Wild & Natural. In other words, Gentile & Jews.
And so we see that the TWO WITNESSES are TWO GROUPS of people coming together!
These two witnesses in Revelation 11:6 do the same exploits as Moses & Elijah. These two witnesses carry the same anointing of Moses & Elijah!
In other words, the Jews have the Torah (Law) and the Church has the Holy Spirit (Prophecy) and together these two anointings form what is called "The Double Portion Anointing!"
When the remnant who come out of Mystery Babylon Church and the remnant of the Jews who accept Messiah come together in Yahu'shua Messiah as ONE NEW MAN (Ephesians 2:15) and ONE STICK (Ezekiel 37:16-17 Ephraim & Judah), that corporate body of believers will be the remnant who carry the DOUBLE PORTION ANOINTING OF MOSES & ELIJAH!
These two witnesses get resurrected at the 7th Trumpet! That is the LAST TRUMPET in 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 where the saints are caught up and changed!
In other words, the two witnesses are the Overcoming churches and the Messianic Jews who form this ONE NEW man and they are the ones found worthy to recieve the FIRST RESURRECTION at the 7th TRUMPET or LAST TRUMPET, and Yahu'shua said in Matthew 24:31 that all of this happens WITH A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET (the 7th and last one)
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION!
http://www.doubleportioninheritance.com/fr_home.cfm
12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
--Eze 37
:cloud9: Or....tribulation, from tribulum, an instrument for threshing (removing the chaff) off wheat (the good Seed). The message of the 7th trump comes to remove the flesh off the churches (body of believers, whether Jew or Gentile after the flesh, they are one in Christ). Corporately, the double potion is the union of these two in Christ, male (Jewish) and his female (gentile).
Singularly, it's the union of a male and female, both of whom have had the flesh removed, their souls washed white as snow (soul is the garment of the Spirit). It's washed by the addition of manna (living revelation as pearls in appearance; I was shown it), as they become as the pots of manna, changed into His image. Remember they were told to gather a double portion of manna (enough for 2 days), in the 6th day.
The RE-union of male and female, spirit and soul, head and body, heart and rib, is what all of this has been about since the beginning. He calls this reunion, THE RESURRECTION, just as the RE-union of Head and Body, was the resurrection, 2000 years ago. My :2c:
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 05:11:43 AM
Another interesting thing:
Ephraim comes from the name Ephratah which is the other name for the town of Bethlehem.
Ephraim means double fruit.
Ephraim was the younger son of Joseph who received the lineage blessing instead of his older brother Manasseh because Jacob switched his hands before he gave the blessing, putting his right hand on Ephraim. The tribe of Joseph receives a double blessing,--double fruit- through the line of Ephraim [and Manasseh].
Many think Ephraim and Manasseh are today's Christians of the West, Europe and the USA.
14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
--Genesis 48
"a multitude of nations"
the fulness of the Gentiles
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Rom 11:25
Another one . . .Euphrates . .as in the river . . .that means fruitfulness as well. It's what dries up in preparation for the kings of the East to cross over on dry ground that Revelation speaks of. "We" are the kings of the East. Anything out of the east is connected to "Resurrection" (The rising of the SON) just as those bringing Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh to Jesus were "from the East". Jacob's wife was from the land of the East . . .that one is permeated all through Scripture.
The land of Nod is in the East.
Quote from: Nathan on December 20, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 05:11:43 AM
Another interesting thing:
Ephraim comes from the name Ephratah which is the other name for the town of Bethlehem.
Ephraim means double fruit.
Ephraim was the younger son of Joseph who received the lineage blessing instead of his older brother Manasseh because Jacob switched his hands before he gave the blessing, putting his right hand on Ephraim. The tribe of Joseph receives a double blessing,--double fruit- through the line of Ephraim [and Manasseh].
Many think Ephraim and Manasseh are today's Christians of the West, Europe and the USA.
14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
--Genesis 48
"a multitude of nations"
the fulness of the Gentiles
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Rom 11:25
Another one . . .Euphrates . .as in the river . . .that means fruitfulness as well. It's what dries up in preparation for the kings of the East to cross over on dry ground that Revelation speaks of. "We" are the kings of the East. Anything out of the east is connected to "Resurrection" (The rising of the SON) just as those bringing Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh to Jesus were "from the East". Jacob's wife was from the land of the East . . .that one is permeated all through Scripture.
That's cool. So if we are the kings bringing the 3 gifts, what is the spiritual significance of each of the gifts?
Who is this coming up from the wilderness
Like palm-trees of smoke,
Perfumed with myrrh and frankincense,
From every powder of the merchant?"
--Son 3:6
"Till the day doth break forth,
And the shadows have fled away,
I will get me unto the mountain of myrrh,
And unto the hill of frankincense."
--Son 4:6
:cloud9: Gold/Holy of Holies, Frankencense/Inner Court, and Myrrh (Outer Court).....
Life
Death
Redemption
Molly . . . what is making my heart leap right now is not that I have the answer to the questions you ask. But that you are asking the deeper questions!! That's how I read Scripture . . .I look for the symbolism in every thing mentioned and see where those patterns lead me. I'm sure each one of these elements speak to the nature of Jesus. Cardinal has already connected it to the tabernacle . . .the tabernacle is a type and shadow of Jesus himself. He's all through it, it's all connected to Him. I do know the gold symbolizes purity and highest honor. I'm not that familiar with the characteristics of the frankincense and Myrrh to see the connection, but your question is exactly the kind that leads us into the deeper truths that are relevant to our spirit nature so much more so than the tangible qualities that pertain to the literal stories.
wow.
myrrh-outer court-death, for ministering to dead bodies
frankincense-inner court-incense for worship, prayers of the saints
gold-Most Holy Place-so pure it doesn't have to be smelted, the king of the metals, on the outside and inside of the ark of the Covenant.
Gold as a metal doesn't react to things in the outside world. I have a gold doubloon which was under the sea for 3 or 400 years, and it as shiny and new looking as the day it was born. It is the 'unchanging metal.'
"Gold is extremely unreactive and doesn't tarnish like most other metals. Consequently, gold jewelery can survive almost unchanged for thousands of years."
1Lord Jehovah, the king will rejoice in your power, and in your salvation he will greatly leap for joy.
Thou hast given him his heart's desire, and hast not withholden the request of his lips. Selah.
For you meet him with the blessings of goodness: you set a crown of pure gold on his head.
--Psa 21
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 08:18:43 AM
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 08:01:17 AM
Quote from: jabcat on December 20, 2011, 07:53:31 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 20, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
I wonder why there is nothing taught about a double portion in the NT?
That's a really good question! I'm going to need to explore that a bit.
That's really sort of what the article I posted is getting at too, "what/who/when is being told what". :2c:
It is in the NT.
For one off the top of my head, you see in Revelation both Joseph and Ephraim listed amog the twelve tribes. [Dan is gone.]
Also, the transfiguration with Moses and Elijah standing on either side of Jesus.
Can you explain that to me?
A double portion is the inheritance of the firstborn son.. if there are four brothers, 3 get one fifth and the oldest gets two fifths- the double portion. In the NT we all have recieved the inheritance of the firstborn....partaking of the divine nature through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the son of God, this is not always so obvious- but it is tru nonetheless. In Galatians four Paul talks about a son, while he is a child(immature), is no different than a slave, being kept under tutors. We are tutored by trial and tribulation taylored to mature us into sons so that we can "recieve the keys".(You have need of perserverance so that after you have done the will of God you may recieve what was promised...Hebrews 10). In other words, he/she(the child, carnal believer, immature one) has the inheritance but cannot partake of it. Jesus gave Peter and the boys the "keys to the kingdom", so that they could walk as sons, in the ministry of reconciliation- because they had been "discipled". Elisha understood the double portion, as Elijah's "firstborn son"(mature disciple) he sought the double portion by "pressing in towards the mark of the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus"- not taking his eyes off Elijah until he ascended. We are to do the same, "from the time of John the baptist till now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence(zeal earnestness) and violent(zealous earnest) men take it by force". Fixing our eyes toward Jesus, we run with patience the race set before us, as sons, because fo sons it must be true, "Zeal for your house consumes me". So let us be consumed :o)
Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Phillipians 3:7-15
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Romans 8:16-19 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Quote from: Nathan on December 20, 2011, 11:05:37 PM
Molly . . . what is making my heart leap right now is not that I have the answer to the questions you ask. But that you are asking the deeper questions!! That's how I read Scripture . . .I look for the symbolism in every thing mentioned and see where those patterns lead me. I'm sure each one of these elements speak to the nature of Jesus. Cardinal has already connected it to the tabernacle . . .the tabernacle is a type and shadow of Jesus himself. He's all through it, it's all connected to Him. I do know the gold symbolizes purity and highest honor. I'm not that familiar with the characteristics of the frankincense and Myrrh to see the connection, but your question is exactly the kind that leads us into the deeper truths that are relevant to our spirit nature so much more so than the tangible qualities that pertain to the literal stories.
Thanks, Nathan!
Quote from: Molly on December 20, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
wow.
myrrh-outer court-death, for ministering to dead bodies
frankincense-inner court-incense for worship, prayers of the saints
gold-Most Holy Place-so pure it doesn't have to be smelted, the king of the metals, on the outside and inside of the ark of the Covenant.
Because the core of the message of Christ was/is one of resurrection, death is always a part of that message, but not death of men, but death of man in men. I see the myrrh symbolizing the death of Christ in the literal, it was speaking to what he was going to experience, but the frankincense, the "worship" is to the resurrection following the death . . .our death is to the old man in us so that the new man can take us to the ascended places where the spirit pours out on "all" our flesh . . .
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
An 8th C copy of a 2nd C document held at the Vatican has been translated, giving a fuller picture of the Magi.
The document states the Magi
were ancient astronomers/stargazers
they came from further away than thought--ancient China
the document states there were 'scores' of men who came to see the Christ child
they called themselves descendents of Seth, son of Adam
they were mystics who used silent prayer
they had passed down the prophecy from Seth that a star would signal that God had come to earth in human form.
It's all over the news today. Check it out.
Do you see what I see? [Christmas carol]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pGld28bJMw&feature=related
Imagination running a muck. :2c:
The Vatican staff are the best spin masters in the world.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 22, 2011, 06:04:19 AM
The Vatican staff are the best spin masters in the world.
.....and have been so for around 1500 years.
I don't think anyone is 'spinning' anything.
Some guy spent 3 years translating an ancient text from Syriac.
Our Bible does indeed talk about the Magi.
The question is--why would they travel so far to see a baby from another culture?
Imagine how difficult and dangerous that must have been.
They must have had a very good reason--and they tell us what it is.
We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
--Mat 2:2
But, that doesn't tell us who they are.
I meant the convenient timing of the release, at this season.
It's a great time to release it. So what?
The Christmas story always mentions the Magi.
Constantly teaching and encouraging generation after generation to look back at the flesh of Jesus producing nothing but a shoreline littered with pillars of salt.
If God intends to save someone in this age or to give them the truth or anything else, He will.
It's not up to us.
Quote from: Molly on December 22, 2011, 07:28:58 PM
If God intends to save someone in this age or to give them the truth or anything else, He will.
It's not up to us.
Is that a reply to this:
Constantly teaching and encouraging generation after generation to look back at the flesh of Jesus producing nothing but a shoreline littered with pillars of salt.
If so, I don't get the connection.
I've said everything I have to say about that except for this:
Matthew 11:27
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Remember Lot's wife!
Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.