Who is Satan?

[Molly]

Satan was [equal or] higher in the celestial hierarchy than the archangel Michael.


9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

--Jude 1

I is here where I lost the post "Who is satan."

If we can't agree who Jesus is, it's going to be hard to agree who Satan is.  I think we should go back to parallel play lol.

Satan is the god of this age.

[Lefein]

"chief-messenger" in the greek.

[micah7:9]

Ill stick top the 66  books.

well, then you also have to acknowledge the archangel Gabriel at least.

The archangels stand in the presence of God.


Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Is Gabriel an archangel?

This text calls him an angel.

What does arch mean?  :dontknow:

Is Gabriel an archangel? No.
What does arch mean?  :dontknow: I would suggest "first" or foremost."

[thinktank]

Zechariah 3:2   

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

sounds like Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16   

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The lord speaks, with the voice of the archangel?

Revelation 4:1   
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


It is God who speaks life into us, so why does thessolonians above talk about needing Michael and also Jesus. For in rev 4:1 a trumpet is heard, but it is only Jesus, not Jesus and michael. So what is michaels role in thesolonians? PErhaps he is an accomplice :dontknow:


Also only one archangel? bit suspicious.

One thought though if michael is Jesus, it does not change him into a mere angel, it simply means that he was regarded as the chief messanger sent into Earth to reveal the father, but maintains his God status, the first and the last.

micah might have something

hmm...Further study

[Lefein]

I'd heard it said this way;

Michael is the Prime Minister, Jesus is the King.

[micah7:9]

Michael is a name used elsewhere in the Bible, for humans too.  They are not Jesus.

Yes, the name Michael is used many times (15)..13 in the OT 3 of those times in Daniel; once in Jude and once in Rev.
But those times prior to Daniel I dont believe fall into the discussion unless you want to bring them in.

[thinktank]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

[micah7:9]

Zechariah 3:2   

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

sounds like Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16   

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The lord speaks, with the voice of the archangel?

Revelation 4:1   
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


It is God who speaks life into us, so why does thessolonians above talk about needing Michael and also Jesus. For in rev 4:1 a trumpet is heard, but it is only Jesus, not Jesus and michael. So what is michaels role in thesolonians? PErhaps he is an accomplice :dontknow:


Also only one archangel? bit suspicious.

micah might have something

hmm...Further study

"with the voice of the archangel"  Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
Voice = phone (G5456)  through the idea of disclosure.

[micah7:9]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

[Molly]

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

[Molly]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[micah7:9]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

[Beloved Servant]

What does the name Michael mean?
Is Jesus not the greatest messenger of all?

[micah7:9]

What does the name Michael mean?
Is Jesus not the greatest messenger of all?

[Molly]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

Are you willing to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

[micah7:9]

What does the name Michael mean?
Is Jesus not the greatest messenger of all?

What does the name Michael mean? Who is like God.

Is Jesus not the greatest messenger of all? Yes

[Lefein]

I think we might come to a better conclusion if we asked some simple questions, and lay out some facts/examples.

Is Michael an angel?  (Of the species, or family that is what ever angels are)

Is Jesus an angel? (Of the species, or family that is what ever angels are)

God can appear as he wishes to, man, angel, fiery pillar, burning bush, dove, still whisper in our hearts (sound), rolling thunder (sound)...etc.

Hence, The Angel of The Lord is God appearing as an angel.  The example here is, that God while appearing in the form of an angel, is not an Angel, in the same manner that God appearing as a burning bush, doesn't make him a plant.  And so I am asking if Jesus, and Michael are Angels. 

If Jesus is not an Angel, and Michael is an Angel, Jesus cannot be Michael (identity wise), if Michael is not an Angel...what is he?  If Jesus is an Angel, well...the only thing I can say to that is "prove it".

[micah7:9]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

Are you willing to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Yes. Did you feel I had doubts?

[Molly]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

Are you willing to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Yes. Did you feel I had doubts?

So you think an angel is the Lord?

[Molly]

If Jesus is not an Angel, and Michael is an Angel, Jesus cannot be Michael (identity wise), if Michael is not an Angel...what is he?  If Jesus is an Angel, well...the only thing I can say to that is "prove it".

Jesus is given many names, but we are always told what those names and titles are--Emanuel, the Word, Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, Son of man,  Son of God.

If Jesus were Michael, we would have been told that, but the Bible specifically makes a differentiation between the Son and the angels.

Unfortunately , without the book of Enoch and the book of Tobit, a lot of information about the angels is lost to us.

[micah7:9]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

Are you willing to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Yes. Did you feel I had doubts?

So you think an angel is the Lord?

Please Molly just what are you trying prove.? Angel= messenger,Archangel= foremost angel, Michael= who is like God.
Jesus= Joshua-Jehovah saved Lord= Jehovah - self exsitent one

[micah7:9]

If Jesus is not an Angel, and Michael is an Angel, Jesus cannot be Michael (identity wise), if Michael is not an Angel...what is he?  If Jesus is an Angel, well...the only thing I can say to that is "prove it".

Jesus is given many names, but we are always told what those names and titles are--Emanuel, the Word, Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, Son of man,  Son of God.

If Jesus were Michael, we would have been told that, but the Bible specifically makes a differentiation between the Son and the angels.

Unfortunately , without the book of Enoch and the book of Tobit, a lot of information about the angels is lost to us.

I think you need to stay out of them books Molly.

[thinktank]

I think we might come to a better conclusion if we asked some simple questions, and lay out some facts/examples.

Is Michael an angel?  (Of the species, or family that is what ever angels are)

Is Jesus an angel? (Of the species, or family that is what ever angels are)

God can appear as he wishes to, man, angel, fiery pillar, burning bush, dove, still whisper in our hearts (sound), rolling thunder (sound)...etc.

Hence, The Angel of The Lord is God appearing as an angel.  The example here is, that God while appearing in the form of an angel, is not an Angel, in the same manner that God appearing as a burning bush, doesn't make him a plant.  And so I am asking if Jesus, and Michael are Angels. 

If Jesus is not an Angel, and Michael is an Angel, Jesus cannot be Michael (identity wise), if Michael is not an Angel...what is he?  If Jesus is an Angel, well...the only thing I can say to that is "prove it".

Jesus is not of the species described as angels

Hebrews 1:6 
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


But the term archangel can mean, he is the leader of the angels, hence arch angel. IT doesn't mean he is an angel.

Whoever michael is he has leadership and authority over all of Gods angels in rev 12
Michael and his angels fought.

I think a good bet is go find the hebrew word for michael, and find out if it means anything.
:2c:

[Molly]

If Jesus is not an Angel, and Michael is an Angel, Jesus cannot be Michael (identity wise), if Michael is not an Angel...what is he?  If Jesus is an Angel, well...the only thing I can say to that is "prove it".

Jesus is given many names, but we are always told what those names and titles are--Emanuel, the Word, Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, Son of man,  Son of God.

If Jesus were Michael, we would have been told that, but the Bible specifically makes a differentiation between the Son and the angels.

Unfortunately , without the book of Enoch and the book of Tobit, a lot of information about the angels is lost to us.

I think you need to stay out of them books Molly.

I'm not in those books.  My own Buble tells me that Gabriel stands in the presence of God.  Gabriel was sent to announce the birth of the Lord Jesus, so that makes him pretty importantant as angels go.  My own Bible tells me that Micahel dared not defame Satan, but the Lord Jesus crushes the head of Satan.   My own Bible says that all the angels of God were commanded to worship the baby Jesus and that would include the archangel Michael.

Here are the angels carrying out that command:

13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
--Luke 2



6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
--Heb 1

[Molly]

Do you have any other scriptures micah which point or possibly indicate that Jesus is Michael the archangel?

Nope. But the meaning of Michael =is who is like God, seems to be pretty open and that angel means, in both old and new testament to be a messenger, ambassador I would say I need no more. The statement in
Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the Arch Angel, when contending with the devil, (he disputed about the body of Moses,) did not attempt to bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke":

And I might ask the question who is the Lord?
If I read 1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Correctly, The Lord is still the Father God.

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is true,but "when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, Id say that "all in all" is The Lord.

Are you willing to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Yes. Did you feel I had doubts?

So you think an angel is the Lord?

Please Molly just what are you trying prove.? Angel= messenger,Archangel= foremost angel, Michael= who is like God.
Jesus= Joshua-Jehovah saved Lord= Jehovah - self exsitent one

I'm not trying to prove anything.   A lot of people would agree with you.  I know the Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the archangel Michael and a god with a small g.   That would put him on the same level as Satan.  And, some here do not believe he is God.  That's cool, but I disagree.