Who is Satan?

[thinktank]

She means those in this age are influenced by demons and cannot do much about it. But once Christ is accepted we are no longer part of this kingdom but are part of heaven, citizens of heaven, priests of Christ, we go and preach the gospel and cast out demons from them who are opressed by the devil and many other things, such as praying thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Oh, I see....well, weren't we all before coming into His Kingdom?

[Molly]

:cloud9: I'm not following you, Molly.... :dontknow:

Long story short:  we are spiritually in a different age from the world?

That's why he says, they will hate you, they will persecute you--for my sake.

[Molly]

She means those in this age are influenced by demons and cannot do much about it. But once Christ is accepted we are no longer part of this kingdom but are part of heaven, citizens of heaven, priests of Christ, we go and preach the gospel and cast out demons from them who are opressed by the devil and many other things, such as praying thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

yeah. that, too. :goodpost:

[thinktank]

• (1)  If you would, please prove "satan" to be a "he"?
• (2)  If you would, please explain why Eve could see this "serpent" and talk to "him" and WE cannot?
• (3)  If you would, please note "DEMONS" in the Scriptures
• (4)  Where is found, the "command" to "cast out demons"?

Revelations 12:4, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

2 Corinthians 12:7-10

There is not even ONE Scripture which notes "satan" as a ..."being"... that I have found, could you also QUOTE even ONE for me?

Daniel 10:13, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

What kind of human "thought" "temptation" is so strong that it prevents a powerful figure called the son of man, who is Jesus, visiting Daniel, that it requires the warrior archangel Michael to fight this being. Michael the archangel is the most powerful military warrior in Gods arsenal, would a mere "thought" require this level of warfare?

How can a mere Earthly king withstand and prevent God himself from appearing to Daniel if this is talking about an Earthly king of Persia. Daniel is praying in the spirit and is dealing with "spiritual things".

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:10

Read the book of Job and Satan is before the throne of God, ACCUSING Job of his sins to God, the book of JOB is BC before Christ.
Now look at that verse, NOW IS COME SALVATION, FOR THE ACCUSER of our BRETHREN is CAST DOWN
When did Satan get cast down? The same time that SAlvation, strength and the kingdom of our God came upon the Earth. When was that?

I beheld Satan as lightening falleth from heaven
Jesus


Mark 1:39, "And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils."

Here he not only preached but also CAST OUT devils. The correct translation should be "demons".

When someone preaches you either believe/receive the word or you don't, when you have a demon you either ask for deliverance or you don't


Mark 16:15-18, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

The aposlte Paul, preached, he prayed in tongues, he got bitten by a snake and did not die, he laid hands on hakerchiefs and healed people via anointed transfer.

Didn't Jesus say

John 14:12, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Yet another verse that says Jesus went to his father, in fact if you believe that Jesus is upon the Earth it could be dangerous territory, for if Christ approached you and said, hey come into the desert, would you go? Jesus said, don't go into the desert, but look UP, because that's where Jesus is my friends. Christ within us is his spirit, the holy ghost. A good way to imagine the holy ghost is like a cup, who has his own personality, but can fill his cup with the spirit of Jesus and the father, to dwell withinus. Thats why the father seeks dwelling places for all of them, the Father, son and holy ghost. Father in heaven, Jesus resurected in heaven and the holy ghost upon the earth who is within us and is poured out on all flesh (Acts), so if the holy ghost be within you, also Christ and also the father.

When CHRIST is living in the LIFE... it is not some mythical "being" that has been "overcome"... rather it is our own "SELF" oriented WILL that "steps down" -- Gal 2:20 -- which "self will" JESUS did not ever give place to... as He always did the WILL of the Father -- John 5:19,30

So when we follow Him by submitting to the WORD, then we are no longer employing our own "will", we are employing the WILL and COMMAND of YHVH within our actions and words, as did JESUS...

No mythical being called "satan" has been dispensed... rather, it is our WILL  which is that which is dispensed, for it is the "WILL" of man that is ADVERSE to the COMMAND of the WORD, of YHVH!

It is the CARNAL "will" within the heart of man which is "DECEITFUL above ALL THINGS, and desparately WICKED" -- Jer 17:9 -- and which operates in the flesh, succumbing to the desires of the flesh -- Rom 8:14-18 -- that is indeed that which is brought into submission by the WORD/CHRIST, not some imagined fairy tale of a "red guy" with a "pitchfork" which has charge of a mythical "kingdom" called "hell"... :mnah:

What you are saying is only one side of the coin  :2c: the other half is that we battle not against flesh and blood but [battle]principalities and powers in heavanly places

Religious theologies have taken the sin in the Garden, and have erected the "devil made me do it" / "pass the buck" --- excuses for CARNAL decisions made from "promptings" of the FLESH via the "WILL" of SELF, which TRANSGRESSES that which has been COMMANDED by the SPIRIT of YHVH -- Gen 2:17

Some do blame the devil and others blame God :winkgrin: some are wrong some are right, take this scripture for example

Acts 16:18

Matthew 15:22, "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."

If you look up the phrase 'vexed with a devil' in the NT Greek, we find the word daimonizomai, which is the same word used behind the phrase 'possessed with a devil'. This Greek word has several meanings. It can mean a person is under the demon's power, harassed, troubled, tormented by evil spirits or simply to have an unclean spirit.

Matthew 12:22

One can observe Eve's experience, and see that ALL the temptations she succumbed to were fallen to the curious promptings of her own flesh -- Gen 2:6 --

(1) lust of the eye = [the fruit was pleasant to the EYES]  
(2) lust of the flesh = [the fruit was good for FOOD]
(3) Accompanied by the youthful/childish and DOUBTFILLED notion that death would not overcome her "life" -- pride of life = [assuming in eating the fruit, she would NOT surely DIE] --

So under all these SELF oriented and DECEITFUL deductions of her OWN HEART, she indeed ate of the tree which contained this mysterious "knowledge" which she did not possess --->

1 John 2:16 --- These 3 principles are they which CHRIST overcame... for they are the comprising of "the WORLD", and are NOT "of the Father"...

This process is the SAME working process of SIN has occured in everyone, ever since...  :dontknow:  There is no "personage" that appears to a man, when a beautiful woman walks before him, that "whispers unto him" -- "hey, check out that chick" -- this is a manifestation of the inherent DECEIT which prevails in the HEART of men (and women)... which is NATURALLY FIRST -- 1 Cor 15:46 -- and is unconverted, unrevealed, uninspired, and completely WITHIN THE FLESH...  :sigh:

Man has been ceaselessly obsessed since the very beginning of time, and will be consumed of that obsession until the very end... which is the "gaining of knowledge" he/she does not yet have...  :dontknow:

It was NOT via the promptings of a mythical IMMENSELY POWERFUL talking "snake"... which has NEVER BEEN SEEN AGAIN!!!  

Christ saw the devil in the wilderness, the idea of throw youself over the hill, doesn't sound like a temptation to suicide, but rather about, trying to prove to Satan that, he is the son of God and that the father does indeed love him. If YE be the son of God turn these stones to bread, again satan trying to get Christ to prove to the devil that he really is the son of God by doing works, not for the fathers glory but doing works for the devil's sake.

I give you all of these kingdoms. Seems a small kingdom, either Satan is talking about a power in Israel which he claimed he was god of, or that he in spirit planted himself in some spiritual place where all the world could be seen, maybe Satans kingdom here is mystery babylon, in that case it would only require Israel, but it seems more likely that all the kingdoms are indeed the whole world.

Rather it was Eve's own thoughts, that were indeed, NOT found to be IN THE CAPTIVITY of CHRIST/Command of the WORD -- 2 Cor 10:5 -- which "captivity" in turn, is IN SUBMISSION to YHVH at all times -- John 8:29

JESUS did not ever succumb to His own "will", for He always DID the will of YHVH -- Matt 4:4

And when the promptings of His own "will"/flesh --- tempted Him to seek otherwise, ...He wisely remained submitted unto the WILL of YHVH unto death... dispensing the proposal of His own "will" (which indeed was the "tempter") -- and had which prompted Him to ask that the cup might pass -- Luke 22:42 -- the cup did NOT pass... so the "will" of CHRIST which he made known, was not manifest... rather the WILL of YHVH indeed was manifest...

...willieH  :cloud9:

The temptation to do self is a constantly present thing, but in the wilderness experience the devil left Christ for a while.

The temptation of the flesh is to kill/harm someone who annoys you, but the temptation of the devil is to kill that same person, even when they have stopped doing that "annoying" thing and are a thousand miles away.

The temptation of the flesh is to eat that delicious cream pie, that smells good in the bakery, the temptation of the demons is to go and buy the whole bakery and eat the whole lot, no one else included.

The temptation of the flesh is to hit someone in revenge, the temptation of the demons is to torture that person.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: I'm not following you, Molly.... :dontknow:

Long story short:  we are spiritually in a different age from the world?

That's why he says, they will hate you, they will persecute you--for my sake.

:cloud9: Yes....we are entering into His rest fully......our spirit/Joshua went "ahead", it's the day of the Lord which is SPIRIT, and there is no time in the Spirit, it's always "now".

He is the anchor of our SOUL, He already went ahead into that which is beyond the veil. That means the soul has to follow, one way or another, now or later. Blessings...

[Molly]

5which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

--Eph 3



Here we have something that is revealed to the apostles and prophets that has been kept hidden from men of other ages--including this one.



6This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

--Eph 3



This mystery is being revealed to the Gentiles now for a purpose.



8To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, 10so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.

--Eph 3



It is the church that will make God's purpose known to the rulers and authorities in heavenly places.  This is a very deep concept.  Something very profound is going on here.  We are being used by God to reveal his mysteries to those mentioned in Eph 6--

.. the rulers,  the authorities,  the cosmic powers over this present darkness,  the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. [Eph 6]



..that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

--Eph 3



"fulness"

G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.



Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[Molly]

28 And Peter said, 'Lo, we left all, and did follow thee;' 29 and he said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that there is not one who left house, or parents, or brothers, or wife, or children, for the sake of the reign of God, 30 who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the coming age, life age-during.'

--Luke 18



John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.




John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.



[he has] "crossed over" [from death to life]

G3327
μεταβαίνω
metabainō
met-ab-ah'ee-no
From G3326 and the base of G939; to change place: - depart, go, pass, remove.




So we are living in a different place/ age.



Psalm 15
1Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?

2He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.



Psa 87

5And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

6The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.

[Molly]

1 Corinthians 4

1 So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God.

    2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful.

    3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.

    4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

    5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

    6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, Do not go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

    7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

    8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have become kings— and that without us! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you!

    9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men.

    10 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honoured, we are dishonoured!

    11 To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless.

    12 We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

    13 when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

    14 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children.

    15 Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

    16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

    17 For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

    18 Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you.

    19 But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have.

    20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.

[micah7:9]

satan likes it when we don't recognize that he exists, you cannot fight someone that you don't see, Christ gave us power over this being for a reason, to go and preach the gospel and casting out demons being just one of the works commanded to do in Jesus name.

• (1)  If you would, please prove "satan" to be a "he"?
• (2)  If you would, please explain why Eve could see this "serpent" and talk to "him" and WE cannot?
• (3)  If you would, please note "DEMONS" in the Scriptures
• (4)  Where is found, the "command" to "cast out demons"?

There is not even ONE Scripture which notes "satan" as a ..."being"... that I have found, could you also QUOTE even ONE for me?

When CHRIST is living in the LIFE... it is not some mythical "being" that has been "overcome"... rather it is our own "SELF" oriented WILL that "steps down" -- Gal 2:20 -- which "self will" JESUS did not ever give place to... as He always did the WILL of the Father -- John 5:19,30

So when we follow Him by submitting to the WORD, then we are no longer employing our own "will", we are employing the WILL and COMMAND of YHVH within our actions and words, as did JESUS...

No mythical being called "satan" has been dispensed... rather, it is our WILL  which is that which is dispensed, for it is the "WILL" of man that is ADVERSE to the COMMAND of the WORD, of YHVH!

It is the CARNAL "will" within the heart of man which is "DECEITFUL above ALL THINGS, and desparately WICKED" -- Jer 17:9 -- and which operates in the flesh, succumbing to the desires of the flesh -- Rom 8:14-18 -- that is indeed that which is brought into submission by the WORD/CHRIST, not some imagined fairy tale of a "red guy" with a "pitchfork" which has charge of a mythical "kingdom" called "hell"... :mnah:

Religious theologies have taken the sin in the Garden, and have erected the "devil made me do it" / "pass the buck" --- excuses for CARNAL decisions made from "promptings" of the FLESH via the "WILL" of SELF, which TRANSGRESSES that which has been COMMANDED by the SPIRIT of YHVH -- Gen 2:17

One can observe Eve's experience, and see that ALL the temptations she succumbed to were fallen to the curious promptings of her own flesh -- Gen 2:6 --

(1) lust of the eye = [the fruit was pleasant to the EYES] 
(2) lust of the flesh = [the fruit was good for FOOD]
(3) Accompanied by the youthful/childish and DOUBTFILLED notion that death would not overcome her "life" -- pride of life = [assuming in eating the fruit, she would NOT surely DIE] --

So under all these SELF oriented and DECEITFUL deductions of her OWN HEART, she indeed ate of the tree which contained this mysterious "knowledge" which she did not possess --->

1 John 2:16 --- These 3 principles are they which CHRIST overcame... for they are the comprising of "the WORLD", and are NOT "of the Father"...

This process is the SAME working process of SIN has occured in everyone, ever since...  :dontknow:  There is no "personage" that appears to a man, when a beautiful woman walks before him, that "whispers unto him" -- "hey, check out that chick" -- this is a manifestation of the inherent DECEIT which prevails in the HEART of men (and women)... which is NATURALLY FIRST -- 1 Cor 15:46 -- and is unconverted, unrevealed, uninspired, and completely WITHIN THE FLESH...  :sigh:

Man has been ceaselessly obsessed since the very beginning of time, and will be consumed of that obsession until the very end... which is the "gaining of knowledge" he/she does not yet have...  :dontknow:

It was NOT via the promptings of a mythical IMMENSELY POWERFUL talking "snake"... which has NEVER BEEN SEEN AGAIN!!!   

Rather it was Eve's own thoughts, that were indeed, NOT found to be IN THE CAPTIVITY of CHRIST/Command of the WORD -- 2 Cor 10:5 -- which "captivity" in turn, is IN SUBMISSION to YHVH at all times -- John 8:29

JESUS did not ever succumb to His own "will", for He always DID the will of YHVH -- Matt 4:4

And when the promptings of His own "will"/flesh --- tempted Him to seek otherwise, ...He wisely remained submitted unto the WILL of YHVH unto death... dispensing the proposal of His own "will" (which indeed was the "tempter") -- and had which prompted Him to ask that the cup might pass -- Luke 22:42 -- the cup did NOT pass... so the "will" of CHRIST which he made known, was not manifest... rather the WILL of YHVH indeed was manifest...

...willieH  :cloud9:

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

willieH: Hi Molly... :hithere:

Satan is no part of Jesus even in his human state.

I think it is your observation/belief, of what "satan" IS... that forms the essence of this statement... and it avoids the fact that ADVERSITY did in fact approach CHRIST, and DID tempt Him (AS -- IT does us), while He lived within the FLESH... as has IT appeared to, and in ALL men, ...amongst which He is numbered.

He was TEMPTED ...as are we -- Heb 4:15 -- I, personally, have never ONCE, had any "being" or "talking snake" ...called "satan" ever approach me, and attempt to ensnare me in sin. :mnah:

As do many -- even most, ...you [presently] believe "satan" to be a "personage or being"... which is NOT what "satan" IS...

"satan" is simply the Hebrew word which describes, that which is ADVERSARY or ADVERSE to holiness, and to the COMMAND of YHVH...  It is a principality/power that must be overcome within us... not a victory over an external, and IMMENSELY POWERFUL, OMNIPRESENT, "fallen angel"... which is invisible and inaudible to us... :mnah:

The Apostle Paul notes his own personal battle to be with his FLESH, not with a "being" called "satan" -- Rom 8 -- "satan" is not even mentioned in this entire personal confessional of Paul... rather, the FLESH is that which the SPIRIT (within us) does battle, not some theologically/religiously invented external "being"...

That JESUS expressed the desire that the "cup pass" and then in conjunction, insisted upon the WILL of YHVH to be done (and in manifestation,  the "cup" did not "pass") --- displays that the desire of JESUS that the "cup pass" -- which DID NOT take place, was indeed ADVERSE to the actual manifestation of the WILL of YHVH... which DID take place.

That does not mean that JESUS purposed conscious adversity to YHVH... it means that the flesh in which He resided, He DID NOT KNOW that the possibility was or was not available for the "cup to pass"... and therefore asked it to be considered, yet firmly stated that if this "possibility" was not in line with the WILL of YHVH, that it be dispensed of.

Though CHRIST did not purpose adversity... does not remove the fact that the request He made WAS ADVERSE to the WILL of YHVH, and was dispensed of accordingly... also, per His request...

Jesus tells us that satan has no part of him.

How can satan cast out satan?

John 14:30 (King James Version)

30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

"satan" cannot cast out "satan", for "satan" is not sentient.  Man, via submission to the WORD and WILL of God, casts out "satan"...

ADVERSITY did not appear in the life and work of CHRIST, however... It did approach Him and His mind... as His flesh, in which is found the proposing of the adversity of SIN, also ...proposed IT [adversity] to Him...

As CHRIST overcame the prompting desires of His flesh... He displayed that though He was IN sinful flesh, IT had no power over Him, neither would IT have "part" in His doings.

In Mat 4:10 Jesus tells satan to "Go away."    Is he telling a part of himself to leave?

Let me say this... I had surgery... and due to deep distress within it while in recovery, I vocally instructed the PAIN to "go away"... shall indeed my "pain", be considered a "being", on the basis that I instructed IT to "go away"?   

Also, CHRIST specifically ADDRESSED Peter as "satan"... if we are observing within your perspective, then CHRIST was speaking the VERY SAME STATEMENT as He did in -- Matt 4:10 -- to His CHOSEN Apostle upon which He also notes He would "build His church"! -- Mark 8:33 

Let's face it Molly... Though you are welcome to believe what you like, ...Peter was not and IS NOT "satan", ...rather, that which CHRIST in both these instances was addressing, was that ADVERSE information and suggestion, depart from Him.

JESUS is speaking in terms of information made available to Him... In Matt 4:10 -- CHRIST is directing the THOUGHT of adversity to "go away"... He is not saying that adversity cannot approach Him... (which it did)... and give Him opportunity to succumb to it...

No.  Satan is real, he has a kingdom here on earth, and only the light of Christ casts him out.

As I said, in my opening comment to you... this stated perception is the foundation for what you believe concerning WHAT "satan" ...is... and is that which is subject to question.  :dontknow:

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

The "ruler" of this world is the ADVERSITY present in man, which transgresses the COMMAND of God... MEN rule this world, not an imaginary, invisible, inaudible, omnipresent evil "being", which men in their demented state have invented to blame, for their own obstinate and self imposed, indescretions... which have produced the myriad sorrows that we find documented in history, and which are availing themselves in the present, and which are also, unfortunately...  :sigh: ...yet to come... :pitiful:

JESUS dispensed of ADVERSITY concerning the ultimate destiny of MAN, within the manifestation of OBEDIENCE to the COMMAND and WILL of YHVH, within His life, thereby "casting it out"... and thereby positioning Himself as the past, present and future, JUDGE of ADVERSITY, for He did not partake in IT...

...willieH  :cloud9:

Again  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Molly]

14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

--2 Cor 6



"Belial"

G955
Βελίαλ
Belial
bel-ee'-al
Of Hebrew origin [H1100]; worthlessness; Belial, as an epithet of Satan: - Belial.

[thinktank]

Deuteronomy 7:26, "Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing."


Revelations 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

The city falls and becomes polluted with demons, unclean spirits. I think falls here means fallen from grace and the city becomes a whoreish city.

[peacemaker]

That which exalts itself will be lowered and that lowered shall
be raised higher, as the field falls gently to the river of life.

"The tower falls, under the weight of corruption."

peacemaker

[Nathan]

Willie, once again, I find myself totally blessed by your words.  You not only have great vision of kingdom matters, but you also have the gift of explaining them to others with great clarity and accuracy.  I found it all quite humbling as I read it.

Awesome post.

[Universalist Catholic]

You got good points about Satan being our carnal nature.  But I do believe that there is an actual being as Satan, and there are fallen angels.  However I do believe the churches give Satan too much power that he has become a belief as repulsive as hell.  In todays church system, people actually believe Satan has the ability to steal ones soul and have them dragged into hell.  But yes, thats a lie.  However I wouldnt go as far as to underestimate the Demons.  Ive had some nasty trouble before with them, and they are pretty evil. 

[peacemaker]

You got good points about Satan being our carnal nature.  But I do believe that there is an actual being as Satan, and there are fallen angels.  However I do believe the churches give Satan too much power that he has become a belief as repulsive as hell.  In todays church system, people actually believe Satan has the ability to steal ones soul and have them dragged into hell.  But yes, thats a lie.  However I wouldnt go as far as to underestimate the Demons.  Ive had some nasty trouble before with them, and they are pretty evil.

There is no indication that there was ever a being called Satan, working through the minds of men. Remember Jesus said,
"You would have no power at all against me, except it were given you from above."

And consider this: "The Scribes and Pharisees tried hard that they might find an accusation against Jesus."
Pilate even questioned them, "What accusation do you bring against this man?"

Satan or a devil are merely principles that result in active resistance or contentiousness through an unrighteous disposition of false accusations and opposition.

peacemaker

[Lefein]

Peacemaker; The Book of Job?

Job 1:6-9 in Original Hebrew, Literal Translation, Lefeinian Rendering, and King James Version, respectively.

U'iei e'ium u'ibau bni e'aleim l'ethitzb ol-IEUE u'ibua gm e'shtn b'thuk'm :

And'he-was the'day and they-are-coming sons-of the'Elohim to'to-station-themselves-of on Yahweh and'he-is-coming moreover the'adversary in'midst-of-them

And there was a day when the sons of Elohim stationed themselves before Yahweh and Satan came also in the midst of them.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

---

u'iamr IEUE al-e'shtn m'ain thba u'ion e'shtn ath-IEUE u'iamr m'shut b'artz u'm'ethelk b'e :

And'he-is-saying Yahweh to the'adversary from'where you-are-coming?  and'he-is-answering the-adversary >> Yahweh and'he-is-saying from'to-go-to-and-fro-of in'the'earth and'from'to-walk-of in'her.

And Yahweh said to Satan, from where came you?  And Satan answered Yahweh saying, From going to and fro in the Earth, and walking in it.

And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

---

U'iamr IEUE al-e'shtn e'shmth lb'k ol-obdi aiub ki ain km'eu b'artz aish thm u'ishr ira aleim u'sr m'ro :

And'he-is-saying Yahweh to the'adversary you-placed heart-of-you on servant-of-me Job? that there-is-no like'him in'the'earth man flawless and'upright fearing-of Elohim and'withdrawing from'evil.

And Yahweh said to Satan, have you put your thought on my servant Job?  That there is none like him in the Earth, a flawless and upright man, fearing God and withdrawing from evil?

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

---

U'ion e'shtn ath-IEUE u'iamr e'chnm ira aiub aleim :

And'he-is-answering the'adversary >> Yahweh and'he-is-saying ?'gratuitously he-fears Job Elohim

And Satan answered Yahweh saying, does Job gratuitously fear Elohim?

Note: Gratuitous - given without expecting to recieve in return.

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

___ ___ ___

Ieue = Yahweh, That I AM

Shtn = Shatan = Satan, The Adversary

Is Satan but a principle?  Is Yahweh then but a principle?  No.

[peacemaker]

The Book of Job?

The knowledge of men run to and fro throughout the whole earth, and the eyes of the SPIRIT run to and fro throughout the whole earth (2 Chronicles 16:9) beholding the evil and the good (Proverbs 15:3), as well.

Job 1:6-8 (King James Version)

Now, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered the servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth; a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

This story did not take place in another realm but was confined to the limitations of men on earth as opposed to heaven. Men have written their versions of stories predicated on what they believe, altering and giving new meaning to words, as the voice of the sea casts its spell; holding the souls of men in its net. The Hebrew term for Satan merely describes an adversarial role, and an accuser (devil) is known for his unrighteous disposition. You will meet many adversities in this life. Not everything is as it appears, you may want to consider a court case in which there is; a victim (children), an adversary (not "the" adversary) or accuser (in opposition to the truth), a defendant (Job), a Magistrate (judge), and a King, as "the" totality of any experience must be real, not predicated on false beliefs.

Now, there was a day when the sons of the King came to present themselves before the Magistrate, and the accuser also was among them. And the Judge said to the accuser, "From where to you come?" The adversary of Job said, "From walking to and fro, back and forth, throughout the world." And the Magistrate said to the accuser, "Have you considered this servant, that there is none like him in all the earth; a perfect and upright man, one that gives reverence to the King, and abstains from evil?"

"Truth just might be something, not before realized."

[Lefein]

It would seem to me, that plainly read God is talking to a person who talks back.  Not a metaphor.

It is very silly to build up theologies that say our enemy is just a philosophical train of thought, or ideas, represented by a symbolic person that God addresses at various times.  It is even sillier to do said building up - while at the same time saying that All in All, and Saviour of All Men, are to be plain read as being literally all.  If Satan is a philosophical idea, and not a person despite plain read scripture, then why should All not be a philosophical idea, a metaphor for "all, but not all, just some from every kind" that so many ET'ers try to say in the face of plain read scripture?

You have to be careful to be in balance, and not go from one extreme to the other.

Satan isn't this demi-god who can pull the souls of men into Hell, and send forth an army to batter the very gates of Heaven in a mighty struggle between Heaven and Hell that leads the light to faint.  IE: Satan isn't as powerful as Tradition says.

But we best not go to the other side of error, and say that Satan is a metaphor.

Satan is an agent of rebellious expression, a person who was the catalyst for man's crimes, the father of lies, and the prosecutor.  Even in your example the accuser before the magistrate is a person, albeit unnamed. 

Metaphors don't accuse, The Holy Spirit is a person and convicts, so too is our condemner.  Is the Holy Spirit but a metaphor?  No.

[micah7:9]

Psa 82:6  I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7  Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.

"And'he-was the'day and they-are-coming sons-of the'Elohim "

Its very plain to me that we are "gods=elohim," I reason that they were human [men mankind] who came "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." 

And where in the Bible do you find this statement "The Holy Spirit is a person " Lefein?
Where does it say the Holy Spirit is a person?

As far as "who" is the adversary [satan].....at this point I really have not come to that knowledge to give myself the anwer.
I do know the adversary is no push over and that it is Chirst in me that is overcoming the enemy, that He is my only weapon,
the mind of Christ.

[jabcat]

AFAIK, I've never weighed in on these satan discussions.  But interestingly, I read the following just this morning from John 8;

They responded and said to Him, "Abraham is our father."  Yesu responded to them.  ..."You are doing the works of your father."  ...Yesus said to them, "If God was your Father, you would be loving Me;  ... Why don't you know My speech?  It is because you can't hear My Word. 

You are from your father, the Adversary [Satan], and you are continually wanting to do the desires of your father.  He was a killer of humans from the beginning, and didn't keep standing in the Truth, because Truth isn't in him.  When he speaks a lie, he is speaking from his own things, because he is a liar, and the father of it.

I truly don't believe this is talking about just a thought process, etc.  In this most literal translation to the Koine Greek (The Christian Bible) my thoughts would not be properly translated as 'he'.  I believe satan is a tool, under the authority of God, and can only do as he is allowed - but a being, just the same.

[Lefein]

Amen Jabcat.  :thumbsup:

[Lefein]

Touching on the subject of The Holy Spirit being a person;

All in KJV

Acts 13:2:
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Romans 8:26:
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

John 15:26:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts 16:5-7
And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8:1-17

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He sounds like a person to me, as far as plain-read scripture goes.  Unless God is being decietful and means something totally left field of what he's showing us in the written word.

Jesus is a person, Yahweh is a person...why should The Holy Spirit not be a person?

[micah7:9]

Then "his" beginning was when?  Scripture an verse.
Col 1:16  for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
Col 1:17  and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.

Gen 4:8  And Cain told Abel his brother. And it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Where did Cain go after Nod and after Cain concieved Enoch?