The movie Hellbound

[ded2daworld]

Here is interesting info on the movie Hellbound - where a director asks christians about the
belief in hell - (all three views represented)I liked it -short article


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithforward/2012/08/talking-to-christians-about-hell-its-not-as-easy-as-youd-think/

[lomarah]

At that point they realize they are not only in hell but are speaking face to face with the devil.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YEP!!!!! I'm sure all of us who believe in UR have been there LOL. (And if you're one of the blessed, many times LOL.)  :laugh:

[sheila]

 :laugh: liked his 'tongue in cheek" too!!

[Lazarus Short]

I read the article, and noted this especially: 

"Furthermore, if you're as avid a Bible reader as you seem to be, surely you realize the Bible contains three sets of texts: those that seem to teach eternal torment, those that appear to teach annihilation and those that suggest all people will ultimately be reconciled to God."

That is what James Bruggeman (of Stone Kingdom Ministries) said in his newsletter years ago.  I never forgot it.  It is something we need to deal with here - or have we?

[VineBranch]

I found the article a gigantic example of self promotion.  It was about the writer, not the film.  I was not at all impressed by his callousness, and aggressiveness.

I specifically hated reading this:  "If you listen carefully at this point, you can hear weeping and gnashing of teeth. But that never stops me."  Really?  You think this is an act of kindness, and showing a loving God.  Or you think this is something which is okay to do to people you literally ambushed into listening to you?  You're not going to stop attacking simply because you hurt someone?  Really?  Nice Guy.

When people ask for direct answer his response is:  "Of course, I'm far too cagey to give a direct answer."  In my opinion what he is saying is something like ...'look at me, see how coy I am, as I promote myself and make myself look important, I'm too sophisticated for these bumpkins.'

Later on he says:  "I may be exaggerating things a tiny bit, but experience has shown me that too many Christians [sic, really that is what he said] have a strong emotional investment in a doctrine of hell they're unable to articulate, much less defend against rival interpretations."  Yet, he will attack them because they don't believe what he does.  They are God's kids, not your targets.  I think when people cram hell down someone's throat they are wrong in doing so.  I furthermore think those who would cram non-hell down someone's throat are equally wrong.  Our methods don't become right just because we think our message is right.

[Lazarus Short]

Thank you, VB, for that back-to-earth perspective.

[lomarah]

Chill VB, the dude was hilarious lol. Especially the line you quoted about the weeping and gnashing of teeth.   :LH:

[dajomaco]

When it comes to hell people just can't take it to heart.

1.   Now the large group of those who believed were of one heart and mind, and no one said that any of his possessions was his own, but instead they held everything in common.



I will put My laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
11 And each person will not teach his fellow citizen,[e]
and each his brother, saying, "Know the Lord,"
because they will all know Me,
from the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their wrongdoing,
and I will never again remember their sins.[f][g]

[VineBranch]

Chill VB, the dude was hilarious lol. Especially the line you quoted about the weeping and gnashing of teeth.   :LH:

I think making someone uncomfortable, and causing them grief, just to promote your movie is not a loving thing to do:  capitalism doesn't excuse bad manners, or justify meanness.  Nor does wanting your own private jet mean you can run roughshod over other peoples feelings.

That is just my opinion though.  I've seen lots of Christians beat each other up.  Kirk Cameron and Ray  Comfort's group seems to make it almost necessary to make others uncomfortable.  I guess it's a way of  softening them up so they won't resist having themselves rammed with the gospel.  I just think it sucks.  To me it's emotional abuse.

[lomarah]

Jesus made people uncomfortable all the time and much of the time it was extremely humorous (so much of it gets lost in translation/cultural differences). One of my favorite passages in the Bible is when Father is making fun of His people for worshipping idols. He's like, with one half of the log you burn it for firewood and with the other half you make an idol out of it and say this is Most High God LOL! (Very loose paraphrase lol.) Father and Christ have the most hilarious sense of humour and they poke fun at me allllll the time. It's never in a way that looks down on me, but always in a way that makes me laugh at myself. (Like the wooden idol example.)

I thought this guy had a really great sense of humour!

I would love to hear what Jesus would say to the religious of today. (He told Sheila back in her religious days that she had dragon's breath... now how's that for humorous lol!)

[VineBranch]

Jesus made people uncomfortable all the time and much of the time it was extremely humorous (so much of it gets lost in translation/cultural differences). One of my favorite passages in the Bible is when Father is making fun of His people for worshipping idols. He's like, with one half of the log you burn it for firewood and with the other half you make an idol out of it and say this is Most High God LOL! (Very loose paraphrase lol.) Father and Christ have the most hilarious sense of humour and they poke fun at me allllll the time. It's never in a way that looks down on me, but always in a way that makes me laugh at myself. (Like the wooden idol example.)

I thought this guy had a really great sense of humour!

I would love to hear what Jesus would say to the religious of today. (He told Sheila back in her religious days that she had dragon's breath... now how's that for humorous lol!)

I think he difference Lom, if I may be allowed to say so, is that God knows how to do it.  God shows me things which make me laugh at myself quite frequently.  I make fun of me with regularity.  I do not however, have the right to make others feel bad just to advance my own agenda.  God can do what He wants:  I think He is the greatest thing ever.

My position is this ... firstly

I didn't think the Mormons had the right to make you feel bad.  You even considered leaving your own home to avoid being there when they showed up.  You were made to feel anxious.  They did this for their own agenda:  I think they were wrong to put you in that position.  Surely you are not saying that now it is alright for others to be in a situation you found untenable?  I don't for a moment believe you are saying that it is okay that it be done to others, even though you didn't want it done to you:  are you?

... secondly

scripture says,,

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
(Tit 3:2)

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
(1Pe 3:15-16)

I doesn't say beat them over the head with it and make them feel bad so you can sell your movie; in fact it says the opposite.

That's all I'm saying.

[lomarah]

The mormons didn't make me feel anxious so much as frustrated lol. And they weren't humorous at all LOL, to the contrary they were calling me the devil... which is one of the reasons why I found this guy so funny. :) (And btw I had a good laugh about it later.) Definitely agree God is the One who knows when to use this type of humour. I don't know what this mans intentions are. I think he's funny, you don't lol. (If it makes you feel better I find many things humorous that thousands of others wouldn't... it drives my husband nuts sometimes.) :)

[marie glen]

I read the article, and noted this especially: 

"Furthermore, if you're as avid a Bible reader as you seem to be, surely you realize the Bible contains three sets of texts: those that seem to teach eternal torment, those that appear to teach annihilation and those that suggest all people will ultimately be reconciled to God."

That is what James Bruggeman (of Stone Kingdom Ministries) said in his newsletter years ago.  I never forgot it.  It is something we need to deal with here - or have we?

That's very interesting! I've never heard of that before, but I often find myself thinking there are at least two levels of things.. there's this life, the here and now, or that is this earthly existence and life as we presently know it.. the wicked will be cut off, judgement will come.. etc. (Or is that two levels right there? this life and the long day of review/'judgment' following the 2nd resurrection)... Then there is ultimate reality, which is UR, and everyone "believing" (who's not going to "believe" after being resurrected?) -- In other words, this is a sort of truth drama, showing good from evil, what works from what doesn't and simply cannot.. and for a drama, you have to have the 'good' guys andd the 'bad' guys (tho we know there's really only one who's GOOD, and the rest of us, all, fall far short)..
- Well, that's what I find myself thinking.. there's the reality of UR (UNIVERSAL reconciliation) but, there is also the reality of what succeeds (love) and what can only crash and perish in a self destructive puff of smoke..

[reFORMer]

Or is that two levels right there? this life and the long day of review/'judgment' following the 2nd resurrection)...

While I believe there will be a greatly increased birth rate in the Millennial Age, for our purposes it is enough to propose an estimate of the number of people born then based on the present rate of increase.  That, and all those born in the previous 6 thousand years are about 20 billion.

It is commonly thought that in The Last Judgement each person will stand before God as an individual while everybody else watches.  If each person has 10 minutes with Jesus it would take 7,624,641 years.  If we could tarry with Him for 1 hour it would take 45,797,846 years.  Assuming 75 years as an average lifespan, if it each person's life was replayed and the judging took an equal amount of time to transpire, we could be undergoing The Last Judgement for 3 trillion years.

Perhaps there is something wrong with this idea?

One could follow the idea for a moment longer to point out God may have nobody in Paradise or the lake of fire for a very long time if the common belief is considered.  Maybe He'll like it that way?  It wouldn't be the first time He changed His mind.  Of course this is dealing with popular traditions and not quite the truth.

[VineBranch]

The mormons didn't make me feel anxious so much as frustrated lol. And they weren't humorous at all LOL, to the contrary they were calling me the devil... which is one of the reasons why I found this guy so funny. :) (And btw I had a good laugh about it later.) Definitely agree God is the One who knows when to use this type of humour. I don't know what this mans intentions are. I think he's funny, you don't lol. (If it makes you feel better I find many things humorous that thousands of others wouldn't... it drives my husband nuts sometimes.) :)

It's probably just a sensitivity thing.  Some people think it's fun to shout 'jump' up at a depressed sucidal person on top of a building.  I have no idea how to even relate to them.  They think it's funny, I don't.

[VineBranch]

The mormons didn't make me feel anxious so much as frustrated lol.

Actually you said in one of the posts that you were angry:  "I am actually kind of mad right now, I feel like this is the enemy trying to get at my family. Aint gonna happen."  (Re: Book of Mormon: Reply #6)

Later on you said:  "I feel like I should've been able to share more with them but I guess it wasn't to be. After they basically called me Satan I knew there was no way they were going to listen to me anyhow LOL!!"  (Re: Book of Mormon: Reply #14)

Does this mean you have a sort of sympatico with the film maker, and that's why what he does is funny?  Is it that you like  to be seen as some sort of Devil's Advocate/obstacle course?  Is it an attention thing?  Is it a winning thing?  You're right, I have no idea.

[lomarah]

Have you ever been called Satan? Or have it been implied that you're working by the power of Satan? It's not exactly fun. But at the end of the day, rather than sob about it I go to God and He shows me the humour in it and He enables me to laugh. No, I don't find it fun to seek out being called evil.

And no I wouldn't encourage a depressed person to jump off a building... that's just cruel.

I find this guy funny... you don't... that's ok. Was just trying to get you to lighten up a bit... but it's not happening lol.

[eaglesway]

Or is that two levels right there? this life and the long day of review/'judgment' following the 2nd resurrection)...

While I believe there will be a greatly increased birth rate in the Millennial Age, for our purposes it is enough to propose an estimate of the number of people born then based on the present rate of increase.  That, and all those born in the previous 6 thousand years are about 20 billion.

It is commonly thought that in The Last Judgement each person will stand before God as an individual while everybody else watches.  If each person has 10 minutes with Jesus it would take 7,624,641 years.  If we could tarry with Him for 1 hour it would take 45,797,846 years.  Assuming 75 years as an average lifespan, if it each person's life was replayed and the judging took an equal amount of time to transpire, we could be undergoing The Last Judgement for 3 trillion years.

Perhaps there is something wrong with this idea?

One could follow the idea for a moment longer to point out God may have nobody in Paradise or the lake of fire for a very long time if the common belief is considered.  Maybe He'll like it that way?  It wouldn't be the first time He changed His mind.  Of course this is dealing with popular traditions and not quite the truth.

I think the Great White Throne happens outside of time.....not sure how tho :o). You kno how some people who have died saw their life pass before them? I had a friend who did. Maybe everyone, when they die, passes before the Great White Throne in the spirit into some kind of time suspended realm- like Sheol, or Paradise.  Maybe some into the lake of fire(rebels)? Maybe some into the presence of God(overcomers)? Maybe some to sleep in Paradise? So many possibilities- I can't wait to see it, it will be awesome in any case :o)

[ded2daworld]

Wow! I never expected my post to stir people up so much.
I looked at the thing as a commercial.
There are interesting commercials, funny commercials, commercials that make you think,
commercials that make you say, "That's right! With conviction"
Sometimes all that happens in the same commercial.
This wasn't one of those. Just as I read with interest what the common man or atheist
has to say about God or religion, I offered the post up for others to see the 3 points of view
ET/ EA/UR are all represented by scripture to some degree of interpretation and it was interesting to
me the reactions of people that have had a belief there whole life and never been questioned about it before.

[VineBranch]

Have you ever been called Satan? Or have it been implied that you're working by the power of Satan? It's not exactly fun. But at the end of the day, rather than sob about it I go to God and He shows me the humor in it and He enables me to laugh. No, I don't find it fun to seek out being called evil.

Yes I have.  There are pastors who have forbidden people to associate with me.  One fellow told me he was called to the front of the church to repent, because he was seen having coffee with me (I don't think it was my taste in coffee which was called into question).  Quite often I have been accused of doing Satan's work, or of being 'The Devil himself'.  I just don't wear that accusation as a badge of honor as he does.

And no I wouldn't encourage a depressed person to jump off a building... that's just cruel.

I didn't say you would.  Surely it's not cruel just because you say it is.  Some people think it's funny, and who are we to judge what is funny to others?  Lions/Christians, metaphorical lions//Christians ... it's all the same:  funny to some, not to others.

I find this guy funny... you don't... that's ok. Was just trying to get you to lighten up a bit... but it's not happening lol.

I don't find this guy funny... you do... that's ok. Was just trying to get you to take it a bit more seriously ... but it's not happening lol.

[lomarah]

 :goodone:

[VineBranch]

:goodone:

LOL  okay, no one can accuse me of not going for the cheap laugh.  Thanks for taking it tongue in cheek, the way it was intended.

[lomarah]

 :thumbsup:

[sheila]

    the definition is ironic humour/dry humour...it is not appreciated by all people..


    'irony' is...the person with the doctrine of et[doctrine of the devil/liar] thinks the person

  who is speaking truth and love/mercy of God..is the devil.

       I've always appreciated it...but know that some do not.

   sometimes some situations are so ludicrous and absurd,you have to laugh to keep

from crying.

[lomarah]

Yeah. That's something I've heard Card say quite a few times: got to laugh to keep from crying.  :HeartThrob: